Nearly 19,000 NHS patients left waiting for three days in A&E over 12 months

Don M. said:
Universal Health Care can sometimes limit patient care, but compared to our "for Profit" system, I think we would be better off with a UHC system. If you look at global statistics, We pay twice as much for health care in the US, compared to most UHC nations, and the web sites that rank the global health care systems rank the US between 35 and 70 in terms of value of care received for the costs.
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Until a few decades ago, the US's higher than average healthcare costs was so profits could go into medical research and innovations. That all changed when insurance companies took over pricing so they could cover claims and still make a substantial profit.

These days, Americans actually pay less (on average) for healthcare than they once did because most have medical insurance. Employed Americans do, for sure, and low-income Americans can get Medicaid. They pay even less, and their medical providers get chicken-feed.

So now, our taxes fund medical research and innovations.

And a HUGE problem with that is that government agencies control the type of research and innovations, and who will be funded, and they usually base those decisions on political ideology and current policy. That limits medical progress and advancements horribly and egregiously, and it's the reason the US is no longer a world leader in the field of medicine.
(fortunately, a few other countries excel at this. Japan and Switzerland, for example)
 
Twostep said:
Considering Holly's medical appointment and surgery posts here and the ones from friends in the UK - we are just fine her in Oklahoma. At least we do not have to bring a cot.
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Anyone can have a bad experience. Then you factor in the "glass half full, or glass half empty" element. Then further, that Holly will be covered by one NHS Trust, and I ask an example will be under a totally different Trust. Experiences can vary. I will also add - while there are long waiting lists in the UK for some surgeries, would you not accept there are people dying all over the US because they cannot afford medicines, or get care at all? I could give real examples, but I hardly think I should need to.

For the record. I had a test with a optometrist three weeks ago or so. Cataract in my right eye is a problem. She recommended me for surgery, and within two weeks had heard from the respective department who want me to call for an appointment. The only reason I haven't is because I have other things going on right now.
 

Don M. said:
Universal Health Care can sometimes limit patient care, but compared to our "for Profit" system, I think we would be better off with a UHC system. If you look at global statistics, We pay twice as much for health care in the US, compared to most UHC nations, and the web sites that rank the global health care systems rank the US between 35 and 70 in terms of value of care received for the costs.
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Even in the UK - if you're not happy with the NHS, you can pay for private. You do not have to see NHS doctors, or get surgery in NHS hospitals. If people truly prefer to pay out of pocket, then that's their choice.
 
VaughanJB said:
Anyone can have a bad experience. Then you factor in the "glass half full, or glass half empty" element. Then further, that Holly will be covered by one NHS Trust, and I ask an example will be under a totally different Trust. Experiences can vary. I will also add - while there are long waiting lists in the UK for some surgeries, would you not accept there are people dying all over the US because they cannot afford medicines, or get care at all? I could give real examples, but I hardly think I should need to.

For the record. I had a test with a optometrist three weeks ago or so. Cataract in my right eye is a problem. She recommended me for surgery, and within two weeks had heard from the respective department who want me to call for an appointment. The only reason I haven't is because I have other things going on right now.
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Please do not drag that out!
Most "I cannot" I encountered expected to be served on a silver platter.
 
VaughanJB said:
Even in the UK - if you're not happy with the NHS, you can pay for private. You do not have to see NHS doctors, or get surgery in NHS hospitals. If people truly prefer to pay out of pocket, then that's their choice.
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I had to go that route in Germany as I could not show proof of two living children.
 
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Murrmurr said:
Workers fund the NHS, yes? And a gov't agency regulates and oversees its spending. The NHS submits an annual report to that gov't agency, and the agency can increase or decrease funding, approve or deny programs the NHS proposes, propose programs they would like the NHS to adopt, and mandate programs or actions that the NHS must adopt.

Moreover, any tax-funded public service can be reformed, reorganized, replaced, merged with other services, placed under a different "umbrella", and/or completely shut down by the gov't.

That's what I meant by government-run.
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Well, it wouldn't be government without a bureaucracy. :D

Government sets the overall budget. Government can demand national programs etc. But locally there's another level, a NHS Trust. So, the trust that directly manages my health care options might have different ideas than say, the trust Holly is under.

This government, and ANY government, has to be very careful about doing much of anything with the NHS - it's truly a breaking point for many. Which is why, if it fails, there's a lot of noise.
 
hollydolly said:
we have a massive shortage of Doctors and nursing staff... but most of all we have a massive shortage of hospitals. So many people die now before being seen by a doctor or admitted into a ward that it doesn't even make local news...
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And I thought the internet would make us all faster and more effective - but its not modern science that's letting us down its incompetent politicians large and small who can't manage budgets except their own?
 
hollydolly said:
we have a massive shortage of Doctors and nursing staff... but most of all we have a massive shortage of hospitals. So many people die now before being seen by a doctor or admitted into a ward that it doesn't even make local news...
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I saw an episode of Yes Minister that explained the problem. Patients are gumming up the works in otherwise well managed hospitals. Once the civil servants got rid of the patients the hospitals were very efficient. Problem solved.
 
Don M. said:
Universal Health Care can sometimes limit patient care, but compared to our "for Profit" system, I think we would be better off with a UHC system. If you look at global statistics, We pay twice as much for health care in the US, compared to most UHC nations, and the web sites that rank the global health care systems rank the US between 35 and 70 in terms of value of care received for the costs.
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We could cut our medical expenses by 20% by simply reducing the number of diabetics by 50%. All it takes is a better diet that prevents much of the disease from occurring, and limiting the bad health effects when it does.
 
yep that was the plan to cut lung diseases by harsher controls on smoking and in some places it worked well - I am now paying exorbient prices for pipe tobacco and cigars
 
Brookswood said:
We could cut our medical expenses by 20% by simply reducing the number of diabetics by 50%. All it takes is a better diet that prevents much of the disease from occurring, and limiting the bad health effects when it does.
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True, but the Biggest financial impact on our nations health is OBESITY. It is estimated that Obesity costs our nation over 1.4 Trillion dollars per year.

How Much Does Obesity Cost the U.S?
 
The Large Local hospital here has a sign with a clock on it by a major State highway stating
the wait time at that time in the ER. Usually, it's an hour or more. A few times it stated no
wait but by the time one got there would be at least a 1/2 wait. On average, overdosed
drug addicts from motels get the best service and then are watched 24 hours with a nurse
sitting in the private room with them. Thats separate from the nut ward floor, where nurse
watch them 24 / 7's many times privately.
 
Joey said:
And I thought the internet would make us all faster and more effective - but its not modern science that's letting us down its incompetent politicians large and small who can't manage budgets except their own?
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One of the issues is that we have a free health system that is monitored, tracked, and costed as though it's a for profit system. If they concentrated on care, and care alone, we'd be better off. Also, political interference, which changes from government to government.

As a Brit, and a Brit that has traveled extensively, I can honestly say that the NHS is something I'm most proud of. My nation created a system that provides its people with a baseline of care like no other. The US system is also great - IF you can afford it. Far too many people in the US fall through the cracks (sic). If you look at the care provided, it can be top notch - but it only pays off in totality, and too many have to go without. IMO YMMV.
 
Brookswood said:
We could cut our medical expenses by 20% by simply reducing the number of diabetics by 50%. All it takes is a better diet that prevents much of the disease from occurring, and limiting the bad health effects when it does.
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Type 2 diabetes. Not type 1.

If I wanted to be controversial about the NHS, I would be in favor of making drunks (alcohol) pay for their Saturday Night treatments.

Hospital beds, to some extent, are shot because of failures in social housing. There's nowhere to put some people, so they stay in hospital. It's a complicated web of interests.
 
Wanna know the cause of the Obesity and Diabetes epidemics? Next time you're in the grocery store read the ingredients label. Almost everything has sugar in it. It's been added by the food industry. If sugar is listed first on the ingrediants label that means that it is the ingrediate that there is the most of.

sugar.jpg
 
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VaughanJB said:
Type 2 diabetes. Not type 1.

If I wanted to be controversial about the NHS, I would be in favor of making drunks (alcohol) pay for their Saturday Night treatments.

Hospital beds, to some extent, are shot because of failures in social housing. There's nowhere to put some people, so they stay in hospital. It's a complicated web of interests.
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You could say that a friend of mine fell through the cracks last October. She fell in her kitchen when going to make a cup of tea at 10pm last October. Couldn’t get up. Luckily she had her mobile phone & called for an ambulance. It arrived at 6am next morning after she’d been lying on the kitchen floor all night. She doesn’t live remotely, like I do, but in the suburbs of a northern town. It was gone dinner time before she was seen by a doctor, she’d broken her hip & her femur, was in hospital till nearly Christmas having had a replacement hip & rod in the thigh & now is confined to a wheelchair having been previously actively showing & judging.
 
It is all a shambles wherever we are - in simple terms it illustrates aspects of non-caring by some ; incompetence with admin and funds by some - we are illustrating f.....d up planetary systems by people who just don't care or who have sunken into a stuporous state of being; possible having started out very keen and quite competent. But this can happen anywhere in any system in any country.

In UK we once had a super store Marks and Spencers that originally excelled in all aspects of management and on the shop floor excellence - but eventually after a long period it too could not compete with surrounding companies that were competing at lower and cheaper standards. Humans seem able to excel for a while but then get swallowed up by the thousands who don't care?

Then if we turn to another extreme look at some of the South Pacific isles - Hiati say - total lack of control in a small island that could be idyllic? - good practicing religions around the globe have in
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some cases been able to set standards by which to live in harmony ; pride and care of all. It can be done but needs a system ; a way of life and religion can sometimes set good examples - they are not always perfect but they do try. We all need anchors or selfishness and greed and creep in - its the story of humanity heh?
 
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Pendle said:
You could say that a friend of mine fell through the cracks last October. She fell in her kitchen when going to make a cup of tea at 10pm last October. Couldn’t get up. Luckily she had her mobile phone & called for an ambulance. It arrived at 6am next morning after she’d been lying on the kitchen floor all night. She doesn’t live remotely, like I do, but in the suburbs of a northern town. It was gone dinner time before she was seen by a doctor, she’d broken her hip & her femur, was in hospital till nearly Christmas having had a replacement hip & rod in the thigh & now is confined to a wheelchair having been previously actively showing & judging.
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Let's say I have a distant relative in the US needing a place in a care home. The options open to them are few. Sure, if I were able to pay $8K a month, she could have great care. But means must. So, the level of care is poor. And care can be bad in the UK too - but really, my experience of the US system is not good.
 

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