More Jobs leaving

It is scary. Something needs to be done to stop this, or we are going to end up with no good jobs. What I don't understand (and this is not a partisan or political comment) is that this keeps happening and yet the news keeps saying the economy is improving -- seems like the two are mutually exclusive. I don't get it.
 
It's terrible that these corporations are leaving the US, when so many people here are desperately in need of decent paying jobs. I heard that Ford is going to Mexico too. I know Donald Trump has addressed this during his campaign, and wants to make it more appealing for these large corporations to stay in the United States. He may not be able to get the ones who already left to come back, but even if he stops others from leaving in the future, it will be a start to help our economy and our citizens, IMO. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/b...porate-migrants-seeking-tax-shelter.html?_r=0
 

Corporations have no loyalty to the U.S. or to the American citizens that make up their customers and employees. The business environment in the U.S. was instrumental in the success of said corporations, but many don't 'feel' any moral obligation to contribute back to the system that made them wealthy/successful.

Perhaps if corporate leaders would look to long term benefit rather than short-term gain, they would invest in the future of America to insure future business friendly environment.
 
I have heard (but not researched it myself) that we can all thank NAFTA for the exodus of good jobs here. And I think I've also heard that these latest trade deals will turn out to be more of the same. We're told that they will be good 'for the country' but maybe it's more accurate to say that they will be good for the large multinational corporations .....who send their lobbyists to the halls of government to put the screws to people who want to be re-elected. Fair to say do you think?

And Thomas, I think you're a dreamer. Not to say that the world doesn't need dreamers (where do you think all the greatest inventions have come from? Out of the minds of dreamers!) but corporations and their leaders see bottom lines now and long term benefit for the future of America doesn't even enter into their wildest nightmares. If economies go south, they'll have amassed enough fortune that they and their descendants can still live well long after we're all dead and gone.
 
tnthomas said:
Corporations have no loyalty to the U.S. or to the American citizens that make up their customers and employees. The business environment in the U.S. was instrumental in the success of said corporations, but many don't 'feel' any moral obligation to contribute back to the system that made them wealthy/successful.

Perhaps if corporate leaders would look to long term benefit rather than short-term gain, they would invest in the future of America to insure future business friendly environment.
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I agree Thomas, and it's a sad situation for sure. We should have continued to thrive here in America, we have all the means to...but instead we've deteriorated and as time goes on things appear to be more hopeless. We have more people from other countries investing in America for their own interests, the American businesses who profited from their starts in the US, as you say, are now kicking their own country to the curb. The middle class is truly suffering, and it's such a shame. It would be great if they had a change of heart and looked at long term benefits and invested again in the future of America, but it doesn't look like that will happen, not with the government leaders we've had here in the past anyway. We can always hope that things improve in the future.
 
And yet ...

Americans will still buy Carrier products, because they will be cheaper. The American people share some of the blame, because they aren't willing to support American businesses with their dollars.

I bet in the next year there's going to be a lot of "mistakes" on the production line ...
 
Debby said:
I have heard (but not researched it myself) that we can all thank NAFTA for the exodus of good jobs here.
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Some negative effects of NAFTA here. This article is old, from 2011.


When the North American Free Trade Agreement was first signed in 1994, proponents said it would eventually create jobs for the U.S. economy.

17 years later, a new report estimates, the American worker only has hundreds of thousands of job losses to show for it.

According to a report by Economic Policy Institute economist Robert Scott, entitled"Heading South: U.S.-Mexico trade and job displacement after NAFTA," an estimated 682,900 U.S. jobs have been "lost or displaced" because of the agreement and the resulting trade deficit.
 
Perhaps we should do something to make this unprofitable -- like big fat tariffs on goods coming back into the states or something. Big business (or even small business for that matter) is never going to act to benefit anything but itself, unless it is forced to. Nor does business give a a hoot in a hollow log about what happens to its employees. Bottom line is all they care about.
 
SeaBreeze said:
Some negative effects of NAFTA here. This article is old, from 2011.


When the North American Free Trade Agreement was first signed in 1994, proponents said it would eventually create jobs for the U.S. economy.

17 years later, a new report estimates, the American worker only has hundreds of thousands of job losses to show for it.

According to a report by Economic Policy Institute economist Robert Scott, entitled"Heading South: U.S.-Mexico trade and job displacement after NAFTA," an estimated 682,900 U.S. jobs have been "lost or displaced" because of the agreement and the resulting trade deficit.
Click to expand...

None of these "Free Trade Agreements" have done anything to benefit the American Worker....all they have done is make it far easier for Greedy Corporations to move their production facilities offshore, and increase their Corporate Profits. The latest...the Trans Pacific Partnership...has the drug companies as its one of its biggest supporters. Provisions within this agreement make it harder to get Generic drugs to the market, and thus pad the pockets of our already Bloated drug companies. So long as Big Money drives the politics of most nations, anymore, we can only expect that the average person will continue to lose ground, as the 1% amasses even more wealth.
 
In the video the speaker said something to effect We will continue to produce a quality product until closed. That's the way it should be but that's not how many workers will view it. Management knows it and that actual closing or shutdown will happen quick. Theoretically the workers should go out of their way to make a quality product to shame the new producers but the employees won't care and the management won't care if it takes a while to work the kinks out their new production facility.
 
One of the issues that comes up with outsourcing companies is that I frequently hear buy American or local. But yet if you buy American you are supporting an office staff in corporate headquarters of maybe a few hundred people yet there are foreign owned companies with factories in the US employing thousands at once. So does one buy American essentially supporting nothing but a handful of white collar office people or buy foreign and support a domestic factory with thousands of local people. Keep in mind a lot of that money still winds up in foreign hands. Personally I say buy the product employing the most US citizens first, worry about "American" or the "home" country last.
 
WhatInThe said:
One of the issues that comes up with outsourcing companies is that I frequently hear buy American or local. But yet if you buy American you are supporting an office staff in corporate headquarters of maybe a few hundred people yet there are foreign owned companies with factories in the US employing thousands at once. So does one buy American essentially supporting nothing but a handful of white collar office people or buy foreign and support a domestic factory with thousands of local people. Keep in mind a lot of that money still winds up in foreign hands. Personally I say buy the product employing the most US citizens first, worry about "American" or the "home" country last.
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That's quite true....especially where New Cars are concerned. The "name" on a car has little to do with where it is actually made, anymore. Several of the "foreign" brands are assembled here, while more and more American brands are shifting to Mexico, Canada, and now, even China. There is usually a notation on the window sticker stating where the car is actually assembled, and many brands even include the percentage of US parts on the sticker. A Toyota Camry is probably more "American" than a Ford Fusion.
 
SeaBreeze said:
Some negative effects of NAFTA here. This article is old, from 2011.


When the North American Free Trade Agreement was first signed in 1994, proponents said it would eventually create jobs for the U.S. economy.

17 years later, a new report estimates, the American worker only has hundreds of thousands of job losses to show for it.

According to a report by Economic Policy Institute economist Robert Scott, entitled"Heading South: U.S.-Mexico trade and job displacement after NAFTA," an estimated 682,900 U.S. jobs have been "lost or displaced" because of the agreement and the resulting trade deficit.
Click to expand...


Thanks SeaBreeze for the quote. That's what I thought I'd heard about NAFTA too. And I think it was your Brookings Institute that recently said something similar about the effects of this new TPP that's being pushed through several countries. That ten years down the road, we can look forward to job losses in our respective countries instead of the trade bonanza's that were being 'promised'. I wonder what the stats would be if you were to look at large corporations and their bottom lines pre-NAFTA and post-NAFTA. And could it logically follow that the same effects (whatever those will be) will show up with the TPP?
 
Seems to me that they've 'talked' the governments into setting laws and deals that have made this possible Butterfly. 'We' might be the government's employers, but we seem to have very little say in what goes on except who gets to occupy certain chairs for a few years.
 
Most of these trade treaties favor someone or thing ie the corporations. Even more dangerous is that these treaties frequently give up sovereignty forcing a litigant to bypass their own country's legal system going to a "tribunal" or arbitration committee more than likely stacked by the corporations.
 
WhatInThe said:
Most of these trade treaties favor someone or thing ie the corporations. Even more dangerous is that these treaties frequently give up sovereignty forcing a litigant to bypass their own country's legal system going to a "tribunal" or arbitration committee more than likely stacked by the corporations.
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Increasingly, governments all over the globe are being controlled by the big international corporations, and the Ultra Rich. They move their manufacturing facilities to wherever the labor costs are the cheapest. The day is going to come when the bulk of the people can no longer afford many of their products....as wages and benefits continue to remain stagnant or decline in their "parent" nations. The net worth of the upper 1% is already equal to, or more, than the remaining 99% of the planets population. The longer this trend continues, the greater the risk for a major rebellion among the populations....we are seeing many of the same conditions that led to the French Revolution in the late 1700's. With ever increasing populations, and fewer people able to keep their heads above water, there WILL come a breaking point. These International Trade agreements just hasten the day when societies begin to implode.
 
Starting to hear that Carrier received $5.1 MILLION in federal stimulus money for that plant and 'eco friendly' products. Carrier is trying to deny it by saying things they never were able to fulfill the requirements. Big meeting with union today on closing
 
This Carrier thing boils down to two things....Greed and Mismanagement....mostly Greed. Carrier will cut its labor costs in half, but their prices will probably remain the same...with the excess profits flowing into the Shareholders and Executives pockets. When their Board of Directors meets, they will probably give the Executives a nice bonus. Meanwhile, this loss of jobs will have a Ripple effect through the regions entire economy...and result in added government unemployment costs, etc.
 
The trouble is manufacturing jobs with little training could get you a job with good pay, vacation, and health care.

Manufacturing job were also slipping away to robotization.

There is nothing that is equivalent and there is no going back.

We just need try and get the most out of the jobs we have with Government help like Obama care. sick days, and higher minimum wage.
 
Mexican factory workers to get $6 an hour where US counter parts got 20.

http://fox59.com/2016/02/16/union-carrier-said-they-will-pay-mexican-workers-3-an-hour/

Lost to a lower wage and cheaper cost country I get that. BUT this is not true competition because I don't think the average Mexican is going to have to take that $6 dollars and pay the bills the US worker does. They might have to pay taxes and rent but does the Mexican worker have utility bill pay let alone their town having a full fledged electric grid or municipal water supply? Are they going to have to pay off a car, insurance, home owners and mortgage insurance, a mortgage etc? They might have rent and taxes but the salary of a foreign worker doesn't have to cover as much as the US salary does. But that's a bad sign because many of those foreign workers couldn't buy many of the things and services a US worker buys if they wanted to.

In true competition the foreign worker should be able to take their salary and buy at least the econo version of what they make on credit. I doubt even a window air conditioner is affordable to many of these workers let alone central air conditioning. The foreign worker benefits because the things they do buy are more affordable but lose out because their efforts will lead to only a fraction of the US worker could buy. Perhaps there should be a legislated caveat on US companies outsourcing and that is there should be a local market for their product in the city of production.
 

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