Persecution of christians in the West

Dr.Colosso

Dr.Colosso

Member

It has automatic translation. This just happened in the Netherlands. The mayor forbid him to have a church service and the police picked him up. Pulled him out of the building. He said: We wait and go on with the service and will cooperate if they come with the police.

Torben Söndergaard already warned for it. He fled from Denmark to America because they wanted to steal his children because he kicked out demons when he prayed for people. Then in America he was in prison for a year, but a christian guy in the govt helped him to get out and loads of guys in that detention centre got saved.

Germany:


 

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Is religion just another form of politics? Both religion and politics involve core dogmas, ideologies, and worldviews that their followers hold with ardour and faith. Adherents often believe their perspective is the only truth and may seek to spread it or apply it universally.
Religions provide a moral code and a sense of virtue and vice that often inform a person's entire view of the world. When individuals, including politicians, act on these deeply held beliefs, their faith inevitably impinges on public policy and law. Many historical and contemporary examples show religion as the very basis of political ideology and a powerful source of moral vision for social movements, such as the civil rights movement.

Both create strong community ties and a sense of belonging. In some cases, faith can be turned into a tribal identity, where belonging to one group often means defining oneself in opposition to others, mirroring partisan political divisions. Critics argue that religion has historically been used as a political tool for social control and maintaining the status quo, for example, by promising rewards in the afterlife rather than encouraging political action to improve conditions in this life. When intertwined, religious institutions can become a power in their own right with worldly, not just spiritual, concerns. Both systems often feature strong figureheads or authorities whom followers are expected to trust and obey.
 
horseless carriage said:
Is religion just another form of politics? Both religion and politics involve core dogmas, ideologies, and worldviews that their followers hold with ardour and faith. Adherents often believe their perspective is the only truth and may seek to spread it or apply it universally.
Religions provide a moral code and a sense of virtue and vice that often inform a person's entire view of the world. When individuals, including politicians, act on these deeply held beliefs, their faith inevitably impinges on public policy and law. Many historical and contemporary examples show religion as the very basis of political ideology and a powerful source of moral vision for social movements, such as the civil rights movement.

Both create strong community ties and a sense of belonging. In some cases, faith can be turned into a tribal identity, where belonging to one group often means defining oneself in opposition to others, mirroring partisan political divisions. Critics argue that religion has historically been used as a political tool for social control and maintaining the status quo, for example, by promising rewards in the afterlife rather than encouraging political action to improve conditions in this life. When intertwined, religious institutions can become a power in their own right with worldly, not just spiritual, concerns. Both systems often feature strong figureheads or authorities whom followers are expected to trust and obey.
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The only thing I believe makes religion the same as politics is the need for people to fight about it. Even Christians fighting with other Christians over beliefs.

For me religion and faith are two completely different things. I have never found religion to create a strong community bond for me. I do better with Him one on one. I'm sure there are times religion has been used as a tool for various reasons. The only person I trust and am willing to obey is God. I'm in no way perfect when it comes to that.

And in actuality denying people their religious rights is a form of social control. Non believers don't want to hear about God and don't want to see any evidence of him so they do what they can to silence believers in certain scenarios. At work, school, and often times in public places.

I imagine there are some Christians who want to be in opposition of others but they're supposed to be loving and kind. Judgement clouds their minds and affects their behavior. Not all Christians are the same so being lumped into one segment as being a divisive force is not really appropriate in my opinion.

Often peoples idea of what Chrisitianity is can often interfere with them understanding what it is and what God expects of us. JMO. I'm now out of this discussion before it turns to crap.
 
horseless carriage said:
Is religion just another form of politics? Both religion and politics involve core dogmas, ideologies, and worldviews that their followers hold with ardour and faith. Adherents often believe their perspective is the only truth and may seek to spread it or apply it universally.
Religions provide a moral code and a sense of virtue and vice that often inform a person's entire view of the world. When individuals, including politicians, act on these deeply held beliefs, their faith inevitably impinges on public policy and law. Many historical and contemporary examples show religion as the very basis of political ideology and a powerful source of moral vision for social movements, such as the civil rights movement.

Both create strong community ties and a sense of belonging. In some cases, faith can be turned into a tribal identity, where belonging to one group often means defining oneself in opposition to others, mirroring partisan political divisions. Critics argue that religion has historically been used as a political tool for social control and maintaining the status quo, for example, by promising rewards in the afterlife rather than encouraging political action to improve conditions in this life. When intertwined, religious institutions can become a power in their own right with worldly, not just spiritual, concerns. Both systems often feature strong figureheads or authorities whom followers are expected to trust and obey.
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They can use it in politics of course but these guys are not in politics. In Holland, didn't the founding fathers from America hide in Holland, there was always freedom of religion here. No it was the pilgrims. Looked it up. But we were a pioneer and we fought for religious freedom.

Most of the country is atheist. Christian party is super tiny. That they picked a preacher up here from a building is insane. They have never done that. They wouldn't dare pick up an Imam from a mosque. Maybe if he preached hate (which I doubt), but not if he doesn't do anything against the law. Germany same thing and that's way more evil cause they beat him up for nothing. Someone lied. At least our police isn't agressive.
 
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MarciKS said:
They don't believe because they can't see God. They fear what they can't see or understand so they feel their only option is to silence it. But God will have the last word. And that they will see and hear according to the Bible. But this is what happens when people are blind.
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But this is hate. I shouldn't be surprised. Jesus said it already. But I got so used to just living chill in the West. Freedom to believe whatever you want. Mocking it. Making jokes. It was all fine. But this is another level.

It's nothing compared to Sudan, but still. I'm afraid it's a start. The granddaughter from Maria von Trapp said on Facebook that she saw the same things happen that happened in Germany and Austria before the war.
 
RadishRose said:
this makes no sense.
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They framed him on tv. There was an autistic boy crying because he wanted to go swimming when he baptized people in a tiny plastic pool. They said the kid was scared and wetting himself because he was so afraid because he also kicked out demons.

Then you get the child services. Child abuse. He had to go to prison and they'd take his kids from him, so he fled to America.
They do that in Denmark, Sweden or Norway and the Netherlands. It was a huge scandal here, not because of this reason, but they just don't care about the truth. They stole loads of kids. A lot died. People fled to Africa even with their kids. White Dutch people fleeing to Africa because they were falsely accused of stealing tax benefits for childcare.

There was an autistic boy in the Netherlands. His Australian dad and I think Russian mom closed the curtains for him. That is a big sin here. Busybody neighbours called these ... on them. Kid taken and put in an institution. He told em how they could escape and they fled to Poland.

Family with autistic son seek asylum in Poland after fleeing Netherlands

Polish court protects family rights. Dutch boy to remain in Poland - ordoiuris.pl
 
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horseless carriage said:
Is religion just another form of politics? Both religion and politics involve core dogmas, ideologies, and worldviews that their followers hold with ardour and faith. Adherents often believe their perspective is the only truth and may seek to spread it or apply it universally.
Click to expand...
Leaders have used it to maintain power over others for thousands of years.
horseless carriage said:
Religions provide a moral code and a sense of virtue and vice that often inform a person's entire view of the world. When individuals, including politicians, act on these deeply held beliefs, their faith inevitably impinges on public policy and law. Many historical and contemporary examples show religion as the very basis of political ideology and a powerful source of moral vision for social movements, such as the civil rights movement.
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Yes, it's the foundation of governments all over the globe; various religion-based tenets for various governments. It's why most western governments specifically include the constitutional rule of "separation of church and state."
horseless carriage said:
Both create strong community ties and a sense of belonging. In some cases, faith can be turned into a tribal identity, where belonging to one group often means defining oneself in opposition to others, mirroring partisan political divisions. Critics argue that religion has historically been used as a political tool for social control and maintaining the status quo,
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Oops...yeah, I said that up there^.

Here in the US, primarily due to politically motivated mainstream news media, our largest purveyor of a product called "information," the word Christian evokes an image of an old, white, Bible-thumpin', gun-totin', racially prejudiced, red-hat redneck.
I'm seeing that in several other "western" countries, too.
 
Murrmurr said:
n the US, primarily due to politically motivated mainstream news media, our largest purveyor of a product called "information," the word Christian evokes an image of an old, white, Bible-thumpin', gun-totin', racially prejudiced, red-hat redneck.
I'm seeing that in several other "western" countries, too.
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Well, your image of a Christian in USA sounds off as blacks claim a much higher % of people claiming to be a Christian compared to Whites, Hispanics, or Asians according to Pew Research study from 2023 - 2024.

Are you sure your own prejudices are not what has formed your image of a Christian? There are many Christians that are not old, not gun-totin', or racially prejudiced.

I would like you define a red hat redneck for me before I can gauge where that category might fit into the Christianity spectrum.
 
Tom52 said:
Well, your image of a Christian in USA sounds off as blacks claim a much higher % of people claiming to be a Christian compared to Whites, Hispanics, or Asians according to Pew Research study from 2023 - 2024.

Are you sure your own prejudices are not what has formed your image of a Christian? There are many Christians that are not old, not gun-totin', or racially prejudiced.

I would like you define a red hat redneck for me before I can gauge where that category might fit into the Christianity spectrum.
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In fact, there are many Christians who I would never believe are Christians at all.
 
Tom52 said:
Well, your image of a Christian in USA sounds off as blacks claim a much higher % of people claiming to be a Christian compared to Whites, Hispanics, or Asians according to Pew Research study from 2023 - 2024.

Are you sure your own prejudices are not what has formed your image of a Christian? There are many Christians that are not old, not gun-totin', or racially prejudiced.

I would like you define a red hat redneck for me before I can gauge where that category might fit into the Christianity spectrum.
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I wasn't describing my personal image of Christians. By "...in the US, primarily due to politically motivated mainstream news media...the word Christian evokes [that image]," I meant that, that image has become common here.
 
Murrmurr said:
I wasn't describing my personal image of Christians. By "...in the US, primarily due to politically motivated mainstream news media...the word Christian evokes [that image]," I meant that, that image has become common here.
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Not only in the U.S. Also in Germany the mainstream media (which are left or even far left) create the image of the "right-wing white, racist and dangerous evangelics" in the USA.
 
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Rakaia said:
If you consider there may be an element of DARVO then it could be that they're claiming victim status. It also begs questions about the supposed kicking out of the demons.
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Street preacher accused of smuggling arms from Mexico | God Reports

Street preacher accused of smuggling arms from Mexico​

July 6, 2022


By Michael Ashcraft –
Friends are expressing dismay that a Danish man who works tirelessly spreading the gospel around the world has been arrested in America over charges of smuggling arms from Mexico into America.
“Today Torben (Søndergaard) is sitting in jail because somebody made a false accusation against him, something that is not true,” says Jón Bjarnastein on a Facebook post on The Last Reformation page.

“It’s because he’s preaching the gospel. This is nothing new under the sun. The Bible says that everyone who wants to live a godly life will experience persecution.”
Torben Søndergaard fled Denmark in 2019 after repeated attacks by the government to discredit his street ministry, which riled secularists by casting out demons in public places.

If you don’t believe in the supernatural, much less demons, then one might think Torben is a manipulative charlatan. He applied for asylum in America and now is being detained by Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Sondergaard does water baptisms
“I was invited to a meeting with Homeland Security who wanted to talk about my asylum case – a case where I, in Denmark three years ago, was accused of doing many things I had not done, and where I ended up fleeing to America seeking asylum,” he wrote on Facebook. “But then, they suddenly said that the real reason I was there was because they had been notified that I was smuggling weapons from Mexico to America.

“I was in shock.”
The accusation of arms running is strange because the illegal flow of weapons is generally southward, from America to Mexico. America is a manufacturer of arms, not an importer. What America imports illegally from Mexico is drugs, not weapons. CBN says the Department of Homeland Security had no comment on the case.

Doing ministry in Denmark for 18 years, Søndergaard, 45, founded the Last Reformation street evangelism movement with the purpose of restoring Book of Acts-style ministry. His Jesus Center trained disciples from 30 nations to spread the gospel worldwide, CBN reports.
But authorities in secularist Denmark didn’t like him and, starting in 2016, launched investigations from six separate Danish ministries into everything from food safety to unpaid taxes. They found nothing wrong, CBN reports.

The persecution continued when Søndergaard decided to homeschool his daughter. Seeking an abatement from the persecution, Sondergaard re-enrolled her in public school. But the attacks continued.

Danish TV approached him about doing a profile on his ministry. Having nothing to hide and thinking it might be positive, Søndergaard cooperated.
But it was a hit piece. One undercover journalist pretended to be a convert seeking baptism and another pretended to be mentally ill.

Søndergaard was depicted on national TV as an abuser of children, of mentally instability and as a quack who takes medicine away from sick people. The “documentary” was called “God’s Best Children,” painted Søndergaard as yet another errant minister in the long line of religious leaders who had failed ethically or morally in the past.
“I’m finished,” Søndergaard thought when he saw the video. “No one will ever trust me again.”

His reputation irreparably harmed, Søndergaard moved to America in 2019 and applied for asylum.
He never expected the persecution to follow him. Søndergaard’s hands and feet were shackled as he was questioned about the supposed arms smuggling.

Living in California, he had traveled into Mexico to set up a Bible school, he says. He also has a Bible school in Florida.
“I have never had anything to do with smuggling weapons,” he says. “I know nothing about smuggling weapons.”


Søndergaard is being held in ICE’s Baker County Detention Center in MacClenny, FL. At last word from The Last Reformation’s Facebook page, Søndergaard had retained legal counsel and will meet with him soon.
Fellow Danish street preacher René Celinder has no doubt the allegations against his friend Søndergaard are patently false.
“I have known him for more than 15 years. We have been on the street together. He is preaching the gospel,” Cylinder vouched. “The accusations are not true. No, never. He don’t (sic) know how to use a gun. He is only giving the gospel.”
 

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