Living only on social security

Brookswood said:
How is that fair to all the people who paid into SS over their working lifetime?

this is another scheme to take from those who put in the money and give it to those who did not, and somehow that is supposed to be fair. I don’t get it.
Click to expand...
I only receive 40% of my SS that I earned because I have a 15 year pension from a state that didn’t pay into SS. So half of my career I paid in. Without WEP I would get around 1k SS per month instead of 455. I would only be getting my earned benefits and nothing more.
 

Teacher Terry said:
I only receive 40% of my SS that I earned because I have a 15 year pension from a state that didn’t pay into SS. So half of my career I paid in. Without WEP I would get around 1k SS per month instead of 455. I would only be getting my earned benefits and nothing more.
Click to expand...
SS benefits are proportionately less generous as lifetime earning amounts increase. If SS records show someone only worked 15 years and didn't earn much, SS's (generous toward low earners) math likely shows that person could get $1000/month in SS benefits.

However, WEP means SS hasn't looked at earnings in a vacuum since 1983. Public pension benefits are also considered lest people take advantage of SS's generous to low earners policy while also dipping from another publicly funded old age pension plan.

TT, if you're getting $1000-$1500 (or more) per month in school pension benefits (including perks of some kind) for a 15 year stint of teaching, plus $455 from SS, that's not an bad deal, especially if you took SS at 66 or earlier. Most people do paid work for longer than 30 years before retiring.

Like you, I stopped working for several years when my children were born, then worked part time throughout their school years. My old SS statements show I'd worked 43 years, including HS & college part-time jobs and ten years as a reasonably well paid professional, by the time I filed for SS seven years ago at age 65. (I've now worked and paid SS taxes for 50 years.)

I received benefits of $1610/month-ish back then. (Because I've continued to work and pay into SS, my benefit base has bumped a little bit, plus I've gotten COLA increases, so that $1610 has gone up.)

My point: contributing to SS for 15 years and receiving $455/month in benefits for that amount of time isn't out of whack. $1000 would be, particularly if you weren't working as a highly paid professional, and especially because you worked another 15 years for another publicly funded pension.

SS's policy of heavier payments for those at the lowest end of the earnings scale may make it seem like you're being screwed, but you're actually not. If I received SS benefits in proportion to what you're hoping for, my monthly check would nearly triple.

On an aside: As was true of many couples in our generation, my husband contributed to SS steadily throughout and was a higher earner. We semi-retired when I turned 65, took my benefits, but delayed his SS until he turned 70. His higher earnings and the 8% bonus per year for delaying those benefits mean his benefits are roughly double mine, so our combined monthly SS is significant.

We saved diligently for retirement because we had no pensions besides SS and continue working part-time to this day.
 

dusty said:
There is a very large Victorian house just an hour away from me here in CNY

Skaneateles​

in Skaneateles that rents rooms to seniors only. The rooms are beautifully decorated. There is a private bath for each room. Kitchen rights with your own space inside 2 refriderators, use of the stove/oven.



There is a cook who prepares the noon meal which is like an evening meal. She cooks very well and the menu is varied and checked for food allergies with each resident. Evening meal and breakfast are yours to fix. There is a large living room with lots of seating options, a large tv and there is a seperate room for quiet times w/o tv.

I interviewed to move there 2 years ago but she only had a second story. She told me the people were all very nice and got along well.

I would love to find several like minded people for some kind of group living w/o the others being in your space all the time. Do any of you think this kind of living arrangement is a good thing?
Click to expand...
I would love that sort of arrangement anywhere, but especially in Skaneateles. It's so beautiful. I grew up in nearby Syracuse.
 
Teacher Terry said:
I only receive 40% of my SS that I earned because I have a 15 year pension from a state that didn’t pay into SS. So half of my career I paid in. Without WEP I would get around 1k SS per month instead of 455. I would only be getting my earned benefits and nothing more.
Click to expand...
The SS system is rigged to pay a larger percentage to low income people. Because you paid nothing into the SS system for 15 years (while you were earning a pension that is designed to make up for that) you look more like a lower income person to SS. WEP simply adjusts for that and you are treated for what you are: a person who earned some SS but also had a SS substitute benefit. In other words, you SS benefit is paid based upon being the higher earning person you are, rather than the lower earning person you look like, but aren’t.

That’s how the system works. Besides for 15 years you took home more money than most of us with similar earnings would have done because you did not pay into SS. That’s a nice thing, right?

Rest assured you are being treated fairly compared to people who made the same amount that you did but paid into SS for their entire earning period.

I see the Starsong has made the same argument, better than I did.
 
Last edited:
I know of several people who live OK on SS only. All of them have a friends or relatives who provided them with free room and board. Sometimes it’s in return for services rendered, such as helping maintain the property, babysitting the small children, etc. It can be done but not in a high cost of living area. The numbers don’t work well in areas such as Santa Barbara or many big coastal cities and states. OTOH, a person can find cheaper living in the mid-west. It’s still tough though unless your have that benefactor.
 
Brookswood said:
The SS system is rigged to pay a larger percentage to low income people. Because you paid nothing into the SS system for 15 years (while you were earning a pension that is designed to make up for that) you look more like a lower income person to SS. WEP simply adjusts for that and you are treated for what you are: a person who earned some SS but also had a SS substitute benefit. In other words, you SS benefit is paid based upon being the higher earning person you are, rather than the lower earning person you look like, but aren’t.

That’s how the system works. Besides for 15 years you took home more money than most of us with similar earnings would have done because you did not pay into SS. That’s a nice thing, right?

Rest assured you are being treated fairly compared to people who made the same amount that you did but paid into SS for their entire earning period.

I see the Starsong has made the same argument, better than I did.
Click to expand...
Ah, but yours was so much more succinct!
 
Brookswood said:
The SS system is rigged to pay a larger percentage to low income people. Because you paid nothing into the SS system for 15 years (while you were earning a pension that is designed to make up for that) you look more like a lower income person to SS. WEP simply adjusts for that and you are treated for what you are: a person who earned some SS but also had a SS substitute benefit. In other words, you SS benefit is paid based upon being the higher earning person you are, rather than the lower earning person you look like, but aren’t.

That’s how the system works. Besides for 15 years you took home more money than most of us with similar earnings would have done because you did not pay into SS. That’s a nice thing, right?

Rest assured you are being treated fairly compared to people who made the same amount that you did but paid into SS for their entire earning period.

I see the Starsong has made the same argument, better than I did.
Click to expand...
It’s fair for people that had 30 years not paying into SS and had low paying jobs in high school and college and look like low earners. It’s not fair for people like me that split their careers. It actually only affects 3 million people I read so correcting the injustice won’t be that costly.
 
I can see being disappointed about losing a windfall but it isn't an injustice.

I'll probably end up being taxed on 100% of my Social Security at a rate of 28%. Sure, I'd like to get that 28% back but it isn't a matter of justice. We have progressive taxation for a reason. I just hope it doesn't push my Medicare Part B premiums to double the rate most people pay. It depends on whether the 2017 tax cuts are allowed to expire after 2025 by the current administration.

Things get complicated for those with pensions, that's just how it is. RMDs for those with deferred compensation accounts like 401(k), 403(b), 457, etc. are another costly wrinkle.
 
dilettante said:
I can see being disappointed about losing a windfall but it isn't an injustice.

I'll probably end up being taxed on 100% of my Social Security at a rate of 28%. Sure, I'd like to get that 28% back but it isn't a matter of justice. We have progressive taxation for a reason. I just hope it doesn't push my Medicare Part B premiums to double the rate most people pay. It depends on whether the 2017 tax cuts are allowed to expire after 2025 by the current administration.

Things get complicated for those with pensions, that's just how it is. RMDs for those with deferred compensation accounts like 401(k), 403(b), 457, etc. are another costly wrinkle.
Click to expand...
I’m not looking for a windfall. I would like the full SS that I earned. I pay taxes on my pension and fully expect to. I also pay taxes on my consulting income and my deferred compensation that I saved while a state employee. For the first time some republicans are in favor of repealing WEP and I’m hopeful.
 
Teacher Terry said:
It’s fair for people that had 30 years not paying into SS and had low paying jobs in high school and college and look like low earners. It’s not fair for people like me that split their careers. It actually only affects 3 million people I read so correcting the injustice won’t be that costly.
Click to expand...
Most would agree that paying into SS for 15 years shouldn't yield $1000 per month in benefits for life, especially when you're receiving another public pension.

Legislators may eventually agree to some WEP adjustments, but if it's repealed entirely the news stories will swiftly publicize otrageous combined sums being awarded to double-dippers.

I sure remember those stories from before1983 and am guessing many others here do, too.
 
StarSong said:
Most would agree that paying into SS for 15 years shouldn't yield $1000 per month in benefits for life, especially when you're receiving another public pension.

Legislators may eventually agree to some WEP adjustments, but if it's repealed entirely the news stories will swiftly publicize otrageous combined sums being awarded to double-dippers.

I sure remember those stories from before1983 and am guessing many others here do, too.
Click to expand...
My guess is that it should be weighted more fairly by the number of years you had in a public pension. Most of my 15 years in SS were professional pay after obtaining my first graduate degree. They weren’t low paying jobs. So I realized that I didn’t include my consulting years that paid into SS so I have 19.

In the end it doesn’t matter what any of us think but what actually happens. In the past the republicans weren’t on board and now some finally are.
 
Last edited:
Teacher Terry said:
My guess is that it should be weighted more fairly by the number of years you had in a public pension.
Click to expand...
I'm still mystified by this point.

The benefits computation is very well known and always has been published. It was weighted to assist very low earners as a form of social welfare, and that's what double-dippers had been exploiting. GPO and WEP were implemented to plug those loopholes and help keep Social Security solvent.

Why should public pension contributions be taken into account at all? It feels like saying that you deserve to have free money deposited to your savings account or something.

Nothing says you couldn't contribute to both a pension and FICA. That came down to your choice of employer and how much income you wanted to spend as you went instead of saving toward retirement. The years you didn't pay into FICA you got to take that money home or put it into tax-deferred accounts.

You already got your money.

As for politics, don't be confused by Party labels. There is a significant realignment under way and the old labels represent different sets of constituencies now.
 
dilettante said:
I'm still mystified by this point.

The benefits computation is very well known and always has been published. It was weighted to assist very low earners as a form of social welfare, and that's what double-dippers had been exploiting. GPO and WEP were implemented to plug those loopholes and help keep Social Security solvent.

Why should public pension contributions be taken into account at all? It feels like saying that you deserve to have free money deposited to your savings account or something.

Nothing says you couldn't contribute to both a pension and FICA. That came down to your choice of employer and how much income you wanted to spend as you went instead of saving toward retirement. The years you didn't pay into FICA you got to take that money home or put it into tax-deferred accounts.

You already got your money.

As for politics, don't be confused by Party labels. There is a significant realignment under way and the old labels represent different sets of constituencies now.
Click to expand...
I had to contribute a significant amount of my pay to my pension and I saved money in deferred compensation. When I was interviewing with 10 different states after graduate school I had no idea that a few states didn’t contribute to SS. I found out after moving my family across the country and getting my first check. I went to payroll thinking they made a mistake.

Wep is fair to people with 30 years in a state pension but not people that split their careers. I don’t know why some people find this difficult to understand. Some people are just bitter and argumentative and I am no longer wasting my time trying to explain this situation.
 
As far as I can tell the only point of disagreement is about what is "fair."

You want to take from people who paid in fully and get a bigger share of the pie for yourself than what you earned. In this case the share you paid in was smaller due to a career decision you made.

Low-wage workers without a pension get a special dispensation, a form of welfare. That's what WEP & GPO took away from double-dippers who do have government pensions.

I don't know how to make the point clearer. You made your bed.

We all make mistakes. Due to a career decision I lost $60,000 in banked sick leave hours. I don't like it, but at least it was earned so I think I have a bigger gripe.
 
I think the why of some people living only on Social Security has many factors.I think compassion for them probably best describes how I feel.

No doubt in my mind we could have been in that same situation. Except for luck as in the time we were living in & a willingness to move to where job opportunities were better made a difference for us.

This needs some explanation
"luck as in the time we were living"
Both my wife & I had jobs where pensions were in place. Then conversion to 401k's came into play. Then with the help of a fidelity agent the 401k's were converted into Traditional IRA's & Rollover IRA's.

I consider us lucky for everything to fall into place for us.
 
Knight said:
I think the why of some people living only on Social Security has many factors.I think compassion for them probably best describes how I feel.

No doubt in my mind we could have been in that same situation. Except for luck as in the time we were living in & a willingness to move to where job opportunities were better made a difference for us.

This needs some explanation
"luck as in the time we were living"
Both my wife & I had jobs where pensions were in place. Then conversion to 401k's came into play. Then with the help of a fidelity agent the 401k's were converted into Traditional IRA's & Rollover IRA's.

I consider us lucky for everything to fall into place for us.
Click to expand...
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” 😉
 
Well I certainly feel for those folks. It is easy to throw stones and say they should of made better choices. But sometimes better choices are frowned upon by society. For my part i will help when i can.
 
gruntlabor said:
For sure, but the result of lack of preparedness is not true bad luck, I think it's bad luck to believe that. Bad luck is like being born dead (as opposed to the good luck of winning the lottery).
Click to expand...
Being born dead certainly limits your options. 😉

I understand what you are saying about luck, good or bad, being out of our control but I don’t think that luck is something that we should rely on or use as an excuse.

At this point in our lives all any of us can do is make as comfortable a life as we can with the resources that we have.

It probably wouldn’t hurt to buy a lottery ticket every now and then but I wouldn’t bet the rent money.
 
dusty said:
There is a very large Victorian house just an hour away from me here in CNY

Skaneateles​

in Skaneateles that rents rooms to seniors only. The rooms are beautifully decorated. There is a private bath for each room. Kitchen rights with your own space inside 2 refriderators, use of the stove/oven.



There is a cook who prepares the noon meal which is like an evening meal. She cooks very well and the menu is varied and checked for food allergies with each resident. Evening meal and breakfast are yours to fix. There is a large living room with lots of seating options, a large tv and there is a seperate room for quiet times w/o tv.

I interviewed to move there 2 years ago but she only had a second story. She told me the people were all very nice and got along well.

I would love to find several like minded people for some kind of group living w/o the others being in your space all the time. Do any of you think this kind of living arrangement is a good thing?
Click to expand...
i was working in auburn for a while and staying in scaneateles … my wife got so sick from the water .

the lake is so pure that little filtering or coodie killing is done …being used to heavily processed nyc water , she had stomach issues here.

scaneateles was beautiful but auburn was pretty much dumpy looking
 

Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top