Need Help Making a Decision...

Ozarkgal

Ozarkgal

Senior Member
Location
Deep in the Ozark woods
I'm turning to my forum buddies to either enable me or knock some sense into me..I'll make the final decision, so you're off the hook if it goes wrong.

Mr.O and I have kicked around the idea of getting a larger dog to help ward off the varmits and act as a first defense warning system if an intruder should appear. Our house is well insulated and when we're inside, we cannot hear a car come down the road until it is down our driveway and parked in front of the house.

Yesterday we stopped by the no kill animal shelter to drop off some donations and at the same time we got there a car pulled in beside us. The lady got out with a cute pup about 13 weeks old and it turns out she was fostering it and looking for a home. We talked to her for a few minutes and went in to look at the other dogs. They had several I would have taken home.

When we came out we talked to her more about the pup and she said it would probably get to about 60 pounds and was a very good girl, that is almost housebroken, is calm and has only chewed on her appropriate toys. She's had her for almost two weeks and the pup was never in the shelter, she took her home immediately. She also said she thought she had someone who wanted to adopt her and didn't seem interested in promoting her to us.

She asked for my number in case she found anything we might be interested in and we left, thinking that was the end of it.

Well, she called today and said she had thought about us and was convinced we would make good parents for the dog based on how well behaved and how good the Gangstas looked. Yes, they were with us as usual. Also, the potential adopters did not have a fenced yard and they mentioned their last dog got killed on the road.

We did not ask to adopt the dog, only expressed how cute she was, so I was surprised when she called.

We told her we would think it over and call her in the morning with our decision.

The pros are that she is a darling pup, short coated, like we want, and about the right size, and oh so cute. The icing is that she has had all her shots and there would be no adoption fee, since she was taken into foster care without going through the shelter. The foster mom is on the board of directors and has the leeway to do that. We would only have to spay here when the time comes, and start her on heart worm meds. She said we could take her for a trial period and if she didn't work out we would be free to return her.

Cons, are obedience training a new pup, socializing her with the cats and Buckaroo, housebreaking it, which she has a good start on, because while she will primarily be an outdoor dog, she will come in during bad weather.

Also, we would have to board her if we went anywhere, so there's that expense. Not often, but a consideration.

I wonder if it would be fair for her to be an outside dog while the Gangstas enjoy the luxury of gracious living in the house?

She will probably outlive us, so runs the risk of having to go to a new home when she's an older dog. But, then the Gangstas are in the same position mostly.
Whatcha' think?:dunno:
 

OG, in the end you'll go with your heart, but add to pros and cons the thought of installing a proximity alarm set-up, a non organic one.

The rural rels had one installed, the sensors on the gates down on the highway turnoff into their driveway and the buzzer would go off that a vehicle was on the property, then a second set was installed where the driveway branched to the boarding kennels so when that one buzzed they knew it was a customer not a visitor to the house.

Didn't cost much to set up, zero to feed, and they didn't have to take it on holidays with them. They had their own house dogs too but the buzzer system beat them hands down for accuracy and it didn't bark at foxes all night.

Just a thought.
 
My dog is almost 70 pounds, and I wouldn't want him to be an outside dog, even when his coat is all grown out and wooly. I wouldn't have the heart to keep a dog outdoors at all anyway, they'd have to be part of the family in the home. I used to have an Alaskan Malamute, and although he enjoyed being outside summer or winter, he came in and out during the day, and spent all night indoors with us.

I was thinking along the same lines as Di, you can set up something that warns you someone is headed towards your house, I'm sure there are lots of sensors available nowadays. Just my :2cents:. :concern:
 

For an outside perimeter security system you'd need to wire the entire perimeter for it to be effective. A driveway sensor is fine for vehicles but it won't stop the perps that jump the fence or simply stroll through the gate after disabling it.

As for a dog that is to serve guard duty, you really can't get emotionally involved in the decision. You have to be as cold and calculating as the perps you're trying to keep out. Actually you'd need to have him trained not to bark at every falling leaf but to raise the alarm with a human. You also have to consider that a dog is just the first-line defense - unfortunately, they can be disposed of quite easily by a serious invader.

You also have to consider whether you want one for "show" - big dog, deep growl / bark - or a hyper little yapper that, even untrained, will be more likely to notice an intruder than the perhaps more lethargic big dog.

Just a few random thoughts.
 
I don't think OG is defending against Ninja attacks Phil, just a heads-up when 'visitors' are imminent.

The rels had that alarm/muscle thing covered with a little JR to sound the alarm and wake the ShephardX who did the bouncing work.
 
Thanks for all the input..I knew you all would come through for me. Everyone had excellent comments and suggestions, and in the end we have opted not to get the pup. When I really thought about putting all the effort into training, taking it out on leash for potty breaks several times a day until it is housebroken, the extra expenditure for medical care, food and boarding I decided the cons outweighed the pros. More importantly, it seems that neither one of us are really over the moon about it and it wouldn't be fair to the dog. Also, it would bite into my financial comfort zone on the money I have to spend on the animals, so not fair to man nor beast.

While my idea wasn't to get a "guard" dog to protect us from intruders, but rather to warn us of things moving around the area, those that suggested electronic devices are probably barking up the right tree.:rolleyes: I have actually thought of that and priced some, and in the long run the expense would be much more cost effective, and if it dies, there is no emotional attachment, just replace it.

But, but, but...she was so darned cute!

Oh, and her ancestory is dubious. She appears to have a hound breed in her and maybe some lab. She's light brown and white spotted, with touches of black and very short coated.

Thanks again for all your comments and suggestions, it really helped!
 
It's no fun being a mature adult, is it, when you can't even get a puppy! :(

I think you did the right thing, OG. Like Di said, cute doesn't last - I found that out working in the clubs. :cool:
 
It's no fun being a mature adult, is it, when you can't even get a puppy! :(
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Why buy when you can 'try?' I've been guilty of going into a pet shop for the express purpose of 'molesting' their small furry merchandise more than once. I left the proprietors and the pups disappointed but I'd had my 'cute' hit of the day for free, so tough bikkies.

I was seriously stalked by a determined kitten once. It was on a visit to a friend's relative's farm to see the latest batch of prize stock horse foals they'd bred. We walked through the big tractor shed which was infested with cats! Must have been 20 in there, all with kittens in tow or ready to explode a batch. One mottled skinny little bag of bones staggered over and attached itself to my sneaker. Oh. Okay, I disengaged it, put it down and walked on but when we hesitated at the door it re-attached!

I really didn't want to pick it up again as it was crawling with fleas, it's fur was all matted and it looked to have runny nose and eyes. I hate to say it but that kitten looked a goner. I felt so sorry for it I gently detached it again and gave it's little ears a tickle and kind of said sorry but goodbye to it. Baaaad mistake. It took the ear scratching as a licence to haunt and that thing was never more than 6 inches from me for the rest of time we were outside. I couldn't shake it off! It just stared at me. No one else, just me!

I was glad when we were finally leaving just to get away from it because I could feel my resolve melting. Then the woman of the house ran over to the bloody car with it and asked did I want it! Did I NOT! The realization had hit me like a bucket of ice that if I took that kitten home it would be dead and dismembered about 5 seconds after it appeared in the house. Belle detests cats, little tiny cats equate with prey to her and she would have despatched it instantly. So no, I didn't 'rescue' the kitten. But I did think of it now and then and wonder what the hell it was thinking attaching itself to me like that.

I visited there next time the foals were 'out' and there was the kitten! All grown up with her own batch in tow. The markings were very distinctive so I knew it was her. She'd survived whatever ailed her when she was tiny and looked the picture of health.
She paid me absolutely no attention whatever so there was no 'special bond', and I'll never know why she had followed me about that day but I'm sure glad I didn't let the heart have the say in it.
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Just to clear things a little : Those people weren't rednecks, they were pillars of the local community and the cats were skinny because they were 'working cats,' not pets. They were to keep the mouse plague that the area was recovering from down. They lived in the tractor shed with the horse feed.
The fleas were also in plague proportions that year. (I put Belle's head in a plastic bag and sprayed the bejeezus over the rest of her to kill the few hundred she picked up in the yard one day. They seemed to travel through town in waves, they were there one day, gone the next, back again a few days later. They were 'sand' fleas and didn't come into houses so much but I wasn't letting her bring any in either!)

They couldn't do much about the cats, most were half feral and wouldn't have handled flea collars 'n such. The only real contact they had with humans was at feeding time every 2nd day to keep their 'diet' a bit balanced other than mice. It was a very strange arrangement but seemed to work okay all round. I suspect an awful lot of kittens got drowned though. It was a farm, that's how things rolled on farms.

The foals were cuter than the kittens anyway.
 
Slightly different situation but, sadly I had to have my faithful old dog of 13 years, originally from the pound, put down a few months ago and could not believe the hole she left in my life being my constant companion.

I spent quite a while deciding if a replacement dog was the answer, having spent months befriending a skinny little white cat who made himself at home sleeping by day in a large pot plant and when it was stormy curled up on my bed.

Visiting the RSPCA a couple of months ago I found an 18 month old American Staffy/Kelpie cross and bought her home >> BIG MISTAKE!

She is well fed and looked after but if she lives to be a 1000 she will never be a patch on my previous dog. She has chased poor Puss-puss out of the yard and he now lives under a bush in the front garden. She is almost feral, has never been an inside dog, is destructive, has skin allergies (common among Staffy breeds I’m since told) hard to control while on a leash, dislikes being groomed, poos and pees inside, and I dare not leave her unattended in the car should she eat it.

I volunteered a few years ago at the RSPCA where there was a good variety of breeds but current shelter dogs have been well picked over and discarded as crap by would-be owners. Mostly Staffy breeds; many of them come from the country, totally alien to the suburbs, and would suit your problem.

They say a pet is for life but this one is barely being tolerated at present and will eventually end up back at the shelter or shot

This won't help with your decision but will bring home the reality and responsibility of owning such an animal
 
Pets can be VERY expensive too
Throughout my last mate I spent thousands (he had irritable bowel )

Even a camera and security lights would be far cheaper and no upkeep :D (run on solar panel maybe too)
 
Murphy, I know that taking in a shelter pet can be a big risk as far as compatibility with one's lifestyle since there is usually no way of knowing what the animal has been through that has to be worked out . A lot end up in shelters because of behavoral issues and extreme patience and training are necessary to overcome the problems. Most casual pet owners are not knowledgeable enough to handle these types of animals and they end up back in the shelter.

It sounds like your pup has some major behavior problems that would need to be addressed by a professional trainer, and you may not be in for the financial or ongoing training aspect of that scenario. Not all animals and people are a personality or lifestyle match, so don't be hesitant to return the dog and maybe get a dog that is more trainable and suited to you. No shame there!

When I was at the shelter they has a cute little Bichon Frise there that they told me had been adopted and returned three times. Apparently, he was a biter until he got to know you, and this went for anyone he encountered.. Bichons are inherently a gentle breed, and in all my years of working with dogs maybe only encountered two or three with aggression problems. So even choosing a breed that is known for being a good family dog, does not always guarantee results.

Two of the Gangstas were pound puppies and both were highly trainable, with no bad habits to work through, so I got lucky there.

Phantom..Don't I know they can be expensive! One of my dearly departed schnauzers was chronically ill since puppyhood. In the 12 years she lived I spent enough on her vet care to have retired 10 years sooner. I used to call her my little cruise around the world, because that's what I could have done if it weren't for paying her vet bills. But, if I could have her back, I'd do it again!

You're right, electronic equipment is the way to go these days!
 
Sounds like you made a decision that is right for you, the Mister and the gangstas. I can't go into the animal rescue places as I'll be depressed for days because I can't take them all. My dogs are fairly big and will make someone think twice about coming around when not invited, but I'm sure they would lick anyone to death before they'd bite. They are indoor dogs and only out by themselves if they are in the fenced area or if I'm with them.

They are good alarms for sure although sometimes they bark at anything that moves including chipmunks, cats and oh yes - birds. Drive me crazy at times but I can't imaging being without them. They have birthdays coming in January and they'll be three yrs old.

Animal lovers have it in the blood so I'd imagine if you did get the puppy, it would be indoors in no time at all with the rest of the crew.

Good for you for taking the time to think it through and not making a "spur of the minute" decision.
 
Thanks TICA, and you're right, no doubt she would have been propped up on the couch along with the Gangstas. I know one look at a sad face having to stay out while the rest came in would melt my resolve. Although, I have to say it has not worked for Lovey, my barn cat who fantasizes about living the good life indoors..LOL
 
Another possibility for guarding your property is a llama. They are excellent as a farm protective animal, and they are easy to feed and care for. They are shy, but friendly, inquisitive, and will protect you and any animals that you have from attacks by coyotes, and other unwanted critters.
Llamas are also quite intelligent, and easy to train, can carry a pack or smaller child, and will also learn to pull a cart.
Since they only use designated areas for their "bathroom", they are also very easy to clean up after if necessary, and can also ride in a vehicle or come in the house on occasion.
Their manure is wonderful for a garden fertilizer, and is easy to transport, since it will already be in a shovelable pile, and comes in little pellets, and is not even very smelly.
They prefer to sleep outside, but can be put in a barn/shelter in bad weather, and do not need a lot of feed, eating similar to a deer would eat.
All in all, they can be an excellent alternative to a guard dog, as well as enjoyable to have around. There are also rescue llamas, where you can adopt one, just like a rescue dog.

 
Naahh..have a friend that had a couple...they spit, need to be shaved in the summer, toenails must be trimmed, so they have to be taught to stand for that, and are not dog friendly...plus there is still the problem of who takes care of it when we leave. They are cute though!
 
Thanks Ozarkgal that makes me feel less guilty. After a sleepless night agonising over what I could do for her long term and IF she would ever settle-in, I took her back to the pound this morning and unfortunately received a hostile reception from the staff. I now suspect they knew her history, and I had exchanged emails stating I was really struggling, that could be why she was offered so ridiculously cheap.

My stray little white cat has now reinstalled himself inside and follows me from room to room, so some good came from it.
 
Murphy, OzarkGal was right on the money with her advice.

Sometimes, no matter how badly we wish otherwise, animals, like some people, are just beyond redemption. Sad but true.

I think you made the right choice, and I'm glad that Puss is back and following you around.
 
Cats and dogs are companion animals, we need them to be that. We don't make companions of humans who are a PIA, so why put up with more from an animal than we would from a person?

Compatibility is paramount, many pets end up owning the people who pay their bills.
Belle is perfect for me, enough sass and cheekiness to keep her interesting, but enough sense to know when to leave me alone too. She has mood swings so is never boring and gives me a workout keeping ahead of her cunning plots. We both seem to know what the other is thinking about doing before we do it. She's not everyone's ideal dog, and will never win an obedience medal but she's sure fun to know.
It's really not as common as made out that all dogs/cats suit all people. A perfectly obedient dog would bore me witless. I want a 'companion' not a wind up toy.

Glad to hear about that bad Bichon Frize, thought the one I encountered was the only biter among them. They get such a great rap I felt guilty about not 'bonding' with the little bugger.

Right about those Llamas/Alpacas too. They're great for some but have their own little maintenance drawbacks, like shearing.
And those feet! They have what looks like 2 little hooves or toenails? on each leg which have to be trimmed. I only noticed that on the pet ones at the aged hostel. Couldn't get over it, don't know what I expected their feet to look like really, a camel's or something... but ... they're just weird.
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