Schwab's Advice For Retirees Unprepared For Market Downturns

mathjak107 said:
they are fools if they chase yield .

no matter what the yield is if your share value falls more you lost money .

in the case of jepi you lost 6% over just one week and 5% over the last month and that is counting all that interest .

a money market was a better investment so far this year . you would have over 6% more with interest from the money market

if you don’t understand this and the fact that fund is now losing money you shouldn’t be telling people what is good
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The yield does matter when that's what you're in it for. This is a long-term strategy.
You don't lose money when a share falls unless you sell it. It's mind blowing that you don't understand that.
 

bobcat said:
The yield does matter when that's what you're in it for. This is a long-term strategy.
You don't lose money when a share falls unless you sell it. It's mind blowing that you don't understand that.
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that is 100% false .

we invest for a total return which means , dividends , appreciation,and interest and it’s that total return that determines if we made money or lost money .

gaining a dollar in dividend and losing two dollars in value is a losing investment PERIOD .


in order to have a good investment it needs a positive total return
a loss is a loss and no amount of yield can make a losing investment decent .

if there is a chance you can lose 6% of your investment in a week THAT IS A VOLATILE investment , and it did just that
 
mathjak107 said:
that is 100% false .

we invest for a total return which means , dividends , appreciation,and interest and it’s that total return that determines if we made money or lost money .

gaining a dollar in dividend and losing two dollars in value is a losing investment PERIOD .


in order to have a good investment it needs a positive total return
a loss is a loss and no amount of yield can make a losing investment decent .

if there is a chance you can lose 6% of your investment in a week THAT IS A VOLATILE investment , and it did just that
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A good investment is one that pays you a satisfactory return on your money.
If it gives a return of 7% to %12 per year, that's a good investment in my book, plus I still own the asset.
I am a big fan of money markets and High Yield Savings, and CD's, and at our age, I think they are wise, but for an income stock, I will take this one. You can disagree all you want, but thankfully, you're not my financial advisor.
 

bobcat said:
A good investment is one that pays you a satisfactory return on your money.
If it gives a return of 7% to %12 per year, that's a good investment in my book, plus I still own the asset.
I am a big fan of money markets and High Yield Savings, and CD's, and at our age, I think they are wise, but for an income stock, I will take this one. You can disagree all you want, but thankfully, you're not my financial advisor.
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The subject bent discussed were money markets here

This fund is not that class at all
It’s akin to a junk bond fund in behavior and yield
 
JEPI is now the world's largest actively managed ETF with nearly $40 billion under management.
It is extremely popular with investors as it has shown steady growth every year.
Morningstar gives them a Bronze rating.
The fact that you think they are a waste of time speaks volumes.
 
bobcat said:
JEPI is now the world's largest actively managed ETF with nearly $40 billion under management.
It is extremely popular with investors as it has shown steady growth every year.
Morningstar gives them a Bronze rating.
The fact that you think they are a waste of time speaks volumes.Itis
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you lost sight of the entire discussion.

the discussion was about where to store cash without risk like a high yield savings account .

what you suggested isn’t anything like a savings account .

a savings account does not have your principal at risk of loss .

whatyou suggested lost 6% of its value in a week .

that is like owning a junk bond fund .

that is okay if someone wants to risk their principal .

but that wasn’t the discussion here and no one interested in a high yield savings account should be buying a fund with enough volatility to have 6% of its value vanish in a week , whether it comes back one day or not.

that is an option when someone is looking for a more volatile investment with risk of loss.
 
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mathjak107 said:
you lost sight of the entire discussion.

the discussion was about where to store cash without risk like a high yield savings account .

what you suggested isn’t anything like a savings account .

a savings account does not have your principal at risk of loss .

whatyou suggested lost 6% of its value in a week .

that is like owning a junk bond fund .

that is okay if someone wants to risk their principal .

but that wasn’t the discussion here and no one interested in a high yield savings account should be buying a fund with enough volatility to have 6% of its value vanish in a week , whether it comes back one day or not.

that is an option when someone is looking for a more volatile investment with risk of loss.
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I've given your opinion far more time than it deserves.
We can agree to disagree.
 
bobcat said:
A good investment is one that pays you a satisfactory return on your money.
If it gives a return of 7% to %12 per year, that's a good investment in my book, plus I still own the asset.
I am a big fan of money markets and High Yield Savings, and CD's, and at our age, I think they are wise, but for an income stock, I will take this one. You can disagree all you want, but thankfully, you're not my financial advisor.
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7-12 is too low. Try 100-200 per year, that's how much i make on my assets.
 
Sarahmax said:
You can buy gold directly from the miners and resell at more than 100% profit.
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no you can , no one else here is doing it .

plus without proof that you have the bulk of all your assets getting that return no one would believe you regardless .

most forums have an unwritten rule , if the investment was not posted first in advance than that return never happened
 
Dear, just because you don't know how it works doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I don't know how to attach media, i would have posted proof for you to clear your doubts.
 
Sarahmax said:
7-12 is too low. Try 100-200 per year, that's how much i make on my assets.
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Well, cash buyers have been buying gold from miners since before the gold rush, and as all of them know, not all gold is created equal (Hence the karat rating system), and raw gold needs refining, unless perhaps you are selling it to a hobbyist or a collector. Since this is nothing new, I would tend to think that if it's so profitable, everyone would be doing it.

I often hear stories of people making great profits, but most of the time, reality is a bit different than the story. It's like a person who claims they bought a house for $250,000 and sold it for $300,000 and made a $50,000 profit in 6 months. However, they forget to mention the real estate and escrow fees, the improvement materials, and their labor.

I won't say your claim is impossible, but color me skeptical.
 
I would like to hear more about how to achieve these spectacular returns, what portion of your assets are at risk and how significant a portion of your income they provide.

It’s been my experience that huge returns are possible with the small scale purchase and sale of collectibles and antiques but the results drop dramatically when you attempt to do any significant volume of transactions.

I’m thinking that this situation may be similar. 🤔

Please tell us more!
 
Sarahmax said:
I believe everyone should know by now to hold reserve assets like gold.
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Holding gold may not be for everyone. I considered buying gold three different times and decided not to each time. I remember with that whole "Y2K, our economy is going to crash" thing, the advice was to stock up on gold. Didn't do it then either. But good for those who have successfully invested in gold.
 
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gold has been a great investment for more than two decades now .

i has totally crushed owning bonds and cash instruments

it is up 40% the last year and it has beaten the s&p and total market funds the last 3 years .

gold is not a competitor to stocks , it is a competitor to the dollar .

it goes with stocks .

in fact for more than 25 years you would be hard pressed to find a time a mix of stocks and gold didn’t beat stocks and bonds

many very conservative portfolios like the famous permanent portfolio use gold as a component.

while gold alone is very volatile it loses that volatility when encased in a portfolio that uses risk parity

the famous portfolio the permanent portfolio has been in use now for more than 50 years by conservative investors .

no other portfolio in history has more books , articles and literature written about it .

while no portfolio can stand up when risk is off and rates are riding , eventually we fall in to one of the big four outcomes.

recession

depression

prosperity

high inflation/ weak dollar

the permanent portfolio has an asset class that reacts strongly to each one

25% vti or voo for equities

25% gld gold

25% long term bonds , tlt

25% cash instruments


at times it can be like watching paint dry but it can move quite a bit on days more than one asset move in the same direction but overall they all move independently eventually smoothing out the ride .

this isn’t a recommendation by me but only an example of a popular conservative portfolio with gold as a key player
 
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bobcat said:
You don't lose money when a share falls unless you sell it. It's mind blowing that you don't understand that.
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Not really. If a share falls in value you have lost money. Period. What you haven't done is realized the loss. And not realizing losses during market down periods is probably a good idea for many of us for various reasons. But, you still have lost money until the shares go up again, if they do that. (Which we hope they will).
 
Brookswood said:
Not really. If a share falls in value you have lost money. Period. What you haven't done is realized the loss. And not realizing losses during market down periods is probably a good idea for many of us for various reasons. But, you still have lost money until the shares go up again, if they do that. (Which we hope they will).
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that is exactly what i said.

there is no such thing as it does not count unless you sell .

it always counts, sell or not

itx amazing how many dont get it.

selling a total market fund that is down and riding a s&p fund back is no different than keeping the same investment in play and hoping to ride it back.

the damage is only done when someone is down and bails out to a less capable asset to ride back like cash .

but simply trading one investment for an equally capable asset is no problem.

but in either case all we do is hope it comes back in a reasonable amount of time , we are just as down in either case AND IT COUNTS.

retirement incomes have been destroyed by people hanging in to long with to high of an allocation to equities going in to retirement .

safe withdrawal rates don’t care if you sold or not . it’s all based on balance
 
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Brookswood said:
Not really. If a share falls in value you have lost money. Period. What you haven't done is realized the loss. And not realizing losses during market down periods is probably a good idea for many of us for various reasons. But, you still have lost money until the shares go up again, if they do that. (Which we hope they will).
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I completely disagree. If you don't sell the stock, it is only perceived value, not actual money (dollars).
 
bobcat said:
I completely disagree. If you don't sell the stock, it is only perceived value, not actual money (dollars).
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you can disagree all you want but you are still wrong . that is all your money accessible to you at any point in time and your value at any point in time IF YOU HAVE REASON TO WANT TO KNOW .

dont confuse not caring with the fact you may be down for one or two decades , its happened

do you understand how retirement incomes are calculated ?

networth statements?

asset based loans .

THE FACT IT TOOK 20 years for markets to come back in the 1960’s and ten years in 2000.

there is zero difference between you being Down 40% with a million dollar portfolio and gaming 600k left vs someone buying exactly what you own today with 600k .

there is no difference

your portfolios are worth the same thing
 

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