Very good article. I have not forgot about the plight of animals even if I can't watch the videos right now. They are the worst treated beings on this earth...IMO. I have bought a lot of vegetarian food this week. I'm going to have a salad with avocado, olives, tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuce, spinach and olive oil and balsamic vinegar for dinner soon. I've been up since 11 last night so it's about time for dinner for me. Did you see the Magical Loaf recipe I posted in the Recipe section of the Food and Drinks Forums? I have to try that out! It's vegan.The longer I live like this and pay attention to my own health, the more amazed I am too at how we function! It's really quite marvellous isn't it? And I have many of the same thoughts that you've expressed here Ruthanne. Peas in a pod!
And just as a followup to the opening article, this link shows that more and more people in the UK are beginning to think the same way about all of this, to the point that the Pig Save vigils are giving the meat and dairy industry serious concerns. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...terrorism-vigils-animal-welfare-a7579251.html
'...According to latest estimates, 542,000 Brits are now vegans, up from 150,000 in 2006 – a 350 per cent increase in just over a decade. Official supermarket revenue statistics for 2016 showed the biggest losers were meat and dairy, while the biggest gains came for dairy-free products. Overall sales of plant-based products are up 1,500 per cent....Big food and hospitality brands, from Harvester and Wetherspoons to Pret A Manger and Sainsbury’s, are launching successful vegan ranges. Last month, Sainsbury’s reported that sales of its new own-brand vegan cheeses were 300 per cent greater than it had anticipated....'
Sainsbury's to Begin Promoting a Vegetarian Diet More
- Thread starter Debby
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Capt Lightning
Well-known Member
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- Historic Buchan, Scotland
You'll probably think that I'm on par with Satan, but I've just seen the first batch of sheep off to the abattoir today, and tomorrow, I'll be butchering and packing fresh lamb. I just might have a nice piece of roast lamb on Sunday, but it's OK, I'll tear up some innocent vegetables and boil them alive to eat along with the food.
And, I certainly won't be shopping in Sainsbury's.
And, I certainly won't be shopping in Sainsbury's.
Debby
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- East coast of Canada
It's very interesting, I constantly see complaints by people that vegans 'push their ideas' down the throats of everyone else, and yet here you are again.....
But hey, you're here and you're talking and communication is often the beginning of understanding right? And what we all need to understand is that over the next 34 years, there will be another 2 billion people on the planet. And with plant protein providing more protein calories per acre than meat or dairy, and a plant diet having better health outcomes overall,things are beginning to change which accounts for Sainsbury and several hospitals beginning to promote a veg diet. Not to mention the growing assortment of vegan type foodstuffs that are very tasty.
There's also a class now being offered at Berkley (in California), an entrepreneurial class on plant based 'meats' with the goal being to encourage the students to produce the most innovative plant based 'meat' product. And last year, as I once mentioned, an Alberta University team produced a gelato that was made of pea protein and was impossible to detect from the traditional in a blind taste test. http://www.chooseveg.com/this-class-on-plant-based-meats-is-proof
Another interesting fact that I learned was that the loss of sharks (for shark fin soup) is a danger to our existence too. Those sharks eat the fish that eat the phytoplankton that apparently produce 70% of the worlds oxygen. Lose the sharks and those fish deplete the algae's that supply the planet with breathable air.
Couple that threat with the pollution of the oceans as a result of the massive runoff from the production of animal feeds and the loss of forests in Brazil which causes the land to move and change in the rains, and it's pretty obvious to anyone who gives it some serious thought, that the food production changes that are happening are absolutely necessary.
Even China has decided that it is going to start actively promoting a veg diet with their citizens with the intention of halving meat consumption by 50% by 2030. There are lots of things we can accuse China of over the years, but being short sighted is not one of them. Brits and North Americans on the other hand.....
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/20/chinas-meat-consumption-climate-change
...The Chinese government has outlined a plan to reduce its citizens’ meat consumption by 50%, in a move that climate campaigners hope will provide major heft in the effort to avoid runaway global warming.New dietary guidelines drawn up by China’s health ministry recommend that the nation’s 1.3 billion population should consume between 40g to 75g of meat per person each day. The measures, released once every 10 years, are designed to improve public health but could also provide a significant cut to greenhouse gas emissions......'
But hey, you're here and you're talking and communication is often the beginning of understanding right? And what we all need to understand is that over the next 34 years, there will be another 2 billion people on the planet. And with plant protein providing more protein calories per acre than meat or dairy, and a plant diet having better health outcomes overall,things are beginning to change which accounts for Sainsbury and several hospitals beginning to promote a veg diet. Not to mention the growing assortment of vegan type foodstuffs that are very tasty.
There's also a class now being offered at Berkley (in California), an entrepreneurial class on plant based 'meats' with the goal being to encourage the students to produce the most innovative plant based 'meat' product. And last year, as I once mentioned, an Alberta University team produced a gelato that was made of pea protein and was impossible to detect from the traditional in a blind taste test. http://www.chooseveg.com/this-class-on-plant-based-meats-is-proof
Another interesting fact that I learned was that the loss of sharks (for shark fin soup) is a danger to our existence too. Those sharks eat the fish that eat the phytoplankton that apparently produce 70% of the worlds oxygen. Lose the sharks and those fish deplete the algae's that supply the planet with breathable air.
Couple that threat with the pollution of the oceans as a result of the massive runoff from the production of animal feeds and the loss of forests in Brazil which causes the land to move and change in the rains, and it's pretty obvious to anyone who gives it some serious thought, that the food production changes that are happening are absolutely necessary.
Even China has decided that it is going to start actively promoting a veg diet with their citizens with the intention of halving meat consumption by 50% by 2030. There are lots of things we can accuse China of over the years, but being short sighted is not one of them. Brits and North Americans on the other hand.....
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/20/chinas-meat-consumption-climate-change
...The Chinese government has outlined a plan to reduce its citizens’ meat consumption by 50%, in a move that climate campaigners hope will provide major heft in the effort to avoid runaway global warming.New dietary guidelines drawn up by China’s health ministry recommend that the nation’s 1.3 billion population should consume between 40g to 75g of meat per person each day. The measures, released once every 10 years, are designed to improve public health but could also provide a significant cut to greenhouse gas emissions......'
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Debby
Well-known Member
- Location
- East coast of Canada
Other countries besides China which are recommending/promoting or orchestrating a cut in meat consumption:
https://www.grain.org/es/article/en...industrial-meat-and-dairy-to-save-the-climate
▪ Denmark: In May 2016, the Danish Ethics Council called for a national tax on red meat.[35]
▪ Sweden: In 2013, the Swedish Board of Agriculture proposed a differentiated tax on meat (meat that generates the most GHG emissions to be taxed more than meats producing less) to be set up at the EU level.[36]
▪ China: In June 2016, Beijing announced a bold new policy that aims to cut people's current meat consumption by 50 per cent (to 40g daily) through new national dietary guidelines.
▪ California: In August 2016, the state of California, which produces 20 per cent of the US milk supply, enacted a law saying that dairy farms must cut GHG emissions by 40 per cent by 2030. While the objective is bold, the risk is that it leads to more concentration around a few big farms that can afford to install methane reactors.
▪ Ireland: In October 2016, Irish authorities released a first study on the carbon footprint of the average Irish person's diet.[37] Red meat accounts for 40 per cent of all food-related emissions. The government may now consider incorporating climate concerns into the nation's dietary guidelines.
▪ Netherlands: In 2016, the Netherlands Nutrition Centre recommended that Dutch citizens reduce their weekly meat consumption to less than 500g (half of what the USDA suggests), and limit red meat consumption to 300 g per week because of “the livestock industry’s massive environmental impact”.[38]
and the UN has also called for a major reduction in how much meat you eat. What will our grandchildren be saying in fifty years about how we have squandered their world if nothing were to change? But things will/are changing, just not as fast as they should because as usual, humans by and large never do what is needed until they are faced with a crisis. Methinks we teeter on the verge of 'crisis'.
So do the planet a favour Captain and go have a salad! Good for all of us including you!
https://www.grain.org/es/article/en...industrial-meat-and-dairy-to-save-the-climate
Box 3. What governments are already doing
Thumbs up▪ Denmark: In May 2016, the Danish Ethics Council called for a national tax on red meat.[35]
▪ Sweden: In 2013, the Swedish Board of Agriculture proposed a differentiated tax on meat (meat that generates the most GHG emissions to be taxed more than meats producing less) to be set up at the EU level.[36]
▪ China: In June 2016, Beijing announced a bold new policy that aims to cut people's current meat consumption by 50 per cent (to 40g daily) through new national dietary guidelines.
▪ California: In August 2016, the state of California, which produces 20 per cent of the US milk supply, enacted a law saying that dairy farms must cut GHG emissions by 40 per cent by 2030. While the objective is bold, the risk is that it leads to more concentration around a few big farms that can afford to install methane reactors.
▪ Ireland: In October 2016, Irish authorities released a first study on the carbon footprint of the average Irish person's diet.[37] Red meat accounts for 40 per cent of all food-related emissions. The government may now consider incorporating climate concerns into the nation's dietary guidelines.
▪ Netherlands: In 2016, the Netherlands Nutrition Centre recommended that Dutch citizens reduce their weekly meat consumption to less than 500g (half of what the USDA suggests), and limit red meat consumption to 300 g per week because of “the livestock industry’s massive environmental impact”.[38]
and the UN has also called for a major reduction in how much meat you eat. What will our grandchildren be saying in fifty years about how we have squandered their world if nothing were to change? But things will/are changing, just not as fast as they should because as usual, humans by and large never do what is needed until they are faced with a crisis. Methinks we teeter on the verge of 'crisis'.
So do the planet a favour Captain and go have a salad
! Good for all of us including you!
Debby
Well-known Member
- Location
- East coast of Canada
Just curious if you actually read the article that you linked to WhatInThe? Because while it points out some problem vegetables, it also says the following:
[.....'Some types of meat, however, are still much worse than most vegetables. Beef is one of the worst types of meat, and while many people in India don't consume it, India is the world's largest exporter of beef.
The argument against meat-eating (keeping aside the moral issue of slaughtering sentient beings) tends to be this: the amount of land cleared to take care of livestock is much larger than agricultural land, so that reduces the number of trees The logic here is that trees can take carbon out of the atmosphere, so they can undo some of the damage we do by pumping loads of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere through our factories, cars and food production. If we cut them down to make more food, then we're losing out on the carbon-absorbing and air purifying benefits trees give us.....That doesn't mean you shouldn't think about cutting down on the meat in your diet. Eating meat leaves behind a massive carbon footprint. And while there are a number of other reasons to cut meat out of your diet, this serves as a reminder that nothing in this world is clear cut....']
I suppose, in the interest of protecting the planet, to focus on foods that give you the least emissions with the most nutrition and then eat a varied diet. Obviously a diet of lettuce (see the article for the statement on it's carbon footprint) is not going to work on so many levels. Nor does it make sense to try and replace all the meat in ones diet with broccoli as also mentioned in the article.
A graphic that makes it very clear as to which diet overall is the best for the environment would be the following:
Meat Lover, Average, No Beef, Vegetarian and Vegan
For each diet we look solely at the emissions associated with food supply, so we do not include those from consumer’s transportation, storage or the cooking of food. Nor do we consider land use change emissions.Rather than bore you with the methodology let’s start with the results and work back through how they were calculated.
The results of our analysis look like this:
image: http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/foodprint5.gif
Read more at http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/food-carbon-footprint-diet#kyTwLtB7IUXY6EsM.99
I wonder what that graph might look like if you started including the land use changes (logging for feed production, etc), transportation and so on. My guess is the meat inclusive diet's footprint would go up even more.
But to a degree you are right that we should be eating local as much as it is feasible although there are instances where eating a local apple in the middle of winter might not be as carbon sensitive as buying a fruit that was fresh picked by hand in a far away country and then transported to your locations. It was pointed out in one article that I read, that the transportation expenditures of carbon emissions is usually less than the carbon emissions that come from putting the local apple into storage for a period of months because there's the cost of the 'climate control' in the storage facility, transport to the facility, transport back to the retail and then transport for you to get to the farmers market, etc. It's very complicated issue, that's for sure.
dearimee
Member
- Location
- Charlotte nc
I think they ought to have a couple recipes posted at certain veggies they want you to buy so you can see it's use plainly. Too many won't even try a new vegetable because they don't know what to do with it. We all love looking at good food so this might tempt us to try it if the picture of a dish is enticing. I know I don't know enough about most vegetables so I don't have a wide range in my mind to choose from.
Debby
Well-known Member
- Location
- East coast of Canada
I think doctors don't say much about your diet Ruthanne because they don't get a lot of education on it. I was on a website once discussing nutrition and so on and there was one guy who identified as a doctor and he said they had a class that was about six hours worth of discussing pretty much just vitamins and vitamin deficiencies. But nothing about how to attain proper nutrition from your diet or how it's better to get your nutrients from whole foods as opposed to a bad diet but take your vitamins. So I'm not surprised that you were unaware. We trust our doctors to tell us what we need to know, but seriously they often don't know.
I even once read an article written by and MD who basically said that people who get wound up about eating healthy and eating organic food are clueless because what you eat has very little to do with your health. That was about ten years ago. Hopefully he isn't influencing patients anymore. Maybe with that kind of attitude he's had a heart attack and his patients are now safe from his misinformation.
I even once read an article written by and MD who basically said that people who get wound up about eating healthy and eating organic food are clueless because what you eat has very little to do with your health. That was about ten years ago. Hopefully he isn't influencing patients anymore. Maybe with that kind of attitude he's had a heart attack and his patients are now safe from his misinformation.
Debby
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- Location
- East coast of Canada
I once saw a recipe for batter on brussels sprouts and then deep frying them. It actually looked pretty good but I won't be trying it because my husband hates them.
My doctor is pretty knowledgeable about what to eat, Debby. Lots of veggies she says. Fruit- but not too much for me. Small portions of rice, noodles, or other grains for each meal. She showed me portion size with her hands. Protein the size of your palm.
Redlo Nosrep
New Member
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- Western Washington
When we first started dating, my husband-to-be proudly showed me the contents of his bowl after a trip through the salad bar: two wedges of iceberg lettuce slathered with thousand-island dressing and topped with bacon bits. In his defense, his family also served wilted lettuce salad with bacon grease the first time I joined them for dinner. Vegetarian fare was not served in their house. Whereas MY salad bowl then and now usually consists of mixed baby lettuces, bean sprouts, garbanzo beans, carrots, radishes, green pepper, jicama, radishes, mushrooms, green onions, avocado, and any other fresh veggies I have on hand, topped with Asian sesame or vinaigrette dressing. It's been nearly 40 years of coaxing and wheedling, but hubby's salad bowl now resembles mine more often than not. He's still not wild about "rabbit food" but he eats it, which is all that matters.
Sometimes we bake them in the oven until browned on the outside and tender on the inside. First seasoning them and drizzling them with light olive oil. Most of the time we just steam them.
Debby
Well-known Member
- Location
- East coast of Canada
There are so many wonderful flavours beyond iceberg lettuce aren't there? Your salads sound wonderful and I'm a particular fan of Asian type dressings too. Generally I make my own using hemp oil for the omega 3's and raw grated garlic , maple syrup and soy sauce for flavouring plus the addition of pepper and turmeric. I'm a bit of a health nut so I always look for one more thing that will make stuff just a wee bit healthier which is actually kind of problematic when I think of it.
My aunts both died at 92 and their last five years were not a joy to them and based on their experiences, I'd prefer to pass when I'm 85 but eating the way I do, I fear that I will live until I'm old like a 110 year old I saw on a video earlier this week. 110 years old, staring at her coffee cup and hardly responding to the questions the news woman directed at her....hmmm, maybe in ten years I should start eating only deep fried foods and skip the salads???
Debby
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- Location
- East coast of Canada
We don't eat a lot of fruit either. Maybe a dish of wild blueberries in the evening or a smoothie after Don comes home from the gym. I have found that a frozen banana, a big orange and chocolate protein powder and a touch of ginger powder makes a lovely combination.
Do you drink a lot of fruit juice? I find that it's way too sweet for me, yech, so I usually dilute it by half on the rare occasion when I will drink it.
And I think that dearimee's idea of little cards with photos and recipes posted near vegetables is a great idea. I once watched Jaimie Oliver trying to teach some Londoners about cooking with colourful healthy vegetables and I couldn't believe the reactions! They were so negative about eating anything that wasn't brown! (with brown denoting deep fried, etc.)
RadishRose
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- Connecticut, USA
Supermarkets in my area have been supplying those little recipe cards in produce departments for many years. Recently they are becoming scarce. I wonder if it's to save money or because not enough people take them. I have taken some occasionally.
As for Jamie Oliver trying to get people to eat better- he does that in the US too. Years ago he tried to revamp a US public school's really horrible lunch offerings and was met with so much opposition from the higher ups in that town it was almost hostile!
School lunches have improved somewhat since then but I felt so bad for Jamie Oliver during that filming.
As for Jamie Oliver trying to get people to eat better- he does that in the US too. Years ago he tried to revamp a US public school's really horrible lunch offerings and was met with so much opposition from the higher ups in that town it was almost hostile!
School lunches have improved somewhat since then but I felt so bad for Jamie Oliver during that filming.
Redlo Nosrep
New Member
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- Western Washington
Yum! Yes, we eat raw garlic and turmeric every day, too, along with apple cider vinegar. Stick with that regimen, and when you're 110, you'll be doing cartwheels for the news crew who interviews you.
Debby
Well-known Member
- Location
- East coast of Canada
While I can use a clove of raw garlic in a salad dressing, just eating the stuff raw for it's medicinal value (by itself) just turns my stomach something awful. I have to munch a bunch of dry crackers first then wash the garlic down with a glass of water than eat some more raw crackers and then sit down and allow my stomach to quit heaving. But on the upside, I did have a UTI that was starting to affect my kidneys and I used it (garlic)for a week, three times a day to get rid of the problem. Fortunately, we had just moved across the country and had no friends dropping in so I wasn't going to offend anyone with the garlic effect.
I do use turmeric daily like you, but you're stronger than I if you are able to use garlic daily as a preventative.
.I do use turmeric daily like you, but you're stronger than I if you are able to use garlic daily as a preventative.
I think you can get garlic in capsules. I wouldn't like to munch on garlic either.While I can use a clove of raw garlic in a salad dressing, just eating the stuff raw for it's medicinal value (by itself) just turns my stomach something awful. I have to munch a bunch of dry crackers first then wash the garlic down with a glass of water than eat some more raw crackers and then sit down and allow my stomach to quit heaving. But on the upside, I did have a UTI that was starting to affect my kidneys and I used it (garlic)for a week, three times a day to get rid of the problem. Fortunately, we had just moved across the country and had no friends dropping in so I wasn't going to offend anyone with the garlic effect
I do use turmeric daily like you, but you're stronger than I if you are able to use garlic daily as a preventative.