Questions about near death experiences

MarkD said:
For that matter, how well do we even understand how our eyes, ears and other sensory give us the world we experience in consciousness. Identifying key organs and faculties is all well and good but thinking that explains everything is hasty.
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Several ideas have been floating about for millennia that tell us that our consciousness is an inhibited portion of a general, or cosmic consciousness that manifests the physical. What we observe as physical beings is a re-presentation of the underlying reality, interpreted through the senses and the brain. It is when this inhibition is released that we become able to observe without the senses, which can happen by psycho-active substances or near-death experiences. There are also psychoactive substances that enhance the senses.

Science doesn't generally grasp this because it is an oppositional hypothesis. Instead of the brain and our senses being how we recognise reality for what it is, our physical body inhibits our investigation, restricting the means to truly assess reality. Because we cannot measure things in alternate states and they are subjective in nature, poetry and metaphor have often been employed, and the so-called 'mystical' traditions can be found all over the world. In a way, it is like fish discovering water.
 

Doesn't qualify as a near death experiences but I once had a dream. I was in my early 30s. In the dream I was dead and I could travel back in time, and visit any moment in my past, just "being" there, observing. I could see and hear myself at any moment in my life. When I awoke I was no longer afraid of dying. I thought of it as a wonderful thing and the fact that I still remember the dream after 50 years indicates that it was an important experience. As I said, it wasn't a near death experience but it does coincide with what many claim is your "life flashing before your eyes". 🥸

my life.jpg
 
Even if it is truthful, it doesn't prove a life after death worth wanting. Or for how long?
I think it is mainly wishful thinking with or without a God
One mathematical theory is that no afterlife exists now, but eventually humans will be resurrected

See Jose Farmers novel To Your Scattered Bodies Go
 
Victor said:
Even if it is truthful, it doesn't prove a life after death
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I agree. For me it suggests that what we think of as our life may be different than it seems. If so, then perhaps death is only the interruption of an illusion? But who knows? I'm not invested in thinking there is life after death at all but I prefer not to make up my mind prematurely.
 
MarkD said:
I just listened to that video again and I followed it with this one with questions and answers from participants from both of them. I think there may be somethings in that of interest too.

The first time I listened some time ago I thought Rupert sounded a little out there for me but then before talking with Feywon about it I pretty much felt the same way about NDE's. Now I'm more open to learning more and interested but I have to say McGilchrist has been the one who has brought me around to recognizing a regard for the sacred where before I was pretty resigned to materialist mind set. Reading his books has also made apparent the need to unlearn some of the things I'd dismissed out of hand for the flimsiest of reasons. I think I still have more un-learning to do. Sheldrake does have some interesting things to say though mostly in directions which challenge my comfort zone.

Not sure when or if he might be interested in or have time for these conversations since he is packing for a holiday, but my good friend @Stoppelmann is much more read in these areas than I am. In fact I am just writing him a last email before he departs and will mention this thread to him.

PS, @ChiroDoc is your username a hint to your occupation (perhaps prior to retirement)? Nice to cyber meet you too, BTW.
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Glad you're enjoying Sheldrake. Yes, I've been a Chiropractor for over 40 years. My first profession was as a musician. Good talking with you too, my man!
 
ChiroDoc said:
Glad you're enjoying Sheldrake. Yes, I've been a Chiropractor for over 40 years. My first profession was as a musician. Good talking with you too, my man!
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I’ve had good experiences with both chiropractic and acupuncture. When I was like 25 I had a stiff neck that wouldn’t allow me to sleep. I started with acupuncture because I could get an appointment sooner but it did no good at all.

The next day I saw the chiro and was instantly healed with one adjustment. I’ve since gotten help from both but with the acupuncture a couple years ago the first person meant well but was ineffective, the second one was an administrator too and was more interested in disallowing my request than in helping and was also ineffective. The third was just amazing. Did more for me even than the chiropractor I was also seeing though he did also help me. This was through Kaiser so I was pretty lucky I think.
 
MarkD said:
I’ve had good experiences with both chiropractic and acupuncture. When I was like 25 I had a stiff neck that wouldn’t allow me to sleep. I started with acupuncture because I could get an appointment sooner but it did no good at all. The next day I saw the chiro and was instantly healed with one adjustment.

I’ve since gotten help from both but with the acupuncture about a couple years ago the first person meant well but was ineffective, the second one was an administrator too and was more interested in disallowing my request than in helping and was also ineffective. The third was just amazing. Did more for me even than the chiropractor I was also seeing though he did also help me. This was through Kaiser so I was pretty lucky I think.
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One chief difference is that chiropractic does not treat pain. We treat the malfunction that is causing the pain. Granted, pain brings most people to seek chiropractic, and their pain usually goes away. But it's because the practitioner re-established the joint integrity which has caused the symptoms.

Medical physicians treat musculo-skeletal pain by giving a drug (s) to relieve the symptoms, oftentimes without regard to the pain's cause. Some acupuncture does the same thing, although they have a highly sophisticated method of treating disease as well.
 
ChiroDoc said:
... I heard a prominent scientist say that he suspects that we go into a dream world state, from which we of course can never awaken.
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Which part did he/she actually say .... the "dream world state" or the "from which we of course can never awaken"?
 
ChiroDoc said:
... I heard a prominent scientist say that he suspects that we go into a dream world state, from which we of course can never awaken.
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Inept said:
Which part did he/she actually say .... the "dream world state" or the "from which we of course can never awaken"?
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ChiroDoc said:
Both.
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Alright, then I must ask you what gives that "prominent scientist" the conviction that "we of course never awaken"? Is he part of a celestial circle of angles, or the Messiah, or God himself? He may be prominent but not really very intelligent. Maybe not so good in grammar either. Mixing 'suspicion' and 'of course' might be like mixing maybe with obviously. Do you see what I mean?
 
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Inept said:
Alright, then I must ask you what gives that "prominent scientist" the conviction that "we of course never awaken"? Is he part of a celestial circle of angles, or the Messiah, or God himself? He may be prominent but not really very intelligent. Maybe not so good in grammar either. Mixing 'suspicion' and 'of course' might be like mixing maybe with obviously. Do you see what I mean?
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I agree. The words used attempt to take the whole issue out of the speculative (even intelligent guessing) and place it into an area of supposed knowledge, which it can never be. We have theories and experience, but what it is is outside of the measurable and repeatable and, therefore, remains in the area of hypothesis.
 
Stoppelmann said:
I agree. The words used attempt to take the whole issue out of the speculative (even intelligent guessing) and place it into an area of supposed knowledge, which it can never be. We have theories and experience, but what it is is outside of the measurable and repeatable and, therefore, remains in the area of hypothesis.
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Perfectly stated.
 
I don't give death or dying a lot of thought. When it's my turn, it's out of my hands anyway. I am sure there is something waiting for me on the other side, but we can't be certain.

Through my course of being a state trooper for 37 years, I have seen a lot of death. I have held the hand of a dying person while they quietly passed away. You can almost feel their life slipping away from that person.

I was called to a scene were a gang had shot another 15 y/o on the street in Chester, PA. The ambulance was a few minutes away and my victim had almost bled out. You can tell by the size of the puddle. He took 2 shots. One to chest and one to the neck. I knew I was too late to help, so all I could do was hold his hand. He looked me straight in the eye and told me to tell his Mom he loves her and he's sorry.

They killed him because he owed the dealer $75. Senseless killing.
 

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