NYC jury deadlocked in Daniel Penny subway chokehold death

Very involved in this case. Have been on subway with vicious nutcases, feeling powerful to disrupt and frighten people. I am in Daniel Penny's corner ALL THE WAY. He is a fine young man. The death of Neeley was an accident. Of course, Neely's family all ready to sue Daniel. Want Daniel FREE to live his life.
 
Pepper said:
Very involved in this case. Have been on subway with vicious nutcases, feeling powerful to disrupt and frighten people. I am in Daniel Penny's corner ALL THE WAY. He is a fine young man. The death of Neeley was an accident. Of course, Neely's family all ready to sue Daniel. Want Daniel FREE to live his life.
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Same. He deserves the “Key to the City” and more!
 

againstthegrain said:
"the killing showed the city’s inability or unwillingness to help its most vulnerable and marginalized residents."

It's truly a shame for all concerned.
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Can't help everybody, even if such services were generously offered. Unless acceptance is forced, and people forcibly removed from society.
 
In the '60s and '70s, the government at federal, state, and local levels put a lot of effort and money into treating mental health issues. Instead of unstable people being forced onto the street, instead they were forced into mental health facilities. It was deemed an epic failure at the time. Drug addicts could get drugs easily within the mental hospitals, but at least they were off the streets.

In the '80s, funding dried up. The government reduced funding for programs such as public housing, mental health services, and other social safety nets. Patients were discharged from hospitals and put out onto the streets.

I need to go make dinner. :)
 
HermitHogan said:
In the '60s and '70s, the government at federal, state, and local levels put a lot of effort and money into treating mental health issues. Instead of unstable people being forced onto the street, instead they were forced into mental health facilities. It was deemed an epic failure at the time. Drug addicts could get drugs easily within the mental hospitals, but at least they were off the streets.

In the '80s, funding dried up. The government reduced funding for programs such as public housing, mental health services, and other social safety nets. Patients were discharged from hospitals and put out onto the streets.

I need to go make dinner. :)
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Yes, there are now 10 times as many mentally ill people in prison as in mental hospitals.

Laws were changed making it nearly impossible to commit sick people to mental hospitals against their will. When your brain is the part that's sick it can be very hard to even realize that you are sick let alone voluntarily commit yourself for treatment. We wouldn't let people with Alzheimer's go out in the cold just because they said they didn't want to stay in the nursing home any longer.

What made us think that it was cruel to give ill people the hospital care they needed, but not cruel to send then, confused and disoriented out on their own?

I don't mind Daniel Perry going free. I think his intentions were good although I'm not sure the passengers on the subway were in as much danger as he thought they were, but I do think that if his victim had received the care he needed he would be alive today.
 
Della said:
Yes, there are now 10 times as many mentally ill people in prison as in mental hospitals.

Laws were changed making it nearly impossible to commit sick people to mental hospitals against their will. When your brain is the part that's sick it can be very hard to even realize that you are sick let alone voluntarily commit yourself for treatment. We wouldn't let people with Alzheimer's go out in the cold just because they said they didn't want to stay in the nursing home any longer.

What made us think that it was cruel to give ill people the hospital care they needed, but not cruel to send then, confused and disoriented out on their own?

I don't mind Daniel Perry going free. I think his intentions were good although I'm not sure the passengers on the subway were in as much danger as he thought they were, but I do think that if his victim had received the care he needed he would be alive today.
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In Manitoba a few years ago, a man bought a ticket to go on a Greyhound bus from some town. He looked sane when he got on the bus....until he went berserk, stabbed and decapitated the guy beside him and then started eating his face. Schizophrenia doesn't always give you a flashing 'I'm crazy Beware!' on your forehead. And sounds like this Neely guy wasn't acting normal at all.

'Jordan Neely, entered the subway at the Second Avenue station, slammed his jacket on the ground, and yelled that if he didn’t get some food or water, he was going to kill someone and didn’t care if he went to jail. He began getting in passenger’s faces and made threatening statements to not just men, but also women and children.

Witnesses later testified at trial that they were “terrified.”........Mr. Neely’s story embodies that of untold injustice and victimhood. When he was only 14 years old, his mother was reportedly murdered by an abusive boyfriend. Mr. Neely was placed in foster care. It was around this time that he developed schizophrenia which, I can only assume, was due in part to the psychological trauma thrust upon him. Mr. Neely’s life spiraled into a cycle of mental illness, petty arrests, substance use, and homelessness. He was a young man who needed support, love, and care. But the systems of New York City failed to fill that void..........https://www.granite-law-group.com/blog/nyc-subway-chokehold-case/
 
Debrah N. said:
In Manitoba a few years ago, a man bought a ticket to go on a Greyhound bus from some town. He looked sane when he got on the bus....until he went berserk, stabbed and decapitated the guy beside him and then started eating his face. Schizophrenia doesn't always give you a flashing 'I'm crazy Beware!' on your forehead. And sounds like this Neely guy wasn't acting normal at all.
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No people don't have, "I'm crazy beware," tattooed on their forehead. Neither do they have, "I'm a disgruntled employee" tattooed on their forehead, or "I'm mad at my mother-in-law so I'm going to shoot 26 people in her church," like the perfectly sane man in Texas.

What do you think we should do? Kill everyone because we don't know what they might do next? Or just the mentally ill people whom you erroneously believe commit most of the murders? Only six percent of homicides are committed by schizophrenics.
 
Della said:
Laws were changed making it nearly impossible to commit sick people to mental hospitals against their will. When your brain is the part that's sick it can be very hard to even realize that you are sick let alone voluntarily commit yourself for treatment. We wouldn't let people with Alzheimer's go out in the cold just because they said they didn't want to stay in the nursing home any longer.

What made us think that it was cruel to give ill people the hospital care they needed, but not cruel to send then, confused and disoriented out on their own?
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It's not impossible to commit someone who is a danger to self or others, but it's hard to keep them in. With modern meds, many with psychiatric disorders are stabilized while in treatment but the patients don't comply with meds when out and quickly destablize. The catch is, facilities can't use prior noncompliance as a reason to keep someone long-term once they're stablized. I learned this when our community was dealing with a guy with this very issue.
 
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Della said:
No people don't have, "I'm crazy beware," tattooed on their forehead. Neither do they have, "I'm a disgruntled employee" tattooed on their forehead, or "I'm mad at my mother-in-law so I'm going to shoot 26 people in her church," like the perfectly sane man in Texas.

What do you think we should do? Kill everyone because we don't know what they might do next? Or just the mentally ill people whom you erroneously believe commit most of the murders? Only six percent of homicides are committed by schizophrenics.
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You're ignoring the fact that Neely got on the train and was already wildly agitated and threatening everyone on it. Imagine yourself sitting there, minding your own business and all of a sudden this wild man is right in your face and putting you in fear for your life. Going to throw yourself between your would be saviour and your obvious attacker to protect your attacker? Or would you be grateful that someone actually stepped in to protect you and everyone else, including the children he threatened?

And the article that I read also mentioned that Neeley was a diagnosed schizophrenic who had already had numerous run ins with the law. Ignoring all of those facts, does not prove your point at all.
 
Debrah N. said:
You're ignoring the fact that Neely got on the train and was already wildly agitated and threatening everyone on it. Imagine yourself sitting there, minding your own business and all of a sudden this wild man is right in your face and putting you in fear for your life. Going to throw yourself between your would be saviour and your obvious attacker to protect your attacker? Or would you be grateful that someone actually stepped in to protect you and everyone else, including the children he threatened?

And the article that I read also mentioned that Neeley was a diagnosed schizophrenic who had already had numerous run ins with the law. Ignoring all of those facts, does not prove your point at all.
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I didn't mention Neely at all in that post and neither did you in the one I was responding to. Your point was all about people not having their issues tattooed on their forehead and that was what I was addressing.

Now you're bringing up the fact that Neely was a diagnosed schizophrenic as though that alone justifies killing him. It does not.
 
Della said:
Now you're bringing up the fact that Neely was a diagnosed schizophrenic as though that alone justifies killing him. It does not.
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It was an accidental death. Penny did not intend to kill Neely, just to stop him. Got out of hand, that's all.
 
Pepper said:
It was an accidental death. Penny did not intend to kill Neely, just to stop him. Got out of hand, that's all.
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I already said in post 13 above that I thought the killing was unintentional and that I'm glad Penny went free. I think Derek Chauvin did not intend to kill George Floyd either and that he should go free.

What I'm saying to Debrah is that we should be careful about chokeholds (had Penny never heard of George Floyd?) and that having schizophrenia does not mean people get to kill you as she implies.

We have laws in this country about what constitutes self-defense. The force should be the same or slightly more. Shouting and throwing your jacket on the floor does not justify a death hold from behind.

Neely had a history of going on the subway, turning on his music and doing his Michael Jackson impression, maybe that's why he took his jacket off.

If Daniel Perry was the brave hero so many people say he was, he would have confronted Neely and tried to talk him down before laying hands on him. I watch that tape and can't believe that the three men around him couldn't have held that skinny young guy down without having to cut off his air.
 
It’s interesting how we all see things differently, maybe that’s why we have juries. 🤔

I see Derek Chauvin as an experienced law enforcement professional that knew exactly what he was doing to George Floyd and I see Daniel Penny as a young inexperienced Good Samaritan who went too far.
 
And now Neely's family [who apparently didn't give two cents worth of damn about him all along] Suddenly think he is in death worth $100,000,000.00 , as per the law suit filed.
 

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