Moca Montreal cognitive test

T

Tara

New Member
I might have to take the MOCA Montreal cognitive test. I am scared to death. I am a 77 yr old lady.
That is the test trump took. It has 5 words at the beginning to remember and they are asked again at the end.
That is after doing numbers and words spelled backwards.

How can any one. remember 5 words at the end? I cannot do it. If you cannot remember.
, they say you have mild cognitive impairment.
 

As part of my job I have done these MOCA tests on many people.

You don't have to get every question right to be considered normal cognitive ability - the total is 30 and anything over 25 is within range of normal
Mild cognitive impairment is only scoring under 25 - but even then, a total diagnosis wouldn't be made on MOCA alone, it is just one tool in the bag.
The 5 words are actually about half way through - but many people don't remember all of them, that's OK.
 
Testing is a way of life in the working world, isn't it ? UPS has as one of it's requirements, for their delivery driver positions, that the applicants MUST be able to lift and carry a fifty pound ( 22 kilogram ) box for a distance of 50 feet. Some applicants objected that this was too hard to do. UPS said they wouldn't hire any one who couldn't do the task. I agree with the company.

Personal testing as a senior ? Perhaps as a part of a driver license retest at a specific age point. I see many seniors driving here in Ontario who are unsafe drivers and dangerous to other road users. My wife just turned 80, and she had to attend a Ministry of Transport office to write the 33 question "drivers hand book quiz ". A room full of 80 year olds, at least 100 of them. About a third of the room failed the test, scoring less than 50 percent. Those who failed the written test were then scheduled for an actual road test with a certified Examiner within 30 days. If they fail the 30 minute road test, their Ontario D.L. is revoked permanently.

In Ontario EVERY Medical Doctor has the legal requirement to report persons, of any age, who the Doctor thinks MAY be an unsafe driver due to either medical or mental illness , to the Ministry of Transport, for investigation. The MTO then requires the individual to attend a in person interview to discuss their ability to drive safely on our roads. That meeting may result in a DL suspension due to medical reasons such as stroke, epilepsy or syncope.

Jimb.
 
My impression from seeing tests like these in movies is that they are terrible and not accurate.
For example someone asking me to repeat 5 words like leg, cotton, school, tomato, white that had no
meaning to me would be boring. There would be no context and I'd have no interest in remembering them.

There was a world champion chess player by the name of Jose Raul Capablanca who had a philosophy
of only remembering important things, and of making no effort to remember things that had no importance.
His reasoning was that humans have a limited capacity to remember, thus filling up the memory with nonsense
would leave no room for things of importance.

I feel that he was on the right track, have found that I tend to do the same thing, and feel that most people do this.
For example when there's something you're highly interested in, then you're more likely to remember details about it.
But things that have no interest for you, are obviously not going to be interesting. Thus they are pointless to remember.

If at the end of the test they asked me the 5 words, I'd tell them; "I purposely forgot them, don't remember what
they were and don't care." Actually I wouldn't go anywhere that would try to give me such a dumb and meaningless test.

On the other hand, I watched a 5k race <-- this past weekend, and can recite the 1k splits from that race quite easily.

The 5k race <--
Post race interview <--
 
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John cycling said:
For example someone asking me to repeat 5 words like leg, cotton, school, tomato, white that had no
meaning to me would be boring.
Click to expand...
You know what came to my mind with those words? This famous picture of a sweet young girl on the first day of integration to a school in 1952.
In most pictures you can see her thin little legs under her white cotton dress as she goes up the steps to the school. The tomato was probably in the hands of that ugly woman behind her.



elizabeth-eckford.jpg
 
Don't worry about the MOCA test. I've taken it, or similar tests, a few times. The results don't determine a specific issue, but rather provide some insight into what you can remember and what you might struggle with. When I took it about 10 years ago, I scored 26 and missed a few things. Remember, the test doesn't change who you are—it's just a tool to help understand your memory. Think of it as a conversation with your healthcare provider. No need to be afraid. Let us know how it goes...
 
Della said:
You know what came to my mind with those words? This famous picture of a sweet young girl on the first day of integration to a school in 1952.
In most pictures you can see her thin little legs under her white cotton dress as she goes up the steps to the school. The tomato was probably in the hands of that ugly woman behind her.



elizabeth-eckford.jpg
Click to expand...
She should never have been subjected to that abuse!
 
iksentrik said:
Don't worry about the MOCA test. I've taken it, or similar tests, a few times. The results don't determine a specific issue, but rather provide some insight into what you can remember and what you might struggle with. When I took it about 10 years ago, I scored 26 and missed a few things. Remember, the test doesn't change who you are—it's just a tool to help understand your memory. Think of it as a conversation with your healthcare provider. No need to be afraid. Let us know how it goes...
Click to expand...
I recently spent over four weeks in hospitals. On the first day, at the beginning of our conversation, the nurse asked me to note and remember three words: Sock Blue Bed. At the end of our talk she asked me to recite them. I couldn't. No worries, she says. Next nurse repeats the same thing, and this time by God I ace it. Next nurse, next nurse, every day until
"Sharp as a tack," somebody said.
"Memorized," I said.
 
Della said:
Good work Gruntlabor! I've heard the common dementia test question is "name all your grade school teachers." For the life of me, I can't remember anything about my second grade teacher but her painful ruler. I'm going to find out her name and then memorize the whole list.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I didn't think my longer term memory was a problem, but I only remember grade 2,3,4 teachers. 1, 5, 6,7,8 are all a blur.
 
John cycling said:
My impression from seeing tests like these in movies is that they are terrible and not accurate.
For example someone asking me to repeat 5 words like leg, cotton, school, tomato, white that had no
meaning to me would be boring. There would be no context and I'd have no interest in remembering them.
Click to expand...

My impression is from actually doing them on people many times, not seeing them in movies - where obviously they would be over dramatised

of course people remember things that interest them - but that isnt the point.
Remembering as many as you can of the 5 random words for about 5 minutes is part of the test. Only part of it and the test is only part of screening or wider investigations (depending why it is being done)

Like you say, you could refuse to do the test or deliberately not answer questions - but why would you do that?
 
9
Click to expand...
January said:
As part of my job I have done these MOCA tests on many people.

You don't have to get every question right to be considered normal cognitive ability - the total is 30 and anything over 25 is within range of normal
Mild cognitive impairment is only scoring under 25 - but even then, a total diagnosis wouldn't be made on MOCA alone, it is just one tool in the bag.
The 5 words are actually about half way through - but many people don't remember all of them, that's OK.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you so much. I am taking these diagnostic tests to disprove a bad wrong report from the psychologist from
COSA. The county office for services for the aging. I am 77. I was a senior theft victim in online banking and they did not think I
i could handle my money

If I do not pass these tests the court will give me a guardian. And they are going to compare the 2 reports to the judge in court. It could be embarrassing. I am in independent living now.

My only worry is how to do the word recall. I am ,lucky to remember 2 words.
I do not want a brain scan or anything. I do not have any real memory problems.


.
 
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Tara said:
If I do not pass these tests the court will give me a guardian.
Click to expand...
There's actually a movie about this called "I Care A Lot," but the reality is much worse than the movie.
Guardianship is a common pharma-chemical company scam to steal everything seniors own and to keep it for themselves.
What they do is testify to get the court to appoint themselves as the guardians. Then they take everything that you've ever had.

My advice is to stay as far away from them as possible, and don't acquiesce to any of their bogus testing.
Meanwhile get as many friends and advocates as possible to testify in your behalf in the court, if it comes to that.

One thing you must do to protect yourself is to appoint your own responsible guardians in advance.
This way you can help to avoid having the crooked cheating chemical cartel charlatans from appointing themselves.
 
Last edited:
Tara said:
Thank you so much. I am taking these diagnostic tests to disprove a bad wrong report from the psychologist from
COSA. The county office for services for the aging. I am 77. I was a senior theft victim in online banking and they did not think I
i could handle my money

If I do not pass these tests the court will give me a guardian. And they are going to compare the 2 reports to the judge in court. It could be embarrassing. I am in independent living now.

My only worry is how to do the word recall. I am ,lucky to remember 2 words.
I do not want a brain scan or anything. I do not have any real memory problems.


.
Click to expand...
I can't comment on your guardianship system - but MOCA is used internationally.

Many people don't remember all the words, as mentioned before you don't have to get everything right to be considered normal cognitive ability.
 
John is absolutely correct that you should appoint your own guardian in advance should you ever need it. The movie he mentioned is a true horrible story about professional guardians taking away senior’s rights who were not cognitively impaired and stealing all their money.

I am a former social worker and unfortunately depending on the state you live in this can happen. Nevada changed some of their laws once the movie came out.
 
jimintoronto said:
Testing is a way of life in the working world, isn't it ? UPS has as one of it's requirements, for their delivery driver positions, that the applicants MUST be able to lift and carry a fifty pound ( 22 kilogram ) box for a distance of 50 feet. Some applicants objected that this was too hard to do. UPS said they wouldn't hire any one who couldn't do the task. I agree with the company.

Personal testing as a senior ? Perhaps as a part of a driver license retest at a specific age point. I see many seniors driving here in Ontario who are unsafe drivers and dangerous to other road users. My wife just turned 80, and she had to attend a Ministry of Transport office to write the 33 question "drivers hand book quiz ". A room full of 80 year olds, at least 100 of them. About a third of the room failed the test, scoring less than 50 percent. Those who failed the written test were then scheduled for an actual road test with a certified Examiner within 30 days. If they fail the 30 minute road test, their Ontario D.L. is revoked permanently.

In Ontario EVERY Medical Doctor has the legal requirement to report persons, of any age, who the Doctor thinks MAY be an unsafe driver due to either medical or mental illness , to the Ministry of Transport, for investigation. The MTO then requires the individual to attend a in person interview to discuss their ability to drive safely on our roads. That meeting may result in a DL suspension due to medical reasons such as stroke, epilepsy or syncope.

Jimb.
Click to expand...
Once again, Canada wins a Common Sense Prize. I don't think we don't have anything like that in the States. They do require a vision test at every renewal, but according to this, no written test: At What Age Do Seniors Have To Take A Driving Test?

I would be concerned if an elder could not pass the written test since they have been driving for 60 years by then and you would think they practice the rules of the road for at least most of those 60 years.

I don't think we should make doctors into reporters though. They have enough to do and many young doctors cannot tell the difference between trauma confusion, trauma responses, depression, just plain TIRED and cognitive impairment. Not all doctors are psychologists, right?

Many young people in general simply do not know "the trouble I have seen". From that old spiritual,
"Nobody knows the trouble I've seen. Nobody knows but Jesus..." (Written in 1867 by a former slave.)

Lots of older people, especially if they have worked as First Responders or in serious journalism, have seen buckets of trauma. Government workers in some fields, therapists and social workers also have a lifetime of trauma with them.

Younger doctors - do they know how trauma responses manifest in a person's behavior at all times? I highly doubt it. So don't force them to be narcs.

If they want to REFER the elder to a PSYCHIATRIST for further testing, then FINE. But don't expect the DMV to be the arbiter.
 
John cycling said:
My impression from seeing tests like these in movies is that they are terrible and not accurate.
For example someone asking me to repeat 5 words like leg, cotton, school, tomato, white that had no
meaning to me would be boring. There would be no context and I'd have no interest in remembering them.

There was a world champion chess player by the name of Jose Raul Capablanca who had a philosophy
of only remembering important things, and of making no effort to remember things that had no importance.
His reasoning was that humans have a limited capacity to remember, thus filling up the memory with nonsense
would leave no room for things of importance.

I feel that he was on the right track, have found that I tend to do the same thing, and feel that most people do this.
For example when there's something you're highly interested in, then you're more likely to remember details about it.
But things that have no interest for you, are obviously not going to be interesting. Thus they are pointless to remember.

If at the end of the test they asked me the 5 words, I'd tell them; "I purposely forgot them, don't remember what
they were and don't care." Actually I wouldn't go anywhere that would try to give me such a dumb and meaningless test.

On the other hand, I watched a 5k race <-- this past weekend, and can recite the 1k splits from that race quite easily.

The 5k race <--
Post race interview <--
Click to expand...
I would paint a picture in my head. The stranger the better. How about a giant tomato on a white school with cotton ball bushes and a mannequin leg on the lawn?
 


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