Pedophilia is a sickness and if you don't have that you may not judge about it

AutumnGal said:
I believe in God but I do not think one has to go to church to be a believer and follower. I've seen a lot of not so good things in church and with members. Not saying all, but some. In any religion for that matter...

I'm not knocking Catholics themselves, I know many and love many, but just requiring that priests be celibate imo is inviting trouble. And is sexual acts with minor boys celibacy?

Of course it has a moral attachment to it. At least to me it does.

That scandal should have been far bigger than it already was...

But I'm sure yeah, it was mechanical and they could not help themselves.
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Don't get me wrong in all of this... I very much agree with you and others that pedophilia is wrong on multiple levels!!
Also, that there definitely seems to be some correlation with RCC priests... but I would really understand that.
I also agree with the understanding that going to church does not make one "good"... by any stretch of the imagination.

I guess my concern is that the thread seemed leaning towards be conflating God with RCC... perhaps
I misunderstood some of the posts leading up to the ones I responded to... sorry.
 
The people who protect pedophiles are just as bad.

Recent revelations from millions of pages of unsealed files have led New Mexico officials and congressional members to accuse the federal government of stalling or hiding evidence:​
​
Congressional investigations by the House Oversight Committee recently found that the DOJ allegedly "illegally withheld" dozens of pages of FBI interviews and evidence logs.​
​
Former New Mexico Attorney General Hector Balderas stated that his office was actively investigating Zorro Ranch in 2019 but was ordered by federal prosecutors to stand down. He noted that the cooperation was "one-way"—the state provided evidence to the feds but received nothing in return.​

New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham summarized the state's position in February: “If the FBI and the DOJ won't do it, we'll do it."​
 
Ted01 said:
Don't get me wrong in all of this... I very much agree with you and others that pedophilia is wrong on multiple levels!!
Also, that there definitely seems to be some correlation with RCC priests... but I would really understand that.
I also agree with the understanding that going to church does not make one "good"... by any stretch of the imagination.

I guess my concern is that the thread seemed leaning towards be conflating God with RCC... perhaps
I misunderstood some of the posts leading up to the ones I responded to... sorry.
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You don't have to say sorry to me, maybe I took something wrong. I was not saying a thing towards you, just the subject. I probably need to learn people here as well.

And I may well have not been clear.

RCC priests certainly are not the only pedophiles in the world. And I don't conflate God with the RCC or even churches for that matter.

I've seen so many hypocrites in church in my lifetime (and not just RCC) and those on power trips I don't put a lot of store into church. I do believe in God though.

And even if someone does not, to each their own. I don't push what I believe onto others.

I looked back to see what I said but am not really sure if you took something I said personally?

I'm only talking of the subject if so.

I think a lot of things play into pedophilia but I also think there are different types who came to it from other things... I think a lot of things play into everything in this world... I'm not one to generalize much.

Anyhow, I was not saying anything towards you, just to the post and subject matter.
 
Oh and I don't conflate any church or religion with God at all. I do feel a peace when I go to church on rare occasion despite the hypocrites I know to be there. My guess is because He is there and because of His word.

I wonder if the hypocrites who attend feel that? But then that's another subject. I have several examples of those... That I've seen in my lifetime...

Anyhow, back to the topic... I think with some a lot of things play in...

Like criminal profiling, an educated guess based on a lot of things can be close but miss also because one can just generalize any group into a group that is all the same...

If that makes any sense. It probably doesn't. I'm not having my best or clearest day :(
 
Rakaia said:
Two US presidents have had child brides, three if you count one was only a little older than his bride. What was once more accepted is no longer acceptable but is still way to prevalent for my liking at least. 12,000,000 child brides per year is pretty much slavery.
About child marriage
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Which presidents are you talking about? James Monroe married a 17 year old, which was well within the standards of the time. Abigail Adams was 19 when she married, which is past the age of consent even today.
 
AutumnGal said:
I've seen so many hypocrites in church in my lifetime (and not just RCC) and those on power trips I don't put a lot of store into church. I do believe in God though.
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I've seen a lot of hypocrites outside of churches. Some of them have probably never even been inside a church.
 
gruntlabor said:
:) No, not very helpful, but maybe a little helpful. I remember one day my husband was driving along looking for a certain address. I was in the passenger seat. He slowed down, put his head outside the window to focus on the house numbers.
There was a child jumping rope. Instantly she threw aside her jump rope and took off running hell-for-leather, poor kid.
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I still don't think it is very helpful - because by far most people who sexually assault children are known to them and by far most strangers who come near children are not attempting to kidnap them.

By all means teach children not to get into cars or go anywhere with people they dont know - but not by installing fear of anyone coming near them or just being in same vicinity
 
January said:
I still don't think it is very helpful - because by far most people who sexually assault children are known to them and by far most strangers who come near children are not attempting to kidnap them.

By all means teach children not to get into cars or go anywhere with people they dont know - but not by installing fear of anyone coming near them or just being in same vicinity
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I don't know, January, no offense, but we all have our own ways of dealing with these things, which is as it should be.
I would just say to the creeps who would like to interact with our children: Don't speak to our children, don't ask, "Have you seen my little brown dog?" or "Can you tell me where Birch Street is?" Don't look at them, or smile at them, or touch them. Pull that crap around here and you'll meet your ancestors.
Anyone known to us, well, that's on us.
 
January said:
They might not neccesarily even have to get rid of pedophile feelings - as long as they don't act on them

How people feel doesn't matter - it is what they do.
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Yes I mean the ones who did something and are sorry, but the criminals he interviews don't even sound human. I couldn't watch that. That former serial killer Son of Sam got saved, friendly and normal. But these are calculating. One got a wife on purpose so they'd get kids he could abuse when she died.
Might as well interview satan and give him 5 years with an ankle bracelet.
 
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January said:
I still don't think it is very helpful - because by far most people who sexually assault children are known to them and by far most strangers who come near children are not attempting to kidnap them.

By all means teach children not to get into cars or go anywhere with people they dont know - but not by installing fear of anyone coming near them or just being in same vicinity
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Exactly. That's right. I remember that my parents told me as a very young child not to go with strangers who promise to buy me some sweets. In the early till mid 1960s there was a German serial killer who raped and killed boys.

Jürgen Bartsch - Wikipedia
 
It's such a fine line, hard line. I don't think most want to instill fear of everything and everyone in their children. And make them think the whole world is a scary place BUT they do also need to be aware, sadly.

Like many of us when I was a child it was mostly about a stranger offering you candy... That seems so dated now and of course so darned long ago.

I didn't tell my kids much of anything as maybe like some of an olderl age (?) I felt I lived in a safe small area... Not when they were little anyhow... Naivete. A feeling of safety.

By the time they were in double digits I did say something though, I can't recall at what age, maybe early teens. I followed more news and was starting to watch some crime. Of course news was fear induced of course even then. But I told them if anyone ever tries to get you into a car, you scream, you run, you do anything you can. IF you can. Even if they have a knife, gun, etc... Because chances are 99 percent if you end up in that car you are dead anyhow so don't even let a gun stop you IF you can run or fight or yell. They generally do NOT want to be noticed, caught, have noise made, etc.

My kids are in their 40s now and they have told me many a time that has stuck with them, even as adults.

Of course that doesn't cover the nasty people kids might run into in everyday life who work at schools, drive the bus, are a leader at a church, etc..

I consider it good advice to this day though. One of my interests is crime and once you are with that person that intends to harm/kill you, gotten into their car, your options are limited.

My one child has told me many a time she considers that good advice she takes to heart to this day. The topic has never come up with my other child but I'd think it impacted her the same, I just don't see her as much for a sit down good conversation, we live in different areas. One lives near me, the other doesn't.

Anyhow, not totally on point here and rambling a bit and it sure doesn't cover all possibilities but it is one thing that really stayed with the one child for sure. To this day. And she being older now too has watched and followed some things too and totally agrees with that. That if someone is trying to get you into a vehicle it more than likely is not going to end well if you end up in that vehicle.

Of course as the years have went on, I have more and more worries about our world and the odds of something happening. But mine are well into adulthood now, into their 40s so then I worried about my grandchildren... With more knowledge of such things...

But it bites that we have to instill fear into little children or older children or children at all.. That one has to feel they can't ride their bikes or walk to school a few blocks and so on... Can't play in their own yard...
 
George1959 said:
Exactly. That's right. I remember that my parents told me as a very young child not to go with strangers who promise to buy me some sweets. In the early till mid 1960s there was a German serial killer who raped and killed boys.

Jürgen Bartsch - Wikipedia
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Bartsch initially refused any surgery but finally agreed to voluntary castration on 28 April 1976, in order to avoid lifetime incarceration in a mental hospital. This was about ten years after his incarceration, two years after his marriage, and after his depressive condition did not improve. The doctors of Eickelborn State Hospital chose a castration methodology that accidentally killed him. An official autopsy and investigation determined that Bartsch had been intoxicated with a halothane overdose (factor 10) due to a mistake during surgery.

I wonder if they accidentally did that on purpose.
 
gruntlabor said:
I don't know, January, no offense, but we all have our own ways of dealing with these things, which is as it should be.
I would just say to the creeps who would like to interact with our children: Don't speak to our children, don't ask, "Have you seen my little brown dog?" or "Can you tell me where Birch Street is?" Don't look at them, or smile at them, or touch them. Pull that crap around here and you'll meet your ancestors.
Anyone known to us, well, that's on us.
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A kid from primary school came play with my son twice a week for at least a year. I brought him back often with my bike, so they didn't have to pick him up. The few times my son played there they'd just sit inside and let the kids play outside and had no idea what they were doing.

So one day I picked him up. He could only play 2 hours and then when I picked him up that boy and also other neighbour kids with parents sitting inside joined to play. One day, playing under a bridge, I was sitting on a bench in the sun, he thought it was fun to show his butt to the other kids when my son was filming with my phone.

Then he ran to his dad to tell him and I got the dad on my neck, barking that I had to remove it now (hadn't even seen it) and that I should not put it on youtube. So I asked: Were you sitting cosily inside on your ass? If the free nanny does something wrong, just say so. So that was the last time they played together. I removed the video while he looked and joked to the kids at home: What a pity. We could have made big money with Thijs' butt.

I couldn't even really get mad at the man for his paranoia because there are so many pedo's nowadays and the convicted ones are protected and can live wherever. A year later I met his mom in the swimming pool and she said sorry. Oh never mind.
 
Messy said:
Bartsch initially refused any surgery but finally agreed to voluntary castration on 28 April 1976, in order to avoid lifetime incarceration in a mental hospital. This was about ten years after his incarceration, two years after his marriage, and after his depressive condition did not improve. The doctors of Eickelborn State Hospital chose a castration methodology that accidentally killed him. An official autopsy and investigation determined that Bartsch had been intoxicated with a halothane overdose (factor 10) due to a mistake during surgery.

I wonder if they accidentally did that on purpose.
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You have a bright mind. What would you think if I tell you that one week before his surgery the same surgeon did an operation on a woman who also died of an overdose of halothane? I read this in a book about Bartsch. To me it's clear that the first surgery that killed the poor woman was the rehearsal. Nevertheless the surgeon, "the judge in white", was never prosecuted.
 
January said:
They might not neccesarily even have to get rid of pedophile feelings - as long as they don't act on them

How people feel doesn't matter - it is what they do.
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Most sensible comment I've read. Humans curb urges all the time so we can live within moral, legal and societal norms. When and why has it become OK to be a law breaker because "we just couldn't help ourself"?

The reason pedophiles sneak into kids rooms at night or snatch kids or groom kids in secret is because they KNOW it's WRONG.

It's not a mental illness, it's a moral violation and offenders should be punished without out mercy.
 
Irishdude said:
Which presidents are you talking about? James Monroe married a 17 year old, which was well within the standards of the time. Abigail Adams was 19 when she married, which is past the age of consent even today.
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I didn't name anyone because I was relying on memory. I can't find what I was looking at last time and I have searched a fair bit trying to find something that can be verified or rebutted, so for the meantime you're free to regard that as a erroneous post.
 
Rakaia said:
I totally disagree and this is a hill I would die on.
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Me too. It was something someone said and it irritated me. I've just been reading about a German from the 60s 70s, Bartsch. He murdered the first one with 15. They said it was a devil in human form. Even back then he got treated like a poor sweet victim. All the normal people hated him. Who decided that he could get a psychologist? They wanted a life long sentence, but he only got 10 years in a neat mental facility with group therapy, where he married a nurse.
 
Messy said:
Me too. It was something someone said and it irritated me. I've just been reading about a German from the 60s 70s, Bartsch. He murdered the first one with 15. They said it was a devil in human form. Even back then he got treated like a poor sweet victim. All the normal people hated him. Who decided that he could get a psychologist? They wanted a life long sentence, but he only got 10 years in a neat mental facility with group therapy, where he married a nurse.
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It was a little more complicated.

The nurse had been dealt a rough hand in life. She had a clubfoot. She began writing to Bartsch in prison. But at first, he wanted nothing to do with her. It wasn’t until some time had passed that they began writing to each other regularly. She married him because, supposedly, his chances of being released would be better then and after his castration.
 
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