Plants Can Tell When They're Being Eaten. What Will The Vegans Do.

SifuPhil said:
The problem with a vegan lifestyle, at least as I've come to understand it, is that unless you are very knowledgeable about vegan food it is difficult to almost impossible to ingest enough correct proteins to remain healthy. Yes, you can eat beans until you become your own wind-energy source, but it isn't a balanced source.

Just about every true vegan that I've met in over 50 years has looked like a skeleton - that cannot be any healthier than a carnivore looking like a pregnant water buffalo. The ones that look "normal" are usually not true vegans.

Plus, our teeth are a big hint that we are meant to consume meat ... we have more than just molars ...
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No it's not difficult to impossible to eat healthy on a vegan lifestyle. Every last food has the kinds of enzymes that make up protein and your amazing body has the ability to combine them as needed to provide the protein necessary. Even grass has 'proteins' in it otherwise horses couldn't get as big and strong as they are. Peanut butter on brown toast is a complete protein. Rice and beans is a complete protein. Quinoa is a complete protein. A lentil stew with a handful of green peas in it would provide you with complete proteins. I'm a vegan now for almost 8 years, and I'm not a skeleton. My weight though is exactly what it was when I was 22 and I have well developed muscle despite my almost 60 years on this earth. And I guarantee you, I am a true vegan. Haven't touched ANY animal products in the past 8 years and before that I was vegetarian for about 15.

Heck my husband is 63 years old and he doesn't have the same stomach on him that his brother and his best friend have and my husband has been eating my cooking all along. His weight is wonderful for his age (and he's totally sedentary by the way) and this year when the doctor did the complete blood panels like they like to do for us oldsters, both our 'numbers' came out perfect. In fact my doctor expressed to me that he wished his numbers were as good.

As for the teeth issue, complete fiction that they prove we are carnivores. We have teeth that are more like horses teeth including the teensy little 'canines' that are actually more useful for stripping plant fibbers apart then for ripping out the throat of some terrified animal. If you Google 'wolf teeth horses" you will discover that they also have teeny little 'canines' but that doesn't mean they are carnivores. Our molars are flat for grinding our food, the front teeth for biting into fruits and veggies and our jaws move side to side like a cows or a horses and our jaws are not as strong as a carnivores.

That's not to say that we aren't able to eat meat, but truly our physiology is more herbivorous in design than carnivorous and that includes intestines, stomach acids, salivary acids, etc.
 

Ralphy1 said:
I'm sticking mine in boiling water from now on just like I do lobsters...
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Did you know that lobsters feel every bit of pain from that?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...26ea9e-9e59-11e3-b8d8-94577ff66b28_story.html



And rkunsaw, I think 'prejudice' is an incorrect word to use. Almost all who chose a vegan lifestyle do it for reasons of compassion which is totally different from being 'prejudiced' against meat. We don't want to be involved in the violence of animal use or the causes of suffering.
 
rkunsaw said:
I'm getting hungry. Time for some bacon and eggs.
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When people say things like this I'm reminded of an image I saw once. It was a video of a pig farmer doing away with a sickly young pig. He stood on it's chest so that it couldn't breath and it thrashed in fear and terror as it struggled to escape, to breathe, until finally it didn't struggle anymore. It was tragic and it was not an unusual occurrence because that kind of brutality goes on in every barn across the country.
 
The chicken is making a contribution...the pig is making a sacrifice.

174%20pig.jpg
 
Believe what you will, but that sort of thing doesn't happen. Humans are meant to eat meat and plants. If you prefer to eat like a sheep you are free to do so. Just don't put the rest of us down with some pretense of protecting animals. I am an animal lover.
 
I visit the health shop quite frequently...why is it the staff have all got greasy hair..zits..and are as white as a pint of milk..

They look ill!!
 
Meanderer said:
The chicken is making a contribution...the pig is making a sacrifice.

174%20pig.jpg
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If you look at some videos of how egg layers are raised, you will see that they are making far more than just a contribution. Their lives are horrendous, filthy and painful and end in transport for up to 26 hours to processing plants where they are subjected to further pain.

A hen who spends her entire life in a darkened shed, laying eggs every day and getting absolutely no exercise will always suffer from severe osteoporosis so when they are being dragged out of the cages and thrown into the transport cages, broken bones are frequent and I believe can amount to about 24% of those birds having broken bones while they are being manhandled.

Not to mention that the air inside those sheds is filled with ammonia and dust that sees workers wearing masks to protect their lungs but the birds get no relief. Too frequently too, hens die in those cages and their bodies are not removed and so you will have six hens squeezed into a cage with the rotting corpse of their 'sister'.

What's more, sometimes to boost egg production, they are starved for up to fourteen days. This causes the hens to moult and then once the moult is done, egg production resumes and it's often better than it was prior. However, the life expectancy of a laying hen is still only about 72 weeks or one year from the time they begin laying to the time they are trucked for slaughter.

None of this sounds like a contribution. To me it sounds more like torture over a period of 72 weeks.
 
I thought I heard that palm tree say something when it fell after being cut down,Ill use a tape recorder for the next tree.

I swear it said "TIMBERRRRR"!!!!!.
 
Twixie said:
I visit the health shop quite frequently...why is it the staff have all got greasy hair..zits..and are as white as a pint of milk..

They look ill!!
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First of all, do you know for sure that all those people are vegan or even vegetarian? Just because they work in a health food store is no guarantee that they are.

Second of all, everybody is different and even on what would be considered an optimum meat inclusive diet, you can have people who are overweight, have bad complexions, etc. You have to take into account what other types of foods they may indulge in. Too much sugar, too much wheat, too much alcohol, etc. can affect not only the meat eater but also the veg'n. You have to take into account genetics as well, some folks have more sensitive skin than others or allergies that show up in their appearance, etc.

And for every sickly looking vegan, I can show you 1000 meat eaters who look awful. My husbands brother for one and his best friend for another. They both have huge bellies that make even tying their shoes difficult and the friend is diabetic. Our neighbours across the street also have terrible health and they eat meat.

And to tell you the truth, I can give you links to at least a dozen studies that show that a plant only diet is better in terms of health outcomes than a meat inclusive diet. Here are only four of them:

- Mayo Clinic: Vegetarian Diet and diabetes
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/diabetes/AN00845


- Journal of the American College of Nutrition: Vegan Diets and Cardiovascular Health
http://www.jacn.org/content/17/5/407.full


University of Oxford: Veg diet reduces heart disease risk by up to 1/3
http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2013/ 130130.html


Pub Med: Vegan proteins may reduce risk of cancer, obesity and cardiovascular disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10687887



Recently I read an interesting article that said that a study seems to indicate that the gladiators of ancient Rome (all fierce and strong men) subsisted on a vegetarian diet. If so and taking into consideration the large numbers of modern athletes who exist on a plant diet, it would appear that it's entirely possible to be in prime condition from a veg. diet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/24/the-diet-of-roman-gladiat_n_6044622.html


 
rkunsaw;[FONT=arial black said:
Humans are meant to eat meat and plant152928]Believe what you will, but that sort of thing doesn't happen. s.[/FONT] If you prefer to eat like a sheep you are free to do so. Just don't put the rest of us down with some pretense of protecting animals. I am an animal lover.
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Sez Who ??? God ??
 
rkunsaw said:
This I agree with, Debby. ( scary isn't it?) That's why I raised my own chickens for years and now buy free range eggs locally.
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Why is it scary to agree on what is truth? ( I know, you're just being lighthearted in your comment) I have a couple hens too but they were rescues from a friend who was moving from farm to town and didn't know what to do with the last two of her chickens so I gave them a home about four years ago.
 
I think when you 'love' something, you do what you can to not cause it to suffer. Animal using industries do little in that regard. Cows loose their babies, chickens languish crammed into filthy darkened sheds, sows are immobilized their entire lives, piglets are operated on while awake and without painkillers, and when any of these helpless animals are transported, it can take place over several days during which time they get no food or water. Love?

As for the post that started this all, plants feeling pain? Well they don't have nerve ends to transmit 'pain' signals, they don't have brains or pain receptors to receive pain signals and they never evolved feet, fins or wings to escape 'pain'. Animals on the other hand did evolve with all of those.

Is it not more likely that the movements of chemicals in plants at the time a leaf is cut or whatever is a response to a drop in 'hydraulic' pressure. A couple months ago, we took our tractor into the woods, down a slope and inadvertently hit a rock on the underside. An hour later, we discovered the puddle of hydraulic fluid underneath the tractor. Nothing was actually broken except how a seal or gasket was sitting at that joint and the little opening that resulted was enough for the pressure inside the lines to force the fluid to run out.
 
7jVJtJz.jpg


My SeniorSneakers trainer is a serious vegan, is 57 but could easily 'pass' for being 37. I'm trying to move away from traditional fat-salt-sugar laden eating to more healthy cuisine, but I'll always eat meat, just much less red....alot more chickens.
 
rkunsaw said:
Believe what you will, but that sort of thing doesn't happen. Humans are meant to eat meat and plants. If you prefer to eat like a sheep you are free to do so. Just don't put the rest of us down with some pretense of protecting animals. I am an animal lover.
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I'm assuming this comment is a response to mine concerning the image that I've seen. You don't believe it doesn't happen? Well I took the time to find the image I mentioned and here it is. And this video is similar to several that have been broadcasted on a Canadian news program that is called W5, in the past year. The Canadian videos were by Mercy For Animals Canada and show what is typical in pig barns across the nation. It is violent and it is disturbing so you are forewarned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOHrnhIS2H4
 
tnthomas said:
7jVJtJz.jpg


My SeniorSneakers trainer is a serious vegan, is 57 but could easily 'pass' for being 37. I'm trying to move away from traditional fat-salt-sugar laden eating to more healthy cuisine, but I'll always eat meat, just much less red....alot more chickens.
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That might be nice for you, but you should know that chickens suffer far more than beef cattle do. At least the beef cattle spend a portion of their lives on grassy pastures and even in the feedlots, at least they have air to breathe minus the fecal content in the dust.
 
Debby said:
If you look at some videos of how egg layers are raised, you will see that they are making far more than just a contribution. Their lives are horrendous, filthy and painful and end in transport for up to 26 hours to processing plants where they are subjected to further pain.

A hen who spends her entire life in a darkened shed, laying eggs every day and getting absolutely no exercise will always suffer from severe osteoporosis so when they are being dragged out of the cages and thrown into the transport cages, broken bones are frequent and I believe can amount to about 24% of those birds having broken bones while they are being manhandled.

Not to mention that the air inside those sheds is filled with ammonia and dust that sees workers wearing masks to protect their lungs but the birds get no relief. Too frequently too, hens die in those cages and their bodies are not removed and so you will have six hens squeezed into a cage with the rotting corpse of their 'sister'.

What's more, sometimes to boost egg production, they are starved for up to fourteen days. This causes the hens to moult and then once the moult is done, egg production resumes and it's often better than it was prior. However, the life expectancy of a laying hen is still only about 72 weeks or one year from the time they begin laying to the time they are trucked for slaughter.

None of this sounds like a contribution. To me it sounds more like torture over a period of 72 weeks.
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You sound like a person who is obsessed!
 
Meanderer said:
You sound like a person who is obsessed!
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No, I'm someone who likes to KNOW about the things that touch my heart so I researched thoroughly even as I was making changes in my own life. I always thought that I 'love animals' but when I began to realize how animals are treated by people, I began to realize that more accurately, I love some animals (dogs, kitties, pets, horses) and others I only liked but not well enough to quit being part of their suffering.....until finally I was ready to really love all of them.
 
Debby..I worked in a meaty environment..i love animals..I love children to the point I have fostered 12 of them...I have ''saved'' horses from the abbatoir...i have fostered many dogs until a suitable owner can be found...

It is not a dislike of animals..some animals are just made to be eaten!!
 
living "stuff" has a measurable force field around called Kirlian. Its measured by a difference in applied voltage against a known background voltage. Regardless of the pro and cons, plants treated with pesticides, and/or cooked show a lower field than raw. Since "talking" is just a form of communication, which requires an alphabet (information and coding theory) yes plants do "talk". Their alphabet is chemical, of which other plants and insects are can read. Humans are too dumb -- except for stuff like poison ivy, etc. And not ignoring that pot users "talk" to their stashes all the time.


The presence of estrogen mimicking chemicals in everything we eat, (estrogen toxicity) is a more important topic, than vegan vs. the other guys. Low iron is the biggest health problem in the world, meat helps.


I feel sorry for the snakes, pigs eat.

we should eat tourists, after all their is a season on them.
 
Remember all the plants the animals ate before they were killed.

Really this gets on my nerves. I can't win anywhere. The vegans don't like me because I'm overweight (so therefore I'm a poor example and as someone else put it "bad for business) and I don't fit in anywhere else much.

I've come to the conclusion that veganism is a business to many organizations. Just another money maker for some. And a real commitment for others.
 
Twixie said:
Debby..I worked in a meaty environment..i love animals..I love children to the point I have fostered 12 of them...I have ''saved'' horses from the abbatoir...i have fostered many dogs until a suitable owner can be found...

It is not a dislike of animals..some animals are just made to be eaten!!
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Well it's wonderful that you have helped the way you have.
 
Everyone has a different opinion. I think that is healthy!
 

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