Price Controls on every day goods. are they a good option for ordinary people.

[VaughanJB]

I disagree. I believe it's largely because they were taxed and license fee'd out of business.

When me and my cousin bought a small-town liquor/convenience store, neither of us knew an agent from the Franchise Tax Board would walk in 3 days after we opened demanding $10,000. And that was just a down-payment.

Separately taxed items included per sq ft of floor space, per sq ft of shelving, every item of merchandise, number of doors and windows, warehouse space, and the roof (because it had steel joists, if I remember right).

Like I said, that was just a start.

We probably shouldn't go there and leave it as a disagreement. Knowing the consequences of owning a business and all that entails is part and parcel of the decision process, no? Let's not go there.

We disagree. Wages alone renders tax insignificant. If there were no tax at all on products, manufacturing would remain in Asia. Labor is the largest cost of business, and there's no way to fix that. Not to mention, tax - as egregious as it can feel - provides benefits through services etc. What is needed, in my opinion, is enough control and regulation to ensure a level of sanity, and no more. But you need some controls, otherwise we'd all be sleeping on factory floors or in cottages provided by our employers. Business sometimes needs to be forced to do the right thing, because its concerns are not you and I, the environment, and the impact of their profiteering. There's a balance.

do I have a say in who is in Government? Absolutely not. Most of the employees are hired or appointed and they all are owned. Because, its is always simply because!

That's not how it works though, right? In general elections You vote for a manifesto. You vote based on what is promised. You vote on the leader you trust to put the right people in place. In local elections, you get to vote for individuals. If you got to vote on every individual in government, we'd never stop visiting the polls.

 

[TennVet]

I disagree. I believe it's largely because they were taxed and license fee'd out of business.

When me and my cousin bought a small-town liquor/convenience store, neither of us knew an agent from the Franchise Tax Board would walk in 3 days after we opened demanding $10,000. And that was just a down-payment.

Separately taxed items included per sq ft of floor space, per sq ft of shelving, every item of merchandise, number of doors and windows, warehouse space, and the roof (because it had steel joists, if I remember right).

Like I said, that was just a start.

Did you turn the extortionist in to the authorities? Seems like in a small town that would be a safe route, more so than perhaps in a large city where something like that might be a little more risky. Just thinking out loud.

 

[papa tiger]

do I have a say in who is in Government. absolutely7 not. Most of the employees are hired or a

I disagree. I believe it's largely because they were taxed and license fee'd out of business.

When me and my cousin bought a small-town liquor/convenience store, neither of us knew an agent from the Franchise Tax Board would walk in 3 days after we opened demanding $10,000. And that was just a down-payment.

Separately taxed items included per sq ft of floor space, per sq ft of shelving, every item of merchandise, number of doors and windows, warehouse space, and the roof (because it had steel joists, if I remember right).

Like I said, that was just a start.

wow how could you owe tax on stuff you hadn’t sold. were there hidden business taxes unpaid of the former owner? Almost sounds like a protection racket to us.

 

[Harry Le Hermit]

I think it was back in the 70s when the US feds tried temporary price control (of goods), and it went very badly. People over-filled their pantries, store shelves emptied too quick, and common goods were in great demand. When markets were able to fully restock, prices rose due to demand.

Politicians were the only people who benefited, enticing voters. Trucking companies might have done pretty well for a while, too, I don't know.

It think it was a 90 day freeze and was accepted as being good. However, at the time, the gold convertibility tossed, the wheat for peace deal was put in place, etc. There were a lot of factors thrown in the mix, which resulted with inflationary pressures.

I don't really remember any hoarding at that time, although gasoline probably was in late '73. I lived in an area where pump prices rose, but there were never any lines. At least not near the Ashland refinery and Ashland franchised service stations. As for other staples, not so much, as I lived in a rural type community. That was all before the mega conglomerates of today, and shipping goods long distances. That's my 2¢.

 

[Timewise 60+]

Where is there a free market without controls and regulation?

Old trick this is...no one suggests that our free market is without controls or set pricing in some instances. Too much of anything is bad!
Free markets in general are the best possible economic strategy, but they are never applied 100%! The USA is the best example...

 

[VaughanJB]

Old trick this is...no one suggests that our free market is without controls or set pricing in some instances. Too much of anything is bad!
Free markets in general are the best possible economic strategy, but they are never applied 100%! The USA is the best example...

Not a trick, an observation. There are many complaints about government interference, but few pointing out that NO controls leads to chaos and nothing good. We need to be realistic. Business owes us nothing. Quite the opposite, we are there to be exploited. So we simply require some kind of regulation. I see far too little discussion on what control ARE required. Instead, government is bad the whole time...........

 

[Timewise 60+]

Not a trick, an observation. There are many complaints about government interference, but few pointing out that NO controls leads to chaos and nothing good. We need to be realistic. Business owes us nothing. Quite the opposite, we are there to be exploited. So we simply require some kind of regulation. I see far too little discussion on what control ARE required. Instead, government is bad the whole time...........

Economics 101, if I remember correctly tells us that when a government takes control of pricing the economy will fail. No mathematical percent of control has ever been established, that I know of, as to when these market failures begin to happen, but most agree at some point the economy will fail. Same for no controls...some are necessary how much is too much is not defined, but no controls can cause a failure also.

If you need more, do your own research...

 

[dilettante]

The natural control on business is competition. Bad products, bad prices, bad service, etc. and a competitor can undercut you and take business away by offering better deals.

The real problem lies in takeovers, mergers, acquisitions, and collusion... i.e. monopolies and duopolies and cartels. Eliminate competition and the abuse of consumers runs unchecked.

In a sane world people would be smarter than this. The problem is that too many of the "not smart" get a voice and they far outnumber the smart. Thus a Costco comes in, idiots cross the picket lines and shop there, 30 small businesses disappear, then the whining for "Big Mammy Gubmint" intervention starts. And usually fails.

 

[Murrmurr]

It think it was a 90 day freeze and was accepted as being good. However, at the time, the gold convertibility tossed, the wheat for peace deal was put in place, etc. There were a lot of factors thrown in the mix, which resulted with inflationary pressures.

That's right; I forgot about that. But I'd recently married and we'd started a family, and I was just beginning to learn the significance of a budget, so I was pretty distracted. Also, we'd started pulling out of Vietnam, and Watergate and Kent State happened, and people were boycotting grapes, and on top of that; Disco.

Man. What a decade that was!

 

[VaughanJB]

Economics 101, if I remember correctly tells us that when a government takes control of pricing the economy will fail. No mathematical percent of control has ever been established, that I know of, as to when these market failures begin to happen, but most agree at some point the economy will fail. Same for no controls...some are necessary how much is too much is not defined, but no controls can cause a failure also.

If you need more, do your own research...

I don't need more, the debate is simply how much is too much. Again - I see a lot of people bemoan government intervention, but few who praise it. Yet there must be some level.

 

[VaughanJB]

The natural control on business is competition. Bad products, bad prices, bad service, etc. and a competitor can undercut you and take business away by offering better deals.

The real problem lies in takeovers, mergers, acquisitions, and collusion... i.e. monopolies and duopolies and cartels. Eliminate competition and the abuse of consumers runs unchecked.

In a sane world people would be smarter than this. The problem is that too many of the "not smart" get a voice and they far outnumber the smart. Thus a Costco comes in, idiots cross the picket lines and shop there, 30 small businesses disappear, then the whining for "Big Mammy Gubmint" intervention starts. And usually fails.

But that misses a few things. So, I worked for a business out of Salt Lake City. I was part of their European operations. The business was started, and run, on a very definitive five year plan. That is, those making the decisions had one goal in mind - build the business to sell it within a five year window. So, it wasn't being run by people who were too concerned with beyond that time frame, acquisition was the goal. They didn't want to be there in say, ten years. And they weren't.

Takeover, mergers etc - are part of capitalism.

On the latter - people are mostly self-serving. They really don't care about others, and the impact our actions might have upon them. Sad, but true, imo.

 

[Murrmurr]

do I have a say in who is in Government. absolutely7 not. Most of the employees are hired or a

wow how could you owe tax on stuff you hadn’t sold. were there hidden business taxes unpaid of the former owner? Almost sounds like a protection racket to us.

We had to separate merchandise we bought when we purchased the store from merchandise we brought in afterward, because they were taxed differently. While we were going through the licensing and permits process, no one warned us about this part of opening a small business. And we didn't have a book-keeper. We didn't even know we needed one. That agent was in our store every day for 3 or 4 days, making sure nothing taxable was missed. My partner said he had to pull over to vomit on his way to work every day. It was crazy.

 

[Murrmurr]

Did you turn the extortionist in to the authorities? Seems like in a small town that would be a safe route, more so than perhaps in a large city where something like that might be a little more risky. Just thinking out loud.

Apparently, this guy was within his rights as an agent of the Franchise Tax Board. We actually owed this money but we had no idea.

It took us 3 years to get squared away with state and federal agencies (and the bank) and be in a position to finally start making a profit. That's when I sold my half to my cousin and bailed. I've never considered opening my own business since. The thought of it made me ill.

 

[Harry Le Hermit]

I don't need more, the debate is simply how much is too much. Again - I see a lot of people bemoan government intervention, but few who praise it. Yet there must be some level.

My issue is "what" government intervention? The level of lobbying and corporate involvement in writing rules and regulations, may be the issue, imho. The people demand action, Congress hears the complaints... and then turns to the devil, to provide the wording of legislation. The bureaucracy then listens to the devil for implementation guidance. Rinse and repeat!

 

[Murrmurr]

I don't need more, the debate is simply how much is too much.

When regulations go beyond the public's health and safety, it's too much. When it comes to goods and services, our gov't is obligated to protect our health and safety. They aren't supposed to manipulate pricing. That's the public's job.

 

[StarSong]

Anti trust law enforcement would help. Monopolies and near monopolies collude overtly or covertly to keep prices high. Their goals are to keep profits, stock prices and C-Suite compensation ratcheting ever skyward. And with SCOTUS's ruling providing "personhood" status, corporations put their political money in places that best assure those goals.

 

[papa tiger]

the Democrats pushed the free Market and world trade with Asia. guess what killed
American Jobs, retirement package. Everyone thought Hong Kong stuff was crap.
American business 1st took its abilities over there and they worked hard to make it
better too. U just need their tax stamp.

———
Who gets great benefits. Right. Government employees & Politicians. so the voter always votes himself out of his own money and allows Government Appointed jobs to flourish. Right get a Gobbermint job.
—————

Everybody work for the FBI, Home Defense Depts. Help others, 2 problems fixed.

Yes push for a 3.5% SSN raise. but you have to have 12% to survive.
—————
You need to loose a lot of weight though to get back in those 30 x 36 Blue Jeans.
————-

 

[Brookswood]

On Buyer’s Strike! Keep it on the shelf!

 

[papa tiger]

On Buyer’s Strike! Keep it on the shelf!

Thinking grow more garden Veggies and Fruits. Buy less Canned stuff. It’s proven that stuff is bad for you. Forget Slur-pies and Big Gulps too. Go to local Markets. xxx’s out big corporate stuff. Prices drop very rapidly then.
———-
Everyone, sip a melting bottle of Ice, forget the rest. Constant hunger is good for you.
Don’t invite the neighbors over for a BBQ steak Patio Greek out.
—————
Parties on at 8 pm. byob …. …

 

[VaughanJB]

My issue is "what" government intervention? The level of lobbying and corporate involvement in writing rules and regulations, may be the issue, imho. The people demand action, Congress hears the complaints... and then turns to the devil, to provide the wording of legislation. The bureaucracy then listens to the devil for implementation guidance. Rinse and repeat!

Ah, the corruption of the process. Lobbying on the level corporations and special interest uses is obscene, and does indeed excuse a multitude of sin. It's a fault-line in the democratic process. The one and only reason it's never been fixed is because of the obvious - too many people are getting too much money and influence.

When regulations go beyond the public's health and safety, it's too much. When it comes to goods and services, our gov't is obligated to protect our health and safety. They aren't supposed to manipulate pricing. That's the public's job.

Yeah, this is the heart of our disagreement, I think. Pricing can both be a health and safety issue - just look at drug prices. There are also things we, as individuals, simply cannot manage. I think your preference would lead us back to the wild west.

 

[Murrmurr]

Yeah, this is the heart of our disagreement, I think. Pricing can both be a health and safety issue - just look at drug prices. There are also things we, as individuals, simply cannot manage. I think your preference would lead us back to the wild west.

Changes in legislation is what has allowed healthcare, including medical treatments, to transform from a service dedicated to people's well-being, to an industry dedicated to share-holder's profits.

 

[oldman]

I have read that price controls can cause shortages and rationing as manufactures limit the amount of goods they produce. The lower the prices drop, the more likely manufacturers will decrease their production.

I like the idea of allowing the free market to decide the prices. I understand prices on food are high, but we have to consider that wages did rise and so the cost of goods also rose.

 

[Remy]

I guess it can depend on what it is. If that $1.50 can of beans gets raised to $5.00, people just won't buy that can of beans. They will buy something else. I buy most of my clothes second hand. Forget Goodwill for clothes. I get better things at better prices at other thrift stores in town including PAWS.

There was that senior mobile home in the news in Northern California. The new owners were raising prices so high, seniors were saying they couldn't afford the space rent anymore. Is that free market or greed? Same with rents.

 

[Irishdude]

Some things they do have long term benefit, some things long term failures. It's not one thing. I know I've worked for people who don't give a damn about workers, and are only interested in offering the least, for the most income. Money, and profit, above all else. I wouldn't trust them to be a caring parent to the economy.

I mean, look at manufacturing and how it's been decimated in the US and UK. This is largely because of cost cutting. It's good for business, bad for anyone who might work in manufacturing. It's a balance. Now, I have no say in who runs a business, but I do have a say on who is in government.

We should probably avoid Covid, because it's a right wormhole. My take away from that is that if another black plague happened, and a fatal disease spread across the globe, we - as humanity - would die out proclaiming a God given right to personal freedom as we choked our last.

Saying manufacturing has been decimated because of cost cutting is looking through the wrong end of the telescope. Manufacturing of basic products, and some advanced products, has moved from Western economies to lower-cost economies such as China, India and Vietnam. That has put a lot of unskilled workers out of work. In the US, many have migrated to service jobs or "gig" jobs after losing manufacturing jobs.

Through tariffs and regulations, we can mandate that, say, shoes be manufactured domestically. But those shoes would be astronomically expensive compared to those manufactured overseas. Like most economic issues, it's complicated.

 

[oldman]

I think shipping costs have also aided in raising prices.