New Zealand Overturns Smoking Ban

hollydolly

hollydolly

SF VIP
Location
London England
New Zealand's new government says it plans to scrap the nation's world-leading smoking ban to fund tax cuts.
The legislation, introduced under the previous Jacinda Ardern-led government, would have banned cigarette sales next year to anyone born after 2008.


Smoking is the leading cause of preventable deaths in New Zealand, and the policy had aimed to stop young generations from picking up the habit.
Health experts have strongly criticised the sudden reversal.

"We are appalled and disgusted... this is an incredibly retrograde step on world-leading, absolutely excellent health measures," said Prof Richard Edwards, a tobacco control researcher and public health expert at the University of Otago.

 

Smoking bans sound like a good idea. Who wouldn't want to save lives? But we live in the real world. There may be unintended consequences. Everybody thought banning alcohol would save lives, keep families together, and improve the morals of the nation. Who could argue with that? I don't think creating another underground commodity ripe for criminal smugglers is what we need right now.
 

fuzzybuddy said:
Smoking bans sound like a good idea. Who wouldn't want to save lives? But we live in the real world. There may be unintended consequences. Everybody thought banning alcohol would save lives, keep families together, and improve the morals of the nation. Who could argue with that? I don't think creating another underground commodity ripe for criminal smugglers is what we need right now.
Click to expand...
..the weird thing tho' is that it's been banned.. and now this new govt are overturning the ban....

However I personally think it was a mistake to create a ban in the first place.. cigarettes are not like alcohol, or drugs you don't get high on them and rob , kill or drive drugged... so banning alcohol.. as ling as it's only permitted to smoke outside is taking away the personal rights of a person to use tobacco.

In the UK, they want to ultimately ban smoking but they're doing it in such a way that the smoker themselves will eventually just give up, in that they've banned smoking everywhere indoors... and many places close to buildings.. but still give people the right to smoke in open areas..and in their own homes and gardens...but they've also increased the price of cigarettes to astronomical levels.. a Pack of jut 20 cigarettes.. costs a third more than the current minimum hourly wage
 
hollydolly said:
In the UK, they want to ultimately ban smoking but they're doing it in such a way that the smoker themselves will eventually just give up, in that they've banned smoking everywhere indoors... and many places close to buildings.. but still give people the right to smoke in open areas..and in their own homes and gardens...but they've also increased the price of cigarettes to astronomical levels.. a Pack of jut 20 cigarettes.. costs a third more than the current minimum hourly wage
Click to expand...

That is just like here in states the taxes thrown on cigarettes ....the cost per pack let alone carton is astronomical some states are worse then others in adding state level taxes as well.
if everyone who smoked decided nope and stopped tomorrow.... the government would lose their marbles trying to get that tax money back....
Bans only create a black market for those who still want the item.
 
Jeni said:
That is just like here in states the taxes thrown on cigarettes ....the cost per pack let alone carton is astronomical some states are worse then others in adding state level taxes as well.
if everyone who smoked decided nope and stopped tomorrow.... the government would lose their marbles trying to get that tax money back....
Bans only create a black market for those who still want the item.
Click to expand...
yes you're so right. When our Govt increased the price of cigarettes by such a huge amount, we were all very surprised because the tax levied from Cigarettes is HUGE for them... always has been.. yet here they were stopping all, but the most addicted from smoking, and paying into govt coffers... needless to say.. soon after that happened, Petrol ( Gas) shot through the roof in price, as an already very expensive commodity for consumers but a big tax income for HM Govt ..
 
@hollydolly .....exactly ....
they did they same here with gas and other items and frankly they do not have a plan on what if something changed and gas use dropped off or people quit drinking or smoking all that money has been spent before it even is collected.

Some states are working on ways to charge that TAX on for example electric cars even though we were lectured on how they were the answer for environment..... but not the tax collectors.
it just proves it is not about health or fossil fuels it is about the tax.

"Lawmakers weigh pay-per-mile tax for electric cars"​

 
Jeni said:
@hollydolly .....exactly ....
they did they same here with gas and other items and frankly they do not have a plan on what if something changed and gas use dropped off or people quit drinking or smoking all that money has been spent before it even is collected.

Some states are working on ways to charge that TAX on for example electric cars even though we were lectured on how they were the answer for environment..... but not the tax collectors.
it just proves it is not about health or fossil fuels it is about the tax.

"Lawmakers weigh pay-per-mile tax for electric cars"​

Click to expand...
Exactly that...same here too with the electric cars...
 
Nathan said:
I guess having the "personal right" to use an addictive, deadly substance should be protected at all costs. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
well I think people do have the right to do what they want to their own bodies.. however I also think that if you're an addict of any substance, that would include drugs, and alcohol.. that you should sign a waiver excusing you from free, or cheap medical procedures which are directly caused by the addiction.
 
hollydolly said:
well I think people do have the right to do what they want to their own bodies.. however I also think that if you're an addict of any substance, that would include drugs, and alcohol.. that you should sign a waiver excusing you from free, or cheap medical procedures which are directly caused by the addiction.
Click to expand...
The reality is smoking and other things cause damage but we people a pass based on bad choices...
It used to be here we would / should charge more for health insurance etc.... but many thought that was discrimination for smokers.

No not discrimination ... it was a mathematical reality..... a consequence for poor choices....
 
Electric cars are heavier and a lot harder on the roads than a normal car. A lot of road financing is done through fuel taxes. EVs charge using electricity at rates regulated for use in homes and do not include road taxes.

You do the math.
 
dilettante said:
Electric cars are heavier and a lot harder on the roads than a normal car. A lot of road financing is done through fuel taxes. EVs charge using electricity at rates regulated for use in homes and do not include road taxes.

You do the math.
Click to expand...
In the Uk we pay not only through our property council tax for the upkeep of roads but every car owner has to pay an annual car tax as well.. which is charged depending on the size of your vehicle and emissions and the year of its manufacture... a small car costs an average of around £180 per year.. and anything up to £1000 per year for a larger vehicle ...yet our road are in atrocious conditions in many places...
 
What about the "My body, my choice" mantra I keep hearing?

Is tobacco bad for you? Yes, but so are french fries and coke. Obesity is the second leading cause of death in the US. Are you okay with applying a "sin tax" to what you eat to discourage you from buying it? Or charge obese people more for health care? Or deny health services to you if your BMI is over a certain amount?

And, of course, then we can apply the same principle to any inherently dangerous activity, such as, oh, swimming or mountain climbing or motorcycle riding or taking a shower (every day, someone in the US dies from an accident in the tub or shower...) ????

So please, do the math, indeed.

p.s. I don't smoke, and not obese, just pleasingly plump...:)
 
Didn't some of the anthills (New York?) impose a sin tax on sugary fizzy drinks, including those without sugar? Wasn't that where the marketers merely turned to promoting non-carbonated sugar water and plain old water in bottles for pure profit? Didn't the lemmings follow that right over the cliff?
 
Nathan said:
So with the ban reversed 15 yr old children will be able to buy tobacco? SMH. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Can that same 15 year old buy a Big Mac or two, fries and coke? Or, heaven forbid, "Chicken" McNuggets?

What is the childhood obesity rate in the US 2023?
As of 2023, 1 in 5 children in the US are obese, with this number rising yearly. Childhood obesity is exacerbated by the lifestyle of children, where their attention is consumed by technology use at the expense of consuming nutritious foods and participating in physical activities.
 
In the states, times have changed a lot regarding smoking during my lifetime. When I began working, people smoked at their desks. Want to smoke in a restaurant? Feel free to “light one up,” and if the smoke bothered other diners, the attitude was that it was their right to smoke!

Smokers have increasingly since become pariahs in society. By the time I retired, smoking was unthinkable in the office, and smokers couldn’t even smoke on office grounds, but basically went for walks while smoking...a curious example of doing something healthy while doing something unhealthy!

I don’t favor bans on tobacco sales, but smokers must accept the consequences for their habit that include restrictions, higher insurance costs, and probable early death ...and keep the smoke distant from my lungs, please… 🚬
 
hollydolly said:
yes you're so right. When our Govt increased the price of cigarettes by such a huge amount, we were all very surprised because the tax levied from Cigarettes is HUGE for them... always has been.. yet here they were stopping all, but the most addicted from smoking, and paying into govt coffers... needless to say.. soon after that happened, Petrol ( Gas) shot through the roof in price, as an already very expensive commodity for consumers but a big tax income for HM Govt ..
Click to expand...

On the other side of the equation smoking is estimated to cost the NHS £2.5 billion every year.

fuzzybuddy said:
Smoking bans sound like a good idea. Who wouldn't want to save lives? But we live in the real world. There may be unintended consequences. Everybody thought banning alcohol would save lives, keep families together, and improve the morals of the nation. Who could argue with that? I don't think creating another underground commodity ripe for criminal smugglers is what we need right now.
Click to expand...
Can't argue with that, you only have to go back to the time of the USA's prohibition to see the results of such.
 
A pack of 20 cigarettes in the UK is around £13 ($16.50). Obviously, it's highly addictive, and can have health repercussions. I'll also say, I've never smoked myself, but my partner smokes, and I've known many smokers (I was the only one in my family of 5 that didn't smoke). A ban on smoking would have zero effect on me. Which on the surface makes me indifferent to the rules.

The thing is, I'd love a total ban. But I'm aware that Vapes aren't exactly healthy. Alcohol isn't healthy. Products with lots of sugar aren't healthy (which is interesting to me, since I drink Coke - and not diet Coke!) As for social health, people drive too fast, under the influence, go diving in caves - all dangerous things that can cause injury.

The key today is that we know the effects on smoking. No-one can claim they don't know the effects of Tobacco consumption. Personal choice means they can choose to use it or not. In the mean time, it's income for governments. It's not in their interest to leave money on the table. Total bans don't work. From prohibition to the drug wars - legally blocking something just isn't totally effective. It's a balance between a personal opinion as compared to another. I think smoking is nasty, smokers say otherwise. I don't agree with them, but accept they have a choice, and they chose differently.
 
Nathan said:
I guess having the "personal right" to use an addictive, deadly substance should be protected at all costs. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
So with that line of thinking, maybe all countries need to look to how Portugal decriminalized ALL drugs. Considering that it has worked in Portugal with a wonderful drop in numbers of drug addicts, maybe you're on to something.
 
Debrah N. said:
Nathan said:
I guess having the "personal right" to use an addictive, deadly substance should be protected at all costs. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
So with that line of thinking, maybe all countries need to look to how Portugal decriminalized ALL drugs. Considering that it has worked in Portugal with a wonderful drop in numbers of drug addicts, maybe you're on to something.
Click to expand...

Please do advocate for deadly/damaging lifestyle, don't let my words get in your way.
 
Buckeye said:
Can that same 15 year old buy a Big Mac or two, fries and coke? Or, heaven forbid, "Chicken" McNuggets?

What is the childhood obesity rate in the US 2023?
As of 2023, 1 in 5 children in the US are obese, with this number rising yearly. Childhood obesity is exacerbated by the lifestyle of children, where their attention is consumed by technology use at the expense of consuming nutritious foods and participating in physical activities.
Click to expand...
You know what? I've changed my mind, certainly don't want to stand in the way of people adopting life threatening lifestyles, there's nothing more exciting than dying of lung cancer or the host of metabolic illnesses that obesity brings.
...just don't whine about the cost of medical treatment or expect society to help with astronomical health bills.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top