gruntlabor
Well-known Member
- Location
- Last Frontier, Age 83
It really doesn't, Holly. There are other kinder ways to reduce population.
Rockets slam into Beirut in strike targets top Hezbollah commander as hundreds are killed
- Thread starter hollydolly
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hollydolly
SF VIP
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- London England
You might think so but the only way would be foreced sterlisation...
gruntlabor
Well-known Member
- Location
- Last Frontier, Age 83
No, there are many ways. Economic advantages and special favor for childless or one-child couples, disadvantages for having children ie NO ASSISTANCE, or worse. Impossible, I know, in the present social system, but attitudes can change, and have changed, very quickly.
It's irrational to claim that water coded DNA. Yet you claim that it magically took place anyway.
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Lilac
Well-known Member
- Location
- Flyover Country
There was a supervisor at work whose son was one of the young marines killed in the bombing. I met him in the summer before he was deployed when his Dad was showing him around the building.
The wife of one co-worker & I went to the funeral. I for one am glad they are still finding these SOBs after all of these years.
Well, a detailed investigation of the subject reveals that your conclusion is merely a personal opinion which goes contrary to statistical reality. You see, Most of the biggest wars were non-religiously motivated.
Examples:
The 100 Years War, the 30 Years War, the Crimean War, WWI and WW2 all had nothing to do with religion. We also had the Korean War, which was fought over territorial unity and communism vs. democracy. The Persian Gulf War which was fought over oil. The present war between Russia and Ukraine is primarily motivated by the potential economic benefits. The wars that Shaka, the Zulu chief fought against neighboring tribes was not religiously motivated.
Neither were the bloody Mongolian invasions by Genhis Khan and Attila. Neither were the genocidal wars Caesar fought against the Gauls, and the Britons, nor were all the wars Rome fought to become an empire nor was the Civil War that Caesar fought against fellow Roman Rivals motivated by religion
Neither were the three Punic Wars between Rome and Carthage. Neither were the French Revolution, nor the American Revolution, nor the Napoleonic wars nor was the bloody four-year-long American Civil War fought over religion. Nor was the Spanish American War, nor the bloody Spanish Civil War.
All these were motivated by other factors, such as territorial issues, personal momentary gain or were related to political and financial considerations or political ideological differences.
So statistically, only a tiny percentage of wars were motivated primarily by religion. Is this merely my personal opinion? Not at all!
The Myth of Religion as the Cause of Most Wars
...my argument is that claims that religious wars are more violent and greater in number than other types have no empirical evidence to support them. Such arguments are wholly anecdotal, which almost certainly explains why professional historians have not embraced them. Available quantitative analyses of history’s wars in this regard, as flawed as they are, point in a different direction: that religious conflicts are but a relatively modest percentage of the total and that other causes or ideological motivations have inspired as much or more conflict than religion. Thus, until new data are collected that demonstrate otherwise, the claim that religion is the greatest cause of war is an unsubstantiated myth.
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Prophetically, mankind is described as never learning and needing to be divested of its present authority over the Earth because of it. Just like in the film: The Day the Earth Stood Still, in which the assumption that Earth belonged to mankind to do so as it pleased was proven to be totally wrong .
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
Water did not code DNA. DNA took place CHEMICALLY, not "magically".
You're mostly right. But the Thirty Years' War was at least partially fought over religion, as was the Eighty Years' War or Dutch Revolt. The Muslim conquests from 750 AD to 1500 or so were also driven by religion, as was the Spanish "reconquista" and the Spanish attempt to subjugate England with the Armada in 1588. The Crusades were religion-based. So were the Irish and Northern Irish "Troubles."
Not all or even most wars, but a lot, especially in the less recent past.
hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
I;m not sure that it was really religious... more that it was racial.... he hated the jewish popualtion he felt they were thieves, and robbers, he felt they were dirty, they weren't white.. he wanted to have the Arian race more than he was interested in religion..
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My point is that religion (or hatred of specific religious groups) spills over into many conflicts. What is today's mess in the Middle East if not a religious war? Many of the conflicts in the Balkans trace back to religious hatred among Catholics, Orthodox Catholics and Muslims.
Similarly, religion has served as a masking device for other aggressions. The Spanish Inquisition persecuted Jews and Moors, but the inquisitors were just as interested in taking the property of those persecuted as in ensuring religious orthodoxy.
While we're at it, let's not forget the many thousands who have died in India in battles between Hindus and Muslims, and sometimes between Hindus and Sikhs.
hollydolly
SF VIP
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- London England
...yes but we know that those are religious wars..Hitlers' wasn't...
I know all about the Spanish and the Moors.. having a home in Spain as I do.. and they celebrate the Moor & Christians with a festival every year
hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
Israels' Army chief has told his forces to prepare for a ground invasion of Lebanon as the Middle East spirals towards a seemingly inevitable wider war.
Herzi Halevi told soldiers during a drill near the Lebanese border in northern Israel: 'We are attacking all day, both to prepare the ground for the possibility of your entry [into Lebanon], but also to continue striking Hezbollah.'
He added: 'Hezbollah today expanded its [range] of fire. Later today, it will receive a very strong response. Prepare yourselves.'
He told Israeli soldiers that strikes are paving the way for an impending ground invasion, adding 'your boots... will enter enemy territory'.
'You hear the jets overhead; we have been striking all day,' General Herzi Halevi told troops on the border, according to a statement from the military.
The army said it was calling up 'two reserve brigades for operational missions in the northern arena', adding: 'This will enable the continuation of combat against the Hezbollah terrorist organisation.'
Hezbollah said it had targeted Israel's Mossad spy agency on Tel Aviv's outskirts in the morning - the first time it has fired a ballistic missile in almost a year of cross-border clashes sparked by the Gaza war.
In response, Israel said it hit 60 Hezbollah intelligence sites, among hundreds of the group's targets struck across Lebanon.
Lebanon's health minister said Wednesday's strikes killed 51 people and injured 223, including in mountainous areas outside Hezbollah's traditional strongholds.
Meanwhile, the US and France are desperately working on ceasefire proposals to resolve the escalating fighting in Lebanon, according to three Israeli sources, who added that no significant progress has been made so far.
Chief of the General Staff of the Israel Defense Forces Herzi Halevi (right) meets with the Commanding Officer of the Northern Command, Major General Ori Gordin (left) in Israel, on September 20, 2024
IDF chief tells his forces to prepare for ground invasion of Lebanon
Herzi Halevi told soldiers during a drill near the Lebanese border in northern Israel: 'We are attacking all day, both to prepare the ground for the possibility of your entry [into Lebanon], but also to continue striking Hezbollah.'
He added: 'Hezbollah today expanded its [range] of fire. Later today, it will receive a very strong response. Prepare yourselves.'
He told Israeli soldiers that strikes are paving the way for an impending ground invasion, adding 'your boots... will enter enemy territory'.
'You hear the jets overhead; we have been striking all day,' General Herzi Halevi told troops on the border, according to a statement from the military.
The army said it was calling up 'two reserve brigades for operational missions in the northern arena', adding: 'This will enable the continuation of combat against the Hezbollah terrorist organisation.'
Hezbollah said it had targeted Israel's Mossad spy agency on Tel Aviv's outskirts in the morning - the first time it has fired a ballistic missile in almost a year of cross-border clashes sparked by the Gaza war.
In response, Israel said it hit 60 Hezbollah intelligence sites, among hundreds of the group's targets struck across Lebanon.
Lebanon's health minister said Wednesday's strikes killed 51 people and injured 223, including in mountainous areas outside Hezbollah's traditional strongholds.
Meanwhile, the US and France are desperately working on ceasefire proposals to resolve the escalating fighting in Lebanon, according to three Israeli sources, who added that no significant progress has been made so far.
Chief of the General Staff of the Israel Defense Forces Herzi Halevi (right) meets with the Commanding Officer of the Northern Command, Major General Ori Gordin (left) in Israel, on September 20, 2024
IDF chief tells his forces to prepare for ground invasion of Lebanon
I didn't say WWII was a religious war. I said religion played a central role, which it did. Jews are an ethnoreligious group, but I'm not aware of Hitler sparing the lives of any Jews, whether Ashkenazi, Sephardic or "pure" German converts to Judaism (of whom there were presumably few, since Judaism is not a proselytizing religion.) Similarly, the Nazis sent Christians who helped or hid Jews to the death camps.
The Spanish may celebrate "Moors and Christians" today, but they fought with each other over religion for hundreds of years.
hollydolly
SF VIP
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- London England
*sigh*
HermitHogan
Senior Member
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- 3rd Stone from the Sun
Hitler invoked "god" in every one of his speeches, so in that way, he used religion to further his objectives. And the pope at the time supported Hitler. Without religion, Hitler might not have been able to murder as many people as he did.
Hitler's "God" was non-Christian. Hitler thought Christianity was a weak, decadent religion. And the pope didn't support Hitler, just agreed to recognize Nazi Germany in return for a promise from Hitler not to persecute Catholics. Pius XII remained silent despite evidence of the Holocaust, and that was bad enough.
Not sure what that's supposed to mean, but we move on.*sigh*
HermitHogan
Senior Member
- Location
- 3rd Stone from the Sun
Yeah, Hitler wasn't religious, per se, but he used religion to rally the public and to incite hatred and prejudice.
No argument there.
Debrah N.
Senior Member
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Governments fight and the civilians pay the price. Terribly sad.
Debrah N.
Senior Member
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Maybe we've all been so indoctrinated to believe the mantra of 'Growth at any cost', that we've come to believe that. But who is actually 'growing' beside the bank accounts of corporations and their heads? Their score keeping ($$$$) is not benefiting the masses or infrastructure.
Hezbollah is not a government, it's a terrorist organization (one responsible for running drugs into the US, I might add). And like Hamas it deliberately sites its operations in civilian locations to maximize collateral damage.
Debrah N.
Senior Member
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Not sure what the German people think, but their government has decided to slam any support for the Palestinian people and has even taken the step of banning Yanis Varoufakis from coming into the country. He was disinvited by Vienna’s Academy of Fine Arts from delivering the prestigious Otto Wagner Lecture because of his stance on the conflict. Germany decided that wasn't going to happen.