Attitudes of what is black and white can fluctuate as can be seen by the change in yours toward your friend. Sometimes we just mis-read what we're seeing. I'm learning to adopt a "whatever" attitude going through what is left of life.I'm feeling a bit more positive myself about my friend this morning I admit, though I know my psyche will be assaulted with more "one upmanship", "how could I be so stupid as to think this or that", "purchase this or that when it could have been bought somewhere else cheaper", or whatever it might be!!!!
The other side of the coin is that I have taken full advantage of her very kind friendship over many years, and the "stability" in her household, when I've been for example "stressed at work, almost beyond my limit", has helped me feel back to normal again sometimes, and she's written very supportive letters in relation to some long running legal trouble I've been having, (too long a story to address here!).
My friend has had to overcome my telling her a month or so ago, (in as nice a way as I could do so), that I thought she treated me like a child, and as I've said in the OP I think she does struggle to deal with any criticism, "tough a skin as she likes to present herself as having"!
I'll do my best to be especially nice to her today and let you know how that turns out!
Seeing things as being only "black and white" in arguments, (can become a negative characteristic!?)
- Thread starter grahamg
- Start date
I could say the same."God bless her", (my own mum was a bit of a handful to deal with it has to be said, though I discovered after she died that when she said "she had done her best as a mother", (or in life), she was speaking the truth and I didn't appreciate it was so.
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
Maybe I'm easily wound up by what others might find "laudable behaviour" but I went to the local bar last night, (my friend declining to join me because "she wished to catch up on her soap opera viewing" she said, (I fear she's becoming a bit anti-social but that's just my guess!).
Anyway, in the local bar, or "pub" as we call them, the bar staff showed me to a room where a grown up family of four rwere already seated, having had a meal, (husband and wife, their son, and his wife/partner).
My job there was to try to concentrate on my newspaper, or book I'd taken along, and not to make them feel I was listening in to their conversation too much, but of course you had no choice other than to do so.
The only one of the four of them I'd imagine ever wanting to sit in a room with again was the father, who had the least to say of the four, and didn't say anything you could object to in any way.
The mother seemed a pretty dominant character, (posh and a bit "affected" if you know what I mean, married almost thirty years "this time" I learned, her joke on her husband obviously!). Her son had plenty enough to say for himself, and like his mother was "affected" I thought, or portraying himself in a virtuous manner whenever the opportunity arose, whilst at the same time asserting himself, but it was the daughter in law who sticks in the memory far too much, and made me every very glad when they all chose to leave.
Her level of affectation was off the scale in my view, she liked the sound of her own voice as much as any I've heard recently, and the prattle she came out with was in my opinion, just a load of old nonsense.
The negative characteristics I've spoken of in my good friend mentioned in the OP were on show here in spades, in my view, never more than in this young woman's character, though I could of course be completely wrong, and if you were to meet them you'd probably think the exact opposite, and love them to move into your neighbourhood.
BTW my attempt to be especially nice to my friend has been partially successful and I will leave her home this morning on good terms again, so that is all very positive, though we entered a discussion about sport yesterday and were of completely different opinions as to whether "sport was all about winning or not", and I'll leave you to work out which side of that argument we both were(?)
palides2021
Well-known Member
- Location
- MidAtlantic, USA
I read once, that you can treat a person as a parent treats a child, or you can treat them as an adult treats an adult. I get the Parent/Child treatment from my doctor. Sometimes I have to catch myself when talking to my son as Parent to Child because it has become a habit, but he's 21, so I'm trying very hard to treat him as an Adult to Adult, and it's really a wonderful feeling to treat him like that and be treated as an adult by him. So having a discussion along that line might help you get a more even keel, adult-to-adult relationship.I'm feeling a bit more positive myself about my friend this morning I admit, though I know my psyche will be assaulted with more "one upmanship", "how could I be so stupid as to think this or that", "purchase this or that when it could have been bought somewhere else cheaper", or whatever it might be!!!!
The other side of the coin is that I have taken full advantage of her very kind friendship over many years, and the "stability" in her household, when I've been for example "stressed at work, almost beyond my limit", has helped me feel back to normal again sometimes, and she's written very supportive letters in relation to some long running legal trouble I've been having, (too long a story to address here!).
My friend has had to overcome my telling her a month or so ago, (in as nice a way as I could do so), that I thought she treated me like a child, and as I've said in the OP I think she does struggle to deal with any criticism, "tough a skin as she likes to present herself as having"!
I'll do my best to be especially nice to her today and let you know how that turns out!
Ladybj
Live, Laugh and Love
- Location
- Somewhere in the USA
My uncle (may he RIP) use to say, there are 3 sides - Yours, Mine and the Truth.
Ladybj
Live, Laugh and Love
- Location
- Somewhere in the USA
My hubby sees one view - His.
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
"We've done that one earlier on the thread I believe", (not applicable in all circumstances was the upshot
! )
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
"I hope he gets your permission to say his views first"?
WheatenLover
Well-known Member
- Location
- Georgia
My kids have big helpings of black and white thinking. Their father is "a horrible person", for example. Except that he is not -- he gets zero credit for all the things he's done and said that are positive. If he disagrees with them about social issues or politics, he is again dubbed "a horrible person".
And that is just one example of very many.
And that is just one example of very many.
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
More research needed:
https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/black-and-white-thinking
Quote:
"Black and white thinking is the tendency to think in extremes: I am a brilliant success, or I am an utter failure. My boyfriend is an angel, or Heâs the devil incarnate.
This thought pattern, which the American Psychological Association also calls dichotomous or polarized thinking, is considered a cognitive distortion because it keeps us from seeing the world as it often is: complex, nuanced, and full of all the shades in between.
An all-or-nothing mindset doesnât allow us to find the middle ground. And letâs face it: Thereâs a reason most people donât live on Everest or in the Mariana Trench. Itâs hard to sustain life at those extremes.
Most of us engage in dichotomous thinking from time to time. In fact, some experts think this pattern may have its origins in human survival â our fight or flight response.
But if thinking in black and white becomes a habit, it can:
"
Itâs the product of a success or failure mindset, which is a natural outgrowth of a grading system that defines failure (scores of 0â59) as over half the grading scale.
Some courses even have a simple binary to measure learning: pass or fail. One or the other.
Itâs all too easy to fall into dichotomous thinking about your academic accomplishments."
and more here, quote:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...s-black-white-thinking-in-yourself-and-others
"Polarized, black-and-white thinking is a big problem. It distorts our understanding of realities involving shades of gray, which most human realities are. Binary thinking produces misleading maps of a complicated, nuanced world.
When we face difficult situations, all-or-none thinking blinds us to the possibility of a middle ground, leaving us with only simple, extreme options that rarely work. This type of cognition results in maladaptive emotions and behaviors, an array of mental health diagnoses too numerous to mention, and in its milder and more common forms, all sorts of problems in living and relationships.
Everyone engages in black and white thinking sometimes, because it is quicker and easier than careful consideration of a spectrum of possibilities. Problems arise when we rely on it too much, especially in dealing with emotionally important situations, issues and relationships.
Persistent problems in a particular life area suggest that some kind of dichotomous thinking is going on below the surface, driving the ineffective functioning. This is especially true when extreme emotions and/or behaviors occur, because these are the hallmarks of polarized cognition."
Break
"For example, in responding to conflicts, passive behavior is usually ineffective, and so is its opposite aggressive, while the option in the middle assertive behavior, is most likely to be effective."
Break
"Of course, this paradigm doesnât apply to everythingâit applies to personality-related styles or ways of operating, as opposed to traits that are good by definition, like skills, talents, and capabilities. For example, the type of spectrum we are interested in would not have âsocially skilledâ at one end and âsocially awkwardâ at the other, but it might have âaloofâ at one pole and âclingyâ at the other, because these words describe opposite styles of interpersonal functioning, with âfriendlyâ in the middle."
Then there's a scale and a test to take on the website showing "social dimensions of functioning".
https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/black-and-white-thinking
Quote:
"Black and white thinking is the tendency to think in extremes: I am a brilliant success, or I am an utter failure. My boyfriend is an angel, or Heâs the devil incarnate.
This thought pattern, which the American Psychological Association also calls dichotomous or polarized thinking, is considered a cognitive distortion because it keeps us from seeing the world as it often is: complex, nuanced, and full of all the shades in between.
An all-or-nothing mindset doesnât allow us to find the middle ground. And letâs face it: Thereâs a reason most people donât live on Everest or in the Mariana Trench. Itâs hard to sustain life at those extremes.
Most of us engage in dichotomous thinking from time to time. In fact, some experts think this pattern may have its origins in human survival â our fight or flight response.
But if thinking in black and white becomes a habit, it can:
- hurt your physical and mental health
- sabotage your career
- cause disruption in your relationships
"
It can keep you from learning
Iâm bad at math. Most math teachers hear this proclamation over and over during the school year.Itâs the product of a success or failure mindset, which is a natural outgrowth of a grading system that defines failure (scores of 0â59) as over half the grading scale.
Some courses even have a simple binary to measure learning: pass or fail. One or the other.
Itâs all too easy to fall into dichotomous thinking about your academic accomplishments."
and more here, quote:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...s-black-white-thinking-in-yourself-and-others
"Polarized, black-and-white thinking is a big problem. It distorts our understanding of realities involving shades of gray, which most human realities are. Binary thinking produces misleading maps of a complicated, nuanced world.
When we face difficult situations, all-or-none thinking blinds us to the possibility of a middle ground, leaving us with only simple, extreme options that rarely work. This type of cognition results in maladaptive emotions and behaviors, an array of mental health diagnoses too numerous to mention, and in its milder and more common forms, all sorts of problems in living and relationships.
Everyone engages in black and white thinking sometimes, because it is quicker and easier than careful consideration of a spectrum of possibilities. Problems arise when we rely on it too much, especially in dealing with emotionally important situations, issues and relationships.
Persistent problems in a particular life area suggest that some kind of dichotomous thinking is going on below the surface, driving the ineffective functioning. This is especially true when extreme emotions and/or behaviors occur, because these are the hallmarks of polarized cognition."
Break
"For example, in responding to conflicts, passive behavior is usually ineffective, and so is its opposite aggressive, while the option in the middle assertive behavior, is most likely to be effective."
Break
"Of course, this paradigm doesnât apply to everythingâit applies to personality-related styles or ways of operating, as opposed to traits that are good by definition, like skills, talents, and capabilities. For example, the type of spectrum we are interested in would not have âsocially skilledâ at one end and âsocially awkwardâ at the other, but it might have âaloofâ at one pole and âclingyâ at the other, because these words describe opposite styles of interpersonal functioning, with âfriendlyâ in the middle."
Then there's a scale and a test to take on the website showing "social dimensions of functioning".
Last edited:
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
I'm so short of friends, (other than the lovely on line ones of course!), that I suspect comments like yours can make me slightly paranoid, ("then I remember what a nice/warm/unique guy I am"!).
palides2021
Well-known Member
- Location
- MidAtlantic, USA
Sorry if my statement made you feel paranoid! I also have experienced over time that my circle of friends has diminished because they've moved away, or I've moved away, and although I keep contact with them over the phone and internet, it's not the same. So maybe I should retract what I said!I'm so short of friends, (other than the lovely on line ones of course!), that I suspect comments like yours can make me slightly paranoid, ("then I remember what a nice/warm/unique guy I am"!).
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
No, don't retract, (I was slightly joking when I made the comment, though there's an element of truth to it, and I'm maybe guilty of "wearing out" the good friends I do have, by demanding too much of them, or too much of their time!).Sorry if my statement made you feel paranoid! I also have experienced over time that my circle of friends has diminished because they've moved away, or I've moved away, and although I keep contact with them over the phone and internet, it's not the same. So maybe I should retract what I said!
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
Churchill on free speech, (a black and white issue?):
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
Some more research on thread topic turned this up:
Quote:
"An informal fallacy where two options or an âeither/orâ situation is presented when more possibilities exist. This fallacy is ostensibly logical, but, on closer evaluation, it becomes clear that it is actually sophistry as there exist more than the two possibilities that were presented."
https://www.intelligentspeculation....ere two,two possibilities that were presented.
Quote:
"An informal fallacy where two options or an âeither/orâ situation is presented when more possibilities exist. This fallacy is ostensibly logical, but, on closer evaluation, it becomes clear that it is actually sophistry as there exist more than the two possibilities that were presented."
https://www.intelligentspeculation....ere two,two possibilities that were presented.