J. C. Penney has filed for bankruptcy.

[In The Sticks]

These giant retailers brought this upon themselves.

Ironically, Sears succeeded because it was great at something other stores either never did, or did poorly, over a hundred years ago: Catalog distribution, and sales from the same. When a new technology came along, the internet, Sears was way behind the curve.

Over time, prices at Sears and JCP became ridiculously high, unless you shopped sales and closeout racks. The thinning crowds, even ten years ago, told me that they'd never survive as movers and shakers in the retail world.

Walmart has shown itself to be able to respond to the challenge of Amazon. Their online sales are now doing pretty well. I've tried going that route, and have been satisfied, for the most part.

In retail, you either adapt or die.

I, too, buy lots of stuff online from Walmart. I particularly like their Ship-to-Store option where I can always get free freight and pick my stuff up at the store (where I'm at 2-3 days a week.)

I wonder if the problem with Sears and Penneys isn't something as simple as brand fatigue. Perhaps the current generation of shopper prefers to not shop where their parents shopped. Perhaps they tied their fate too closely to malls, which are dying in general. Although I agree with you that they failed to change.

I believe much of Walmart' success has been that they are generally the only store the broad range of items they carry in many locations where there is little competition. The one 8 miles up the road from me is pretty much the place to shop for my county, the county north, and the county south. That, and they pretty much are stand-alone stores that do not reside in malls, where the failure of adjoining businesses can depress the overall location.

 

[JaniceM]

It's getting messy locally. The only mall that's easily accessible by bus was purchased by some big company that insists nobody these days wants or needs retail, that everybody does their shopping online. From what I've seen, the only retail stores that are left are a couple of shoe stores.. even the food court disappeared.. so they plan to use the 'mall' for various educational services, gym, etc.

 

[RadishRose]

I never did like JC Penney. It was somewhere between good and not-so-good.

It seemed to fail at both better department store quality and lower priced goods at discount stores.

 

[In The Sticks]

I never did like JC Penney. It was somewhere between good and not-so-good.

It seemed to fail at both better department store quality and lower priced goods at discount stores.

It's funny what drives consumer habits.

As I commented before, I purchased just about all my clothes there for years and years.

There were a few drivers of that:
-They carried business attire at a decent price
-They carried casual clothes at a decent price

Because of that, I got to become familiar with the store at the exclusion of others. I could buy most of my attire at one store, and--being a guy who hates shopping--I liked the familiarity of it.

The only time I might have deviated is when Hecht's had a sale. But they were in the same mall, so it was a matter of walking right next door.

But that's a guy's perspective...comfort with the familiar and avoiding the discomfort of "shopping."

 

[RadishRose]

It's funny what drives consumer habits.

As I commented before, I purchased just about all my clothes there for years and years.

There were a few drivers of that:
-They carried business attire at a decent price
-They carried casual clothes at a decent price

Because of that, I got to become familiar with the store at the exclusion of others. I could buy most of my attire at one store, and--being a guy who hates shopping--I liked the familiarity of it.

The only time I might have deviated is when Hecht's had a sale. But they were in the same mall, so it was a matter of walking right next door.

But that's a guy's perspective...comfort with the familiar and avoiding the discomfort of "shopping."

Good point; I never did look at men's apparel at Penney's.

 

[In The Sticks]

Good point; I never did look at men's apparel at Penney's.

Their suits were reasonable. At some point when I made more money, I shifted to Macy's and then the men's suit stores, but Penney's was my default daily wear place.

I used to Binge Buy my clothes. Just about once a year I'd refresh the wardrobe when the big sale would hit.

At the time I was in Corporate Purchasing as my career, so would negotiate just about everything. When I would make a buy like that, I would always approach the department manager with my pile of stuff and ask for the Employee Discount on top of the sale prices. They never said "No." I always got something extra off.

 

[fmdog44]

Nieman Marcus is also filing or fixing to file as well. Anyone notice the changes in return policies? Stores are not willing to take item touched by buyers. There are many changes that are going to be permanent. Many companies are liking the work from home concept. Makes me wonder why it took this pandemic for the idea to pass.

 

[In The Sticks]

Nieman Marcus is also filing or fixing to file as well. Anyone notice the changes in return policies? Stores are not willing to take item touched by buyers. There are many changes that are going to be permanent. Many companies are liking the work from home concept. Makes me wonder why it took this pandemic for the idea to pass.

I've lobbied for that for the longest time, and have wondered why basic economics has not already caused it.

It seems that much of the white collar work is aggregated in such a few congested areas, which drives up the cost of housing, the costs of rent, highly inflated salaries, etc. Yet more and more businesses flock to already-crowded conditions, and employees are force into the "ex-urbs," faced with horrific commutes. You wonder how they can compete with such inflated cost models.

My pre-retirement employer (government contractor) offered Remote Working as an option for the longest time, but you had to promise (in writing) to meet all sorts of requirements, such as having a dedicated work space (no working off of the kitchen table.)

Then around 2010 they were facing a Crisis of Competing. They offer high-end services and charged high-end prices when the government started buying on price-only. In order to get their rates down, they started shedding real estate. At that time, if you did not manage people, you no longer had an office...you were required to work from home (even if it meant using the kitchen table.) The workforce had already been somewhat scattered when they had already required people to work from the office nearest home and not necessarily where their boss worked (this caused a lot of bending the rules because the aggressive career builders wanted to be at HQ, where all the power resided.)

At that time, a bunch of us got permission to relocate and REALLY worked remotely. One woman kept her DC job after she moved to South Africa following her husband's work! I moved 100 miles away to my current country location, knowing I had to remain somewhat close so attending the occasional meeting was not too inconvenient. Others moved to other states. If I had not been at the end of my career, I would have stayed closer to HQ.

The main problem that arose was on-boarding new hires. For those of us who already knew the ins & outs, remote working was no big deal. Being a new hire had its challenges. There was minimal training, and for the first few months, it's tough finding a substitute for being able to walk up to the guy sitting next to you to get guidance. The degree to which a new hire is at a disadvantage depends on the given employer.

The funny thing was that the fear that people would not put in a full day actually turned out to be far from reality. When I worked from home, I would get up early, check my work emails, address any crises, then make breakfast/have coffee. After dinner, I'd check my work emails before going to bed, addressing any crises. Lots of us did the same thing. There was this blurring of work/home some detested, while others did not mind. I chalk the acceptance up to our living our personal lives in front of a keyboard. Work & personal boundaries are blurred.

 

[JaniceM]

Well, from what I've seen during the last few years, virtually all the department stores are closing, one after another.

 

[oldmontana]

Your next call should have been:

Me: Hello credit card company, I want to dispute a charge.

Talking about credit cards and J C Penney.

I am so old that I was with Penney's when J C Penney died...he was against credit cards. Until he died Penney's did not have credit cards. As soon as he dies we had a all out drive to get Penny credit cards to our customers...small tables in store iles to fill out applications.

Penney's had many stores in smaller communities.....no more. Penney's carried work clothing like bib overalls, know they do not.

 

[Grampa Don]

They are adapting. Now the trend is order online and pick it up at the store. I notice when I shop for something online at Walmart there are certain items not available in the store.

I tried the Walmart store pickup a couple times. But, our Walmart is huge and the parking lot packed. The pickup location is diagonally opposite the store entrance. It's a long walk to save a few bucks. So, I combine things to reach the $35 free delivery and they are on my porch in a couple days.

Walmart has copied the Amazon and Ebay approach. Their website offers many items from other businesses. I can usually get stuff for better prices than Amazon, and it's just as easy to do.

Don

 

[In The Sticks]

I tried the Walmart store pickup a couple times. But, our Walmart is huge and the parking lot packed. The pickup location is diagonally opposite the store entrance. It's a long walk to save a few bucks. So, I combine things to reach the $35 free delivery and they are on my porch in a couple days.

Walmart has copied the Amazon and Ebay approach. Their website offers many items from other businesses. I can usually get stuff for better prices than Amazon, and it's just as easy to do.

Don

That pickup location stinks. My Walmart has entrances at either end, although the pickup one is not what you would consider to be the primary entrance. It's just a wide and there are carts available there, but it's the opposite end of the grocery section...you're at the toys/music/automotive/fishing end of the store.

The only knock I have with Walmart's site (and Amazon might have this issue) is that they do not identify the goods that ship directly from China. EBay specifically states where the good ship from (although "Made In XXX" is another story), to the extent the sellers are honest.

 

[In The Sticks]

Talking about credit cards and J C Penney.

I am so old that I was with Penney's when J C Penney died...he was against credit cards. Until he died Penney's did not have credit cards. As soon as he dies we had a all out drive to get Penny credit cards to our customers...small tables in store iles to fill out applications.

Penney's had many stores in smaller communities.....no more. Penney's carried work clothing like bib overalls, know they do not.

I'll tell you a funny story since you were in the business.

My dad (born in 1919) worked for Murhpys from the time he was a teenager until his death in 1975. He managed stores in Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Virginia. He left the store in Arlington VA around 1966 or so and moved to Richmond, VA.

I imagine that Penneys was as Murphys back then: his own buyers, payroll dept, accounts payable folks, a complete business infrastructure. He had way more than cashiers and stock clerks working for him.

So one evening around 2005 I'm sitting at Bob Evan's eating dinner, when the woman at the table next to me strikes up a conversation (she was with her husband, her adult daughter about my age and HER husband.) I'm one of those people who folks will do that with...don't know why. I still remember, she asked me if I spoke Polish! It was so random, but I reminded her of someone.

So anyway, we got to talking about stuff, and somehow my dad and his life with Murphys came up, and we discovered that the woman's other daughter worked from my father when she was a teenager!!!

As I've often said, "All industries are Mayberry." But retail even more so.

 

[Camper6]

I tried the Walmart store pickup a couple times. But, our Walmart is huge and the parking lot packed. The pickup location is diagonally opposite the store entrance. It's a long walk to save a few bucks. So, I combine things to reach the $35 free delivery and they are on my porch in a couple days.

Walmart has copied the Amazon and Ebay approach. Their website offers many items from other businesses. I can usually get stuff for better prices than Amazon, and it's just as easy to do.

Don

I'm glad to hear that. I haven't tried it yet. Thanks.

 

[Fyrefox]

How the mighty have fallen! I can remember when almost every mall included a Sears, Montgomery Ward, and Penneys as anchor stores. In their heyday in perhaps the 1980's, going to a mall was a comprehensive and entertaining experience. You could shop, eat at a food court, and even see a movie. They might have a craft show going on, seasonal festivities, musical performances, or "sidewalk sales," all in climate-controlled comfort...I really miss those days. Today, malls still open are often ghost towns with many empty store fronts and only a few odd specialty stores remaining. Going to Walmart or buying on line just isn't the same. It's sad, really...

 

[Pappy]

JCPenney, the department store helping us find last-minute khakis for the band concert for 118 years, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection Friday night.

The company secured $900 million in bankruptcy financing. It'll get the first half in June, but it must meet requirements set by lenders by mid-July to get the rest—otherwise, it'll pursue a sale.

• The plan for JCPenney: Reduce its store footprint, shave down $4.9 billion in debt, and potentially split into two: JCP the retailer and a real estate investment trust.

What happened?
“This is absolutely about the coronavirus, this is about a governmental shutdown and about us all being in video chat for this,” an attorney from law firm Kirkland & Ellis said during a virtual court hearing this weekend.

But many analysts think JCPenney’s path to Chapter 11 was inevitable. The company has botched turnarounds, struggled to break its dependence on the shopping mall, and failed to innovate in the e-commerce era.

Zoom out: Macy’s, Brooks Brothers, or Belk could follow JCPenney into bankruptcy. And for all questions you might have about the b-word, we put together a quick and easy guide to bankruptcy.

 

[Marie5656]

Here is a list of the stores JC Penny is closing state by state Penny closing

 

[Camper6]

I don't know anything about the retail business, yet I knew it was not "if", but "when" Penny's was going to declare bankruptcy. I thought it was headed for the trash heap, when they stopped selling furniture, appliances, etc, and mainly became a clothing store. That was in the 1980s. The store came in a wave of "modern" retailing- malls. And I guess they're going out with them.
I don't know where the next trend in retail is going. There are some real problems with on line sales. The obvious is that you can't examine the product. How do you know a bath towel is nice fluffy one, or just glorified toilet paper?

The people who order stuff online are experts at ordering and returning stuff. Towel not fluffy? Send it back. Ordering shoes and don't know if they fit? Order two pair and send one back.
Re towels. I won't buy towels that have an applique design. I just want plain. Those designs don't absorb and they scratch.

 

[Pappy]

This morning there was a list of stores closing. Ours wasn’t on the list, yet. Lots In NY state.

 

[jujube]

For years, the only reason I've set foot in a JCPenny is because it's easier to find a parking space outside that store than any other place at the mall. That is a "tell" for sure.