Race to find Titanic tourist submarine with British billionaire and four others aboard that has vanished

OneEyedDiva said:
HD after seeing the diagram you posted of the vessel, then reading others' comments about its history and a "death waiver" makes going on this
expedition seem even crazier to me. They didn't even have seats?!! No door on the bathroom?!! Gaming controller?!! Locked in from the outside?!! Oh HE🏑🏑 NO ‼️
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Exactly.
This submarine uses an Xbox gaming controller
-Is equipped with only one functioning button
-Has no radar or navigating equipment
-Is considered an experimental vessel, meaning it’s had no approval by any regulatory body
-It failed to meet a set of industrial standards for vessel safety
-Chance of being saved if anything goes wrong are as likely as finding a needle in a haystack

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianb...ubmersible-that-went-missing/?sh=314ff48c12d9
There’s no chance of me boarding even if it were free.
 

Beezer said:
My Aunt's grandson went skydiving for an 18th birthday party of a friend about 2 years ago.

The instructor who was tied to him landed on him when they hit the ground. He's paralyzed from the waist down for life. The poor kid didn't even want to participate, but his friends convinced him to do it with the rest of them.
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That is so tragic and it ties in with the poor 19 year-old on the sub. People should have to be 21 before they're allowed to do these dangerous thrill rides. Let them reach full maturity before they make such decisions. I can't help but think the boy on the sub was just trying to impress his dad.
 

A German adventurer who paid to see the wreck of the Titanic on the missing Titan submarine two years ago has called the voyage a 'suicide mission'.

Arthur Loibl, 60, dived down 12,500 feet to the Atlantic wreck site in August 2021 and says he was 'incredibly lucky' to survive.

His story echos much that has been learned about the OceanGate tourist vessel since it vanished on Sunday, with past reports highlighting how many components were purchased off-the-shelf. It has also been revealed to have been uncertified to dive to the necessary depths to reach the Titanic.

Speaking to German tabloid Bild, Loibl recalls the first submarine they tried didn't work and a second attempted dive had to be abandoned. He said parts fell off and the mission went into the water five hours late due to electrical problems.

This, Loibl suspects, could be the cause of the Titan's disappearance.

It was a suicide mission back then!' Loibl tells Bild.

The German knows a thing or two about risk taking, too. He has previously travelled to the north and south pole, and flown over Russia in a MiG-29 fighter jet.

But out of all his adventures, 'the Titanic was the most extreme,' he says.

He paid 100,000 euros and booked the trip through an English company that organises special safaris, Bild reports.

He says the start of the expedition was bumpy.

The dive at 1,600 meters had to be abandoned. My mission was the 5th, but we also went into the water five hours late due to electrical problems,' he recounts to the publication.

Shortly before the sub was launched, Loibl says the bracket of the stabilisation tube - used to provide balance as the craft descends into the depths - fell off the vessel.

'That was reattached with zip ties. That didn't worry me,' he tells Bild.

As for conditions inside the vessel, the adventurer says they were challenging.

72365521-12218125-Speaking_to_German_tabloid_Bild_Loibl_pictured_recalls_that_the_-a-2_1687351742554.jpg

Speaking to German tabloid Bild, Loibl (pictured) recalls that the first submarine they tried didn't work, that a second attempted dive had to be abandoned, parts fell off, and that his mission went into the water five hours late due to electrical problems

On his voyage, he was joined by French explorer Paul-Henry Nargeolet, 73, and OceanGate's CEO and pilot Stockton Rush, 61.

Both are currently on the Titan and have been missing since Sunday, along with British adventurer Hamish Harding and Pakistani nationals Shahzada Dawood and his son Suleman.

Up to five passengers can be taken on the 22-foot long Titan. There are no seats, a single toilet (with a black curtain pulled across for 'privacy'). At a depth of around 3,200 feet, sunlight can no longer penetrate the darkness of the ocean.

'You need strong nerves, you mustn't be claustrophobic and you have to be able to sit cross-legged for ten hours,' Loibl says. 'It must be hell down there. There's only 2.50 meters of space, it's four degrees, there's no chair, no toilet.'

When he did reach the Titanic, however, he described a sense of euphoria.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...wreck-2021-says-incredibly-lucky-make-it.html
 
It really is a desperate situation because even if they locate the exact position of the craft as a result of the banging noise, how do they hook something onto it to pull it up? I'm not clear that they have that capability at the scene depending on how deep the sub is if/when located.

Also, if those on board are lost I'm not sure the waivers they signed will be worth a pinch if investigators find Ocean Gate liable due to careless or reckless issues surrounding the craft and that seems like it might be a slam-dunk based on what that German fellow was saying in his interview.
 
MrPants said:
It really is a desperate situation because even if they locate the exact position of the craft as a result of the banging noise, how do they hook something onto it to pull it up? I'm not clear that they have that capability at the scene depending on how deep the sub is if/when located.
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And how sure are they those sounds really are from the missing submarine? The oceans are full of noises... I agree its looking grim, hope we are wrong about that.
CallMeKate said:
I just read something chilling. 🙁 Mr. Harding was a big explorer and had gotten a ride on Bezos' spaceship. He also almost died from altitude sickness after exploring Antartica with Buzz Aldrin. But those aren't the chilling things. The article (Washington Post) states:

"The Briton also holds three adventure-related Guinness World Records, including “longest time spent traversing the deepest part of the ocean on a single dive” for a 2021 excursion to the Mariana Trench that lasted 4 hours 15 minutes."

🥺
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Well he certainly knew what he was getting into. Or should have some folks feel invincible. Not that I wouldn't have jumped at the chance to do the things he did. Maybe fortunately I am a bit more economically constrained... maybe more than a bit, LOL.
 
MrPants said:
It really is a desperate situation because even if they locate the exact position of the craft as a result of the banging noise, how do they hook something onto it to pull it up? I'm not clear that they have that capability at the scene depending on how deep the sub is if/when located.

Also, if those on board are lost I'm not sure the waivers they signed will be worth a pinch if investigators find Ocean Gate liable due to careless or reckless issues surrounding the craft and that seems like it might be a slam-dunk based on what that German fellow was saying in his interview.
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Apparently there's only one Boat capable of hauling the sub out of the water, and it's French, and currently it's still here in our waters, preparing to travel on the long journey
 
I hope all aboard the the sub are found & rescued. I also hope the rescuers are also kept from harm.

IMO, the Titanic is a grave-site & should be honored as such. To me is seems in bad taste to make money off of the misfortune of others. I'm glad it was finally located & questions about what happened could be answered. But in the end, it needs to be treated with respect.

The families of the sailors of the Edmund Fitzgerald, after photos were taken of the wreckage & a body then published in a book, wanted the ship to be preserved as a grave site. They didn't want anyone else to be able to profit off of their loss from this tragedy. The Canadian government amended their Heritage Act in 2006 that by permit only, allows for legitimate archeological, scientific or law enforcement purposes. The closest you can get without a permit is a 500-meter perimeter of the wreckage.

In 1986, the U.S. passed the Titanic Memorial Act that was meant to regulate exploration & salvage activities. It authorized negotiations for international guidelines with the U.K., Canada, France & anyone else who would agree. From what I found, it didn't go into effect until April 12, 2001 (see https://www.gc.noaa.gov/documents/recoveryguidelines.pdf ). This PDF included the number of letters received from those who were opposed to some or all proposed regulations.

I'm not into government regulations, but when it comes to lives lost & their final resting place which should be a memorial to the dead, it seem to be the right thing to do. I don't believe making money on tragedies, no matter how long ago they happen.

Didn't mean to take this thread in a different direction @hollydolly.

References:
https://detroithistorical.org/learn/encyclopedia-of-detroit/ss-edmund-fitzgerald
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/titanic-edmund-fitzgerald-1.6882861
https://www.noaa.gov/gc-international-section/rms-titanic-international-agreement
 
Lilac said:
I hope all aboard the the sub are found & rescued. I also hope the rescuers are also kept from harm.

IMO, the Titanic is a grave-site & should be honored as such. To me is seems in bad taste to make money off of the misfortune of others. I'm glad it was finally located & questions about what happened could be answered. But in the end, it needs to be treated with respect.

The families of the sailors of the Edmund Fitzgerald, after photos were taken of the wreckage & a body then published in a book, wanted the ship to be preserved as a grave site. They didn't want anyone else to be able to profit off of their loss from this tragedy. The Canadian government amended their Heritage Act in 2006 that by permit only, allows for legitimate archeological, scientific or law enforcement purposes. The closest you can get without a permit is a 500-meter perimeter of the wreckage.

In 1986, the U.S. passed the Titanic Memorial Act that was meant to regulate exploration & salvage activities. It authorized negotiations for international guidelines with the U.K., Canada, France & anyone else who would agree. From what I found, it didn't go into effect until April 12, 2001 (see https://www.gc.noaa.gov/documents/recoveryguidelines.pdf ). This PDF included the number of letters received from those who were opposed to some or all proposed regulations.

I'm not into government regulations, but when it comes to lives lost & their final resting place which should be a memorial to the dead, it seem to be the right thing to do. I don't believe making money on tragedies, no matter how long ago they happen.

Didn't mean to take this thread in a different direction @hollydolly.

References:
https://detroithistorical.org/learn/encyclopedia-of-detroit/ss-edmund-fitzgerald
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/titanic-edmund-fitzgerald-1.6882861
https://www.noaa.gov/gc-international-section/rms-titanic-international-agreement
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I agree wholeheartedly with you Lilac... I feel that since this potential catastrophe has occurred, the Titanic should be declared out of Bounds... to anyone but legitimate scientists
 
hollydolly said:
Apparently there's only one Boat capable of hauling the sub out of the water, and it's French, and currently it's still here in our waters, preparing to travel on the long journey
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Ah... well then that would be for when it goes from search & rescue to recovery mission. So if there's only one thing that can pull it up, and it's not even on scene, what are they expecting to do if it *is* located today when they still may have oxygen, I wonder?!
 
A French ship carrying the only underwater vehicle capable of rescuing the Titan five was today racing towards Newfoundland - but will not get there until midnight UK time.

Hopes of finding the sub - which disappeared on Sunday while descending 12,500ft to the wreck of the Titanic - rest on the Victor 6000, which can reach depths of 20,000ft.

The remote operated vehicle (ROV) may be able to fix a cable onto the sub before it is hauled to the surface by the Flyaway Deep Ocean Salvage System, a specialist winch which in 2021 managed to rescue a helicopter from 19,075ft deep.

The ROV is onboard the French-flagged ship Atalante, which is owned by the Ifremer ocean research institute and is currently in the north-west Atlantic travelling at 11.6kn (13mph), according to a marine tracker.

Today, the US Coast Guard released a photo of the area where the sub is believed to be located showing the pipe-laying ship Deep Energy, which has joined the search. While it also has ROVs onboard they only operate at a maximum depth of 3,000 metres (9,842 feet).

Banging noises have been detected in the rescue area every 30 minutes by a Canadian plane with underwater sonar capabilities. This has led to fresh hope that the crew of the Titan vessel are still alive, and are deliberately making noises against the hull.

Oceanographer David Gallo said that hitting the side of the sub to try and alert rescuers was something one of those trapped inside - diver Paul-Henri Nargeolet - 'would certainly do'.

Speaking to CNN, he said: 'One of the wonders I have is: did [searchers] make any signal back, acoustically, to signal to the sub that we hear their signal? Sound carries very easily through the ocean … you would hear it in the sub for sure.'

But former rear admiral Chris Parry warned this may be emanating from the Titanic itself, which 'makes a lot of noise'.

It's just past 4pm now.. so another 8 hours before the French ship gets to it's destination
 
Ships known to either be on the way or already on site are:

RESCUE VESSELS AT SEARCH SITE​


Canadian CGS John Cabot
Canadian CGS Ann Harvey
Canadian CGS Terry Fox
Canadian CGS Atlantic Merlin (ROV)
Motor Vessel Horizon Arctic
Commercial Vessel Skandi Vinland (ROV)
French Research Vessel L’Atalante (ROV)
His Majesty's Canadian Ship Glace Bay (mobile decompression chamber and medical personnel)
Bahamian Deep Energy (ROV)
AIRCRAFT
C-130s
Boeing Poseidon P-8

Admiral Parry said: 'I'm afraid the odds are vanishingly small. Obviously, we want to remain hopeful and optimistic but there are two problems here - one is actually finding the thing and secondly is how on earth are you going to get it off the seabed.

'It's never been done before and I don't think anybody's got any ideas about how to do it at the moment.'
 
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I'm looking at the sub shape and in a way it's sort of like a knife blade especially with the flat top. Have to wonder if the took it some where they shouldn't have and sub wedged itself in an opening.
 
Beezer said:
Let's not kid ourselves, folks. These submarine tourists aren't coming back. It's all very sad.
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I would tend to agree. I was just out driving around and on the news I heard they expect about 17 hours of O2 left for occupants in the sub, The US Coast Guard is due to give a news conference at 1:00 PM Eastern Time (in 45 mins from now) to discuss the rescue operation & related issues such as the noises picked up by the Canadians. I'm sure it will be well attended by news outlets world wide.
 
hawkdon said:
From what I've seen on news shows, it looks like a back=yard built contraption...seriously.....:(
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And if they are miraculously found, they should have to pay for the cost of finding them. Anybody foolish enough to board an experimental submarine with an Xbox control panel and one ‘start button’ that has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body, and could result in physical injury, disability, emotional trauma or even death should be fined. In fact, this experimental voyage should not even be legal.
 
MrPants said:
I would tend to agree. I was just out driving around and on the news I heard they expect about 17 hours of O2 left for occupants in the sub, The US Coast Guard is due to give a news conference at 1:00 PM Eastern Time (in 45 mins from now) to discuss the rescue operation & related issues such as the noises picked up by the Canadians. I'm sure it will be well attended by news outlets world wide.
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they predict that the O2 will have run out by 10am Tomorrow.. and that's if they're conserving it by not talking, and breathing very small breaths... if they're banging, and talking they'll use it up faster...
 
In addition to Deep Energy, eight other vessels are en route to the site that is 900 miles east of Cape Cod and around 400 miles southeast of Newfoundland.

There are multiple C-130 planes and Boeing Poseidon P-8s involved in the search too.


Despite the banging offering fresh hope, the Coast Guard is now cautioning that it may not be the missing crew.

'You have to remember, it's the wreck site of the Titanic. There is a lot of metal and objects in the water.

'That's why it's so important that we've engaged experts from the Navy that understand the science behind noise and give us better information about what the source of that noise may be.

'In the meantime, it's a target - a focus - for us, to look at,' Rear Adm John Mauger said on an appearance on CBS on Wednesday morning.

He added that as long as there is 'an opportunity' for survival, search and rescue crews will continue to look for the sub.

'Over the course of the next 24 hours we're bringing additional vessels and we're going to continue to fly in the air.
We're going to continue to look,' he said.

The Coast Guard has now searched 10,000 square miles of ocean surface to no avail.

Their primary hope is to find the Titan 'bobbing' on the ocean surface.

In that scenario, it would likely be hoisted onto the His Majesty's Canadian Ship Glace Bay, which is en route, and which has a decompression chamber on board.

If the Titan is stuck underwater, unable to surface, the rescue becomes more complex.

Firstly, the rescue crews will have to find it and direct a hoisting cable 2.5miles underwater.
If they are able to hook a hoist or claw onto the sub, it will have to raise the vessel slowly enough to cooperate with the underwater pressure - 400 times that of sea level.

Once on the surface, the Titan can only be opened from the exterior.

There are growing questions over the safety precautions in place and manufacturing of the 21ft Titan, which some experts likened to a slap-dash can put together haphazardly with cheap parts.

Among those trapped inside it is OceanGate Expeditions CEO, Stockton Rush.

Last year, he boasted in an interview with CBS that the Titan was 'safe'.

He claimed NASA, Boeing and The University of Washington had all signed off on the construction of the submersible, assuring its safety.

Today, NASA and The University of Washington are distancing themselves from the project.

 
Alligatorob said:
Does it require any "authorization"? It was in international waters where so far as know there is little law or regulation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters
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All watercraft for public use is required to be certified as compliant with maritime safety standards and show proof that it passed tests confirming it performs as it's supposed to/as advertised/as promised. This craft was not certified for meeting safety standards and wasn't ever tested at the depth they intended to dive. That's why the guests were asked to sign a waiver.

I don't think that waiver is going to hold water, either. Those guests couldn't have known how dangerous that craft was.

Here's a really good video that explains what that particular craft lacked, and the risks its designers and operators failed to consider or even acknowledge. And it's appalling.

 

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