Police shootings, everything from suicide by cop to 'getting away with murder'.

Rakaia

Rakaia

Senior Member
Location
Joondalup
The thread about the jailed Minnesotan cop has morphed into a discussion about Police shootings, so I thought I'd start this thread.
First and foremost this is not about any one country or jurisdiction, it's about when Police use deadly force on an individual or group of people.
Suicide by cop is a well known phenomenon, people set themselves up so the the cops have little to no option other than to shoot them.
'Ya get that...'
There are also cases where the cops shoot people and the circumstances and justification are less clear, nervous young cops, edgy older cops, uncooperative individuals, are all scenarios which increase the likelihood of guns being discharged.
Getting away with murder, deny deny deny but 'Yeah. Ya get that too...'
In the last few days the FBI have arrested a conspiracy theorist in Arizona because of his connections to a a Police shooting here in Aussie, this started with 2 cops and a civilian getting shot by some local nutters.
Donald Day has been arrested in connection with the Wieambilla terror attack. Here's what we know
 

Cops in America have a very very difficult job. They are dealing with the worst of the worst among us. In modern times, people have become more confrontational. This complicates interactions. We should never forget that cops are expected to handle others in the worst possible circumstances.

Now, in every profession there are good and bad people. There are good cops and bad cops. It couldn't possibly be any other way. Cops are hired from the same society they're living in, it's to be expected. We simply need to weed them out, remove and/or prosecute those who commit crime.

That said, they're under extreme pressure a lot of the time. They're making decisions in real-time. They also help to keep this crazy society functional. Without cops we'd be in one heck of a mess. You've got to give them privilege in order to work. Every case is unique, but the bigger worry to me is that things will get so difficult, cops won't be able to do their job.
 
That's why I don't call cops for 'minor' stuff. Like the crazy woman in the shared AAR who head butted me. Like the worker who tried to get me to fall down when I demanded use of an elevator. Minor stuff. Everyone told me to call the cops. I did not. That was too small. Cops can't be arbiters. They're busy with real stuff. I would never bother cops, I only would call them for life/death stuff.
 

Within 8 hours of arriving in LA I had a cop pull a gun on me, I went to a restaurant next to my motel and had a meal & a bottomless cup of coffee. Surprise, surprise I couldn't sleep, so I got up and went for a walk at 3.00AM. I was dressed in jeans & a black t-shirt, as I was window shopping I heard a voice behind me, I had my hands in my pockets as I turned around to see a cop looking over the top of his car with a gun pointed at me. I slowly pulled my hands out of my pockets & showed him empty hands while I spoke in the strongest Kiwi accent I could, that defused the situation quite effectively, welcome to the USA...
 
Rakaia said:
Within 8 hours of arriving in LA I had a cop pull a gun on me, I went to a restaurant next to my motel and had a meal & a bottomless cup of coffee. Surprise, surprise I couldn't sleep, so I got up and went for a walk at 3.00AM. I was dressed in jeans & a black t-shirt, as I was window shopping I heard a voice behind me, I had my hands in my pockets as I turned around to see a cop looking over the top of his car with a gun pointed at me. I slowly pulled my hands out of my pockets & showed him empty hands while I spoke in the strongest Kiwi accent I could, that defused the situation quite effectively, welcome to the USA...
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And did you ever find out why? Did you fit the description of someone who just committed a crime?
 
Rakaia said:
Within 8 hours of arriving in LA I had a cop pull a gun on me, I went to a restaurant next to my motel and had a meal & a bottomless cup of coffee. Surprise, surprise I couldn't sleep, so I got up and went for a walk at 3.00AM. I was dressed in jeans & a black t-shirt, as I was window shopping I heard a voice behind me, I had my hands in my pockets as I turned around to see a cop looking over the top of his car with a gun pointed at me. I slowly pulled my hands out of my pockets & showed him empty hands while I spoke in the strongest Kiwi accent I could, that defused the situation quite effectively, welcome to the USA...
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Most people walking around "window shopping" at 3:00 am in Los Angeles are up to no good. That happens to be the rhythm of this city. NY would be an entirely different story.

You seem to have a fascination with problems in the US. As you've said, every country has its problems. AU included. Why no posts about some of those?
 
Rakaia said:
If you read the first post you will see the link which relates to a shooting in Queensland, Australia.
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Yes, the article focused on a loose connection between an American who made general, but quite serious, anti-law enforcement threats, for which he was recently arrested, and a shooting two years ago in Australia.

Your next post was about a 3 AM interaction with LAPD. Question: When they realized you weren't a threat, but a visitor to this country, did the police then suggest to you that walking city streets alone at that hour wasn't the wisest move you could make, or express other concern for your safety? Having known and interacted with many LAPD officers during my 50+ years in Los Angeles, I suspect they did, but that part of the story was left out.
 
StarSong said:
Yes, the article focused on a loose connection between an American who made general, but quite serious, anti-law enforcement threats, for which he was recently arrested, and a shooting two years ago in Australia.

Your next post was about a 3 AM interaction with LAPD. Question: When they realized you weren't a threat, but a visitor to this country, did the police then suggest to you that walking city streets alone at that hour wasn't the wisest move you could make, or express other concern for your safety? Having known and interacted with many LAPD officers during my 50+ years in Los Angeles, I suspect they did, but that part of the story was left out.
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Even I wouldn’t walk the streets of almost any city at 3 a.m. and I carry most of the time, but have no intent of using it. Maybe 50 years ago, but not today.

StarSong lives in LA and if anyone knows LA and if it’s safe at 3 a.m., I would think she would.
 
ohioboy said:
The cop pulled a gun on him. Quite different from just a "what's ya doin".
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"Window shopping" in LA at 3 AM while wearing dark clothing and with hands in one's pockets, is extraordinary enough to reasonably suggest possible illegal behavior or intent. With few exceptions, Los Angeles is a "day city," largely because of beautiful daytime weather and a time zone 3 hours later than NY. Working hours start early - often in the 7-7:30 AM range and almost never later than 8:15 or so.

Given the US's highly-armed population, the police officer's initial cautious response wasn't beyond the pale.
 
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ohioboy said:
The cop pulled a gun on him. Quite different from just a "what's ya doin".
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I'd agree if it would have been 3 P.M. but middle of the night, dark clothing, peeking in store windows with hands in pockets? If you were LE, you'd seriously go up with a "what's ya doin'" hoping it's just his hands in his pockets? And positioning over the car roof to make sure the guy doesn't have a weapon is different from grabbing the dude with a gun in his face.
 
I did not say criminal activity was not "afoot" as they say. Without any particulars we are not aware of, hand on weapon, or maybe drawn, ok, pointing at, no, imo.
 
ohioboy said:
I did not say criminal activity was not "afoot" as they say. Without any particulars we are not aware of, hand on weapon, or maybe drawn, ok, pointing at, no, imo.
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But we do know the number of homicides in LA was 382 last year. And we do know that Police officers have a significantly higher average probability of death than males in the general population. Few jobs include the possibility of death in every interaction. Especially given that they're dealing with people in highly emotionally instances.

The reality of the US is that guns are everywhere. That being the case, I'd say that I'd rather then cop draw his gun, and find he doesn't need it, than having that cop not go home to his family. LA is a city with a lot of crime, that needs to be considered.
 
I truly understand what you and the others are saying. We were not there, so facts to warrant a gun pointed at the person may have been present? What I am saying is, a man looking in a window, even at 3 am, is not "in and of itself" a seizable reason. Pointing a weapon at someone is a Seizure under the 4th AM. It must be looked at from both sides. An officer could draw his gun on anyone walking down the street saying they looked suspicious?
 
ohioboy said:
An officer could draw his gun on anyone walking down the street saying they looked suspicious?
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Yes. Yes, they could. If you assume that a person walking down the street is innocent and it's all a mistake, it sounds heinous. If, on the other hand, the person is a Boston Marathon bomber, it's justified. *I* can't know at the time. The cop may be over-reacting. But in that moment, at that exact juncture, I'm going to support the cop.
 
Your support in not unfounded by any rational means. I understand your side, just my opinion of an unknown factual encounter.
 
ohioboy said:
I support him "only" for the reason the "specific and articulable" facts are unknown to me.
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Hey, if we learn more, and we find out that the guy being held up with the ex-husband of his lover or something, then yes - opinions change. We can only go on the evidence presented. By default? I want cops to get home to their families for the evening.
 
I have two former Cops in the family. One dead (automobile accident), and one retired. The retired cop shot one person, in the leg, and the other, never shot anyone. The miscreant shot in the leg was holding a knife to a woman‘s throat. Shooting him worked and saved the woman.

Cops have a frustrating depressing highly unpleasant job. How many jobs require dealing with the scum of humanity on a daily basis? Combine this with the low opinion many in the public have of them, and the readiness of many in that public to believe the worst about them, and it is no surprise that many cities find themselves woefully short of police officers.
 
A few weeks ago there was a very sad incident in the small town in California where we lived for 30 years. Our son and one of our daughters still live there. I believe this was a "suicide by cop" incident-although I have not yet heard it being called that.

I happened to be on my phone while I was waiting for hubby to do a vehicle inspection so happened to catch it on the local FB scanner page as it was occuring. What I first read was that a subject had a knife to another`s neck and then that he had fallen in a pool. Those first reports were pretty confused-even stating the incorrect town. But the rest of it was correct.

As it turned out,a man had held a knife to his son`s throat,and then had pulled out a gun. Cops were called,and a SWAT officer went in for the guy. When he saw that the man was pointing a gun at him,he shot and killed him.

Now the horribly sad part. Actually,many sad parts. First off,the officer knew the man very well. This man owned a local insurance agency,was a coach for pretty much every youth sport (all of my grandsons had him as a coach for one sport or another)and was extremely well liked by most everyone. His daughter is one of my granddaughter`s closest friends and my daughter knew him and his wife very well,as well has his four kids.

We still don`t know all of the details yet,but he had lost his insurance agency a few weeks prior,had moved back to his hometown an hour away and either he or his wife had filed for divorce(we have heard it both ways) We also heard that he left a letter stating that he intended on killing his entire family. And sadly,the kids were all at home at the time this happened. None were injured though,thankfully. Except,of course,emotionally.

The insurance business has become an extremely difficult business in California-and particularly in that county-due to all of the wildfires and the companies pulling out of the state. Now they don`t even want to insure vehicles there. I believe that was probably the cause of his losing his agency and it probably caused him to have some kind of mental break. Who knows,but I really think it was something like this.

Last week services were held for him and the whole town turned out-with nothing but good to say about him. And his wife and kids are making FB posts talking about how much they love and miss him.

On Friday the local online "newspaper" posted a video showing the entire incident. I started to watch it but couldn`t watch it all-it turned my stomach. I just didn`t see how it was necessary to post that with his wife and children still living there.
 
Mrs. Robinson said:
A few weeks ago there was a very sad incident in the small town in California where we lived for 30 years. Our son and one of our daughters still live there. I believe this was a "suicide by cop" incident-although I have not yet heard it being called that.
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I read your post... and I'm thinking it sounds more like the guy totally snapping from pressure and doing something that got him shot in self defense or in defense of the child whose throat he had a knife to. "Suicide by cop" seems to indicate the person *planned* to be killed.
 

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