Morality vs obedience?

Ronni

Ronni

Well-known Member
Location
Nashville TN
Thoughts too big for this early in the morning PLUS without benefit of more than a gulp of coffee. 😣

"Morality is doing what's right regardless of what you're told, Religion/obedience/dogma is doing what you're told regardless of what's right."

Apparently, the reason humans struggle emotionally to find equitable solutions to things is the result of "activity in the region of the brain called the insular cortex, or insula, which is also the seat of emotional reactions." OK.

So, if that's true, if the brain has a tendency to such a strong reaction to unfairness, seems like that response/reaction is a product of evolution even more than training or teaching....iow it's not like it's some complicated that we learn or are taught over time.

That emotional response drives folks to seek fairness and equity in the face of injustice and inequity. And THAT would indicate that humans have morals not because of the teachings of religion or parents or schools or anyone else who is in a position of influence. Nope. Seems like humans have morals because that's the way we evolved, that's the way our brains were shaped over time.

Hmm. OK. Gonna go finish my coffee now then decide whether or not I’m full of đŸ’©
 

Yes, I agree we have an innate sense of right and wrong. And that innate sense is found throughout our species, regardless of religious ideation. Religion more or less codifies those innate senses. While our sense of right and wrong is the "better angels" of our nature, we can over run it any time we want. We also have the innate senses of greed, envy, and other less angelic attributes. We're complicated critters.
 
Religion typically enters into discussion about right & wrong or morals.

When I think about religion being the basis for right & wrong/morals. I think about the various tribes & cultures around the world that had the concept of right & wrong/morals without the benefit of being exposed to religion. So I agree with fuzzybuddy we have an innate sense of right and wrong. The caveat to that is not everyone follows that sense.
 
Lc jones said:
I utilize the Bible as my instructional manual for what is right and wrong.
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Not exactly what I consider right teachings

Psalm 137:9
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!

1 Samuel 15:2-3
Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

A lot more but for example sake those will suffice.
 
I've still got a 'still small voice' (1 Kings 19:11-13) runnin' around in this ol' decrepit bean

It has been my absolute guide, especially in grey instances of question

Most times it sez 'be nice....for nice's sake'

Has yet to fail me

Forgetting self helps
.....and knowing there is little fairness, little equity, in this world

But, when it shows, well that's a treasure
 
Knight said:
Not exactly what I consider right teachings

Psalm 137:9
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!

1 Samuel 15:2-3
Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

A lot more but for example sake those will suffice.
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I stand by what I have stated.
 
“Taking the high road” is another way of saying do the right thing.

That’s what guides me in moments of indecision....that, and do unto others as you would have them do in to you.
Treating others the way I would want to be treated may sound simplistic, but it has helped me past those moments of indecision countless times.
 
fmdog44 said:
Beats me why anyone has to turn to a bible or other written works to decide right from wrong.
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Ask a lawyer, they do it all the time.

Makes me wonder if one still is "Sworn in" in a court of law before testifying.

Which begs the question, on what do we base our laws? And if it is survival of the fittest, as some believe, why have laws at all? :unsure:
 
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Most people know right from wrong, they choose to work harder to put one over on someone else.
In line at a coffee shop I saw a man drop a 5 dollar bill. I picked it up and called his attention to it , giving it back to him. Just me being me. The two ladies with him went after him while I was ordering my coffee etc. He insisted on paying for my order. He opened the door for the ladies after they waved and smiled to me. Then shot me a glare that was very clear. It had not been his idea to compensate for my honesty.
I did not give him his money for reward, I was being me.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Yes, I agree we have an innate sense of right and wrong. And that innate sense is found throughout our species, regardless of religious ideation. Religion more or less codifies those innate senses. While our sense of right and wrong is the "better angels" of our nature, we can over run it any time we want. We also have the innate senses of greed, envy, and other less angelic attributes. We're complicated critters.
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We may be complicated, but thankfully we are also predictable.
 
Lc jones said:
As I said before the Bible is my life instruction manual I love God above all else and I love my neighbor as myself.
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There is a lot that is wrong in the Bible the god character is evil. Hopefully it is a figment of the imagination of the authors.
 
Gardenlover said:
Ask a lawyer, they do it all the time.

Makes me wonder if one still is "Sworn in" in a court of law before testifying.

Which begs the question, on what do we base our laws? And if it is survival of the fittest, as some believe, why have laws at all? :unsure:
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“Makes me wonder if one still is “Sworn in” in a court of law before testifying.” -Quote-
One what? Lawyer? Anyone that gives testimony in a court of law must be sworn in. When a person is sworn in, it’s comparable to taking an oath to tell the truth, or making a promise to tell the truth. In some state’s constitutions, it states that being sworn in during a court of law represents an oral contract. If the person fails to testify truthfully, they may be held in contempt of court and also charged with perjury.

“Why have laws at all?” -Quote-
Would you really want to live in a land without laws? Can you even begin to imagine the chaos and havoc that would abound?

I have often had many people tell me that lawyers lie all the time in court. This is so not true. Although I would agree that their submissions before the court are not always spot on, they are charged with giving their client the best defense possible. To do that, attorneys will sometimes “change” the facts when questioning a witness, if for no other reason than to produce reasonable doubt.
 
911 said:
“Makes me wonder if one still is “Sworn in” in a court of law before testifying.” -Quote-
One what? Lawyer? Anyone that gives testimony in a court of law must be sworn in. When a person is sworn in, it’s comparable to taking an oath to tell the truth, or making a promise to tell the truth. In some state’s constitutions, it states that being sworn in during a court of law represents an oral contract. If the person fails to testify truthfully, they may be held in contempt of court and also charged with perjury.

One as in an individual.

“Why have laws at all?” -Quote-
Would you really want to live in a land without laws? Can you even begin to imagine the chaos and havoc that would abound?

My point exactly. And on what are our laws based?

I have often had many people tell me that lawyers lie all the time in court. This is so not true. Although I would agree that their submissions before the court are not always spot on, they are charged with giving their client the best defense possible. To do that, attorneys will sometimes “change” the facts when questioning a witness, if for no other reason than to produce reasonable doubt.
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911 said:
“Why have laws at all?” -Quote-
Would you really want to live in a land without laws? Can you even begin to imagine the chaos and havoc that would abound?
Click to expand...
Live at the edge of civilization for a while
Authorities do not come out there
Everyone has a firearm
Mostly to gain respect and maintain civility
Otherwise, you are meat

In the five years out there, I only know of one instance where a gun was pulled during an altercation....but not aimed

I did fire a few rounds of my 12 gauge into the air one night, when young rowdies from town caused a bit of a disturbance

Fun to see 'em scatter

Oh, and one axe murder
 

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