Sleep issues?

[feywon]

A firm believer in bio-individuality since before medical professionals started using the term, i read a wide variety of info on health topics that interest me. And of course even 'experts' disagree on things. But i figure by gathering as much info as i can and assessing what is most applicable to me that i'm doing the best i can to take care of my body and brain. Often we just need a little experimenting to find what works for us.
So how much sleep do you get a night, or in each 24 hours? Some research shows that as long as you get what your body needs (however many hours that is) within each 24 hour cycle there are no ill effects from not getting it all in one chunk in the night.
Do you have problems falling asleep or staying asleep? (i'm somewhat surprised at how many people seem to have such problems. i suffered with insomnia when younger, but learning to meditate changed things to where it takes extremely disturbing events to keep me awake when i want to sleep.)
My biggest problem now is getting my body in a position that is comfortable but no risk of circulation being cut off to hands and doesn't stress my lower back. But once i am all arranged (It usually takes less than 2 minutes, but one of my grandcats will wait till she's sure i'm 'settled' then get into bed with me) and CPAP on i fall asleep very quickly. Sometimes i think the steady low noise of the CPAP has become a 'cue' to my brain that it is time to shut off and i do know that routines can foster falling to sleep when you want.

Please feel free to raise other questions regarding sleep patterns, positions and habits and we can share--while not all solutions work for all a good bit of the time we can adopt or adapt what helps someone else to meet our needs.

 

[MarciKS]

I've had a neurological condition my entire life which messes with my sleep patterns. I have to work certain shifts in order to keep things in balance. If they try to flip flop me from days to nights then I can't function as I should. I turn into a crying zombie.

Sleep aids are really of no use to me. I have to have white noise plus sometimes the noise from TV shows in the background help get me there as well.

 

[Ruth n Jersey]

I have a terrible time getting to sleep and it takes me forever to get comfortable.
My legs ache and I toss and turn.

The room has to be pitch black. I have a double layer of sun blocking drapes on my windows which I close even tighter with clothes pins.

The room has to very very cold. I have an extra ac in our spare bedroom even with the central ac running. The hubby is just the opposite so I sleep in there most nights or both of us would get no sleep at all.

The ac also provides the white noise I need.
I usually take Ambien which I'm sure I'm hooked on by now. I have no side affects from it and if I get a good nights sleep that's all that counts at my age.

 

[feywon]

I've had a neurological condition my entire life which messes with my sleep patterns. I have to work certain shifts in order to keep things in balance. If they try to flip flop me from days to nights then I can't function as I should. I turn into a crying zombie.

Sleep aids are really of no use to me. I have to have white noise plus sometimes the noise from TV shows in the background help get me there as well.

Sorry to hear that.
But even people without a neurological condition have trouble wirh rotating shifts, tho a few rare individuals can handle it. Years ago i read a study where they looked at both accident rates and quality control issues in factories with shifts that rotated monthly or quarterly if i recall correctly. They found that accidents increased amd quality decreased within the first couple of weeks after the flip. That people working 2nd or third (graveyard) shifts year round maintained their quality control and acceptable accident rates better that people who are required to switch back and forth.

People can adjust their cycle of wake/sleep times but andbecome accustomed to it, but changes mean readjustment.

 

[feywon]

I have a terrible time getting to sleep and it takes me forever to get comfortable.
My legs ache and I toss and turn.

The room has to be pitch black. I have a double layer of sun blocking drapes on my windows which I close even tighter with clothes pins.

The room has to very very cold. I have an extra ac in our spare bedroom even with the central ac running. The hubby is just the opposite so I sleep in there most nights or both of us would get no sleep at all.

The ac also provides the white noise I need.
I usually take Ambien which I'm sure I'm hooked on by now. I have no side affects from it and if I get a good nights sleep that's all that counts at my age.

I have heavy curtains as well i still wake up at dawn. Tho when i want a little more sleep in the morning i put on a sleep mask and that helps me sleep a little longer. I like sleeping with room.coler but here in mountains only need fan a few nights a year to get 'cool enough'. Usually even in summer nights are comfortably cool.

 

[Jules]

Sleep is a challenge. Usually I can get to sleep, it staying asleep that‘s the issue.

 

[Verisure]

A firm believer in bio-individuality since before medical professionals started using the term, i read a wide variety of info on health topics that interest me. And of course even 'experts' disagree on things. But i figure by gathering as much info as i can and assessing what is most applicable to me that i'm doing the best i can to take care of my body and brain. .................. My biggest problem now is getting my body in a position that is comfortable but no risk of circulation being cut off to hands and doesn't stress my lower back. But once i am all arranged (It usually takes less than 2 minutes, but one of my grandcats will wait till she's sure i'm 'settled' then get into bed with me) and CPAP on i fall asleep very quickly. Sometimes i think the steady low noise of the CPAP has become a 'cue' to my brain that it is time to shut off and i do know that routines can foster falling to sleep when you want.

Please feel free to raise other questions regarding sleep patterns, positions and habits and we can share--while not all solutions work for all a good bit of the time we can adopt or adapt what helps someone else to meet our needs.

I am very pleased to see this thread of yours and I share many of your woes. My problem is both complicated and intermittent. It is so complicated that I don’t know where to begin or how to relate it.

* CPAP

* Lower back problems

* Problem with night-time position

* Pnigerophobia

* Need for urination

I do not feel that the CPAP is giving me all that it promises and I’m not even sure that it is helping me at all. I seldom wake feeling completely rested. Adding to that is my pnigerophobia that sometimes is so intense that I have to remove the CPAP and fall asleep without it. Unless I am really, really sleepy I need to put on the TV and watch it in order to distract myself from pnigerophobic anxiety as I settle in with the CPAP in place. Once I get into the rhythm I can usually turn off the TV and distract my anxiety by thinking of something pleasant until dozing off.

Some nights I am up each and every hour needing to pee. REALLY needing to pee! This is a bother for obvious reasons but lying down for such short periods ensures that my lower back won’t have settled into an undesirable position and cause me lower back pain. So sleeping only one hour at a time is a good thing?

I sleep on the sofa, not on the bed because the sofa offers me a much better chance of not waking with back pain. Don’t ask me why because I don’t know. However, I just returned from Bulgaria where I had to seep on the hotel bed. I found that if I slept half the night I could get up (with some rather serious pain to my back) and carefully make my way outside and slowly walk off the pain, then back to bed to finish the night, waking up in the morning with only minor pain.

BOTTOM LINE: I’m a wreck until I’ve had a decent amount of sleep and have smoothed out my back pain. I just haven’t mapped it out so that I can predict and avoid the worst of it. I do exercises for my back but I don’t really feel they are helping me either.

How do you decide the best position for you to lie in?

 

[hollydolly]

Sleep is a challenge. Usually I can get to sleep, it staying asleep that‘s the issue.

me too Jules...and also similar to @Ruth n Jersey , I also have to have the room as cool as possible..and blacked out. so I have 2 layers of Blinds to ensure it stays like that because I have a house which gets all the sun...

However I have since retirement had trouble staying asleep, not helped because of long standing lower lumber issues, so I sleep with a small pillow between my knees ... but currently there's been some serious issues within my family, so I'm playing those in my head from the second I move during the night ( despite taking Diazepam before bed, to be used more as a muscle relaxant to prevent my back seizing up ) or when I get up for a pee .... and that's my night finished, since the event occurred I've not had more than 3 hours sleep ....however I thank the Lord, I don't have more serious physical issues as you do @feywon and @Verisure.. , every night must be dreaded by you...

 

[Verisure]

..... taking Diazepam before bed, to be used more as a muscle relaxant to prevent my back seizing up....

Hmmm. Diazepam, you say? Is it recommended by your doctor or by word of mouth? And ... does it work?

 

[hollydolly]

Hmmm. Diazepam, you say? Is it recommended by your doctor or by word of mouth? And ... does it work?

yes it's a muscle relaxant..and anti anxiety med.. but for me it's used to keep the back from seizing during the night. Prescribed by my doctor, and it's the only thing that's ever helped my back ..obviously if you do a days' digging and then expect the meds to stop your back from seizing in the morning, you're not going to get that, but for people with lower lumber issues and herniated discs , like me..it works most of the time, to keep the back from agonising seizures during the night and preventing me from standing up out of bed..

You do have to take it every night though..you can't dip in and out, and docs here are under instruction to only prescribe for a short period of 2 weeks, I've been taking mine for years.. only a low dosage, but it works..

 

[Verisure]

..... You do have to take it every night though..you can't dip in and out, and docs here are under instruction to only prescribe for a short period of 2 weeks, I've been taking mine for years.. only a low dosage, but it works..

It sounds rather potent and probably not for me. Anyway, I doubt very much the docs over here would write out a prescription for it. You can be on your last dying breath and Swedish doctors will tell you, "Take a couple of Alvedon and let me know in a week or two if you're still having trouble."

..... I thank the Lord, I don't have more serious physical issues as you do @feywon and @Verisure.. , every night must be dreaded by you...

That makes me feel much better, thanks.

 

[feywon]

me too Jules...and also similar to @Ruth n Jersey , I also have to have the room as cool as possible..and blacked out. so I have 2 layers of Blinds to ensure it stays like that because I have a house which gets all the sun...

However I have since retirement had trouble staying asleep, not helped because of long standing lower lumber issues, so I sleep with a small pillow between my knees ... but currently there's been some serious issues within my family, so I'm playing those in my head from the second I move during the night ( despite taking Diazepam before bed, to be used more as a muscle relaxant to prevent my back seizing up ) or when I get up for a pee .... and that's my night finished, since the event occurred I've not had more than 3 hours sleep ....however I thank the Lord, I don't have more serious physical issues as you do @feywon and @Verisure.. , every night must be dreaded by you...

Yes i suppose you could look at my sleep apnea as a 'serious sleep issue', but i don't dread going to bed at all. Once i was getting proper treatment, first just oxygen later put on a CPAP it actually made things better. i learned over 3 different sleep studies in last 12 years that my blood oxygen levels drop mostly when i am in REM sleep and i have always been a prolific dreamer. One of my early warning signs was that i was not dreaming as much (because the O2 deprivation would wake me) Soon as i had sufficient O2 the dreams returned. In winter i have to get up to check the fire in woodstove, but summers i often sleep 4-6 hours straight getting up only use bathroom and going quickly back to sleep after. Considering my sleep difficulties in teens and early 20s when insomniac i sleep quite well these days.

Some people say/think they could never adjust to a CPAP, but they've improved even in last decade and there's options of type of mask.

 

[feywon]

BTW, those for whom 'staying' asleep is an issue: Did you know that back in pre-electric days people often went to bed when it got dark. Wake up in middle of night stay up (often reading by candle light) an hour so then feeling tired again would return to bed for another few hours of sleep. As i said above there have been studies that suggest as long you as you get YOUR daily need met in each 24 hrs, you don't have to get the sleep all in one chunk.

Actually going on internet when you can't sleep would not be good idea for me unless i KNEW no way i was sleeping again (sometimes big catastrophes can precipitate that) because engaging in conversations would just wake me up more. But some of the games i have on my kindle, i can play for long stretches if not tired, but when tired they have a hypnotic effect that sends me nodding off and i'd be able to go back to sleep.

 

[Verisure]

...... Actually going on internet when you can't sleep would not be good idea for me unless i KNEW no way i was sleeping again (sometimes big catastrophes can precipitate that) because engaging in conversations would just wake me up more. ....

I use the TV. The only problem is whether the commercial marathon puts me to sleep from boredom ..... or makes me angry and then I'll never get back to sleep.

 

[Jules]

@Verisure, you asked about position of sleeping. I start on my back and very soon am on my stomach. I buy thin pillows specially designed for stomach sleepers. Both my daughters are stomach sleepers too.

Bedtime is 11. My room is dark and cold with the window open; the bed is firm but soft. Layered blankets. Quite neighbourhood.

I listen to podcasts, the more boring the better. They distract me if my mind is on overdrive. The timer is set for 30 minutes, so I know I have drifted off. Then the waking starts 2 - 5 hours later. It’s when it lasts for 3+ hours, that I’m wiped out.

I don’t sleep or rest in the afternoon.

I need 7 hours of sleep, preferably 8.

Lack of sleep is associated with dying earlier, yet doctors are more obsessed with you not taking anything to help it. The Doctors Association obviously don’t appreciate how bad insomnia is.

 

[feywon]

....Lack of sleep is associated with dying earlier, yet doctors are more obsessed with you not taking anything to help it. The Doctors Association obviously don’t appreciate how bad insomnia is.

Most doctors i meet are way too quick to prescribe medication for most everything, because i tend to have anomalous reaction to even OTC meds i'm very cautious. If i desperately need to get to sleep earlier than usual i can take a PM formula of acetaphetamine. Shoot some 'day formula' cold medicines will send me to sleep. Many people self medicate every night. Not good even if OTC stuff. Your body builds up tolerance faster, and most can have side effects with prolonged heavy use, often kidney issues.

Meditation was huge benefit to me. The form i practice is a kind of hypnosis which allows you to give yourself post-hypnotic suggestions every bit as strong as ones given by professional. And when it comes down to it i suspect that 'affirmations' and self-talk done in a meditative state (brain waves in alpha rhythm) amount to the same thing. Not only was able to in all but most extreme situations fall asleep when i wanted to, but i reinforced the 'mental alarm' i'd had all along. The only time i sleep thru a real alarm or hit snooze is if i'm ill, feverish.

 

[Chet]

I am very pleased to see this thread of yours and I share many of your woes. My problem is both complicated and intermittent. It is so complicated that I don’t know where to begin or how to relate it.

* CPAP

* Lower back problems

* Problem with night-time position

* Pnigerophobia

* Need for urination

I do not feel that the CPAP is giving me all that it promises and I’m not even sure that it is helping me at all. I seldom wake feeling completely rested. Adding to that is my pnigerophobia that sometimes is so intense that I have to remove the CPAP and fall asleep without it. Unless I am really, really sleepy I need to put on the TV and watch it in order to distract myself from pnigerophobic anxiety as I settle in with the CPAP in place. Once I get into the rhythm I can usually turn off the TV and distract my anxiety by thinking of something pleasant until dozing off.

Some nights I am up each and every hour needing to pee. REALLY needing to pee! This is a bother for obvious reasons but lying down for such short periods ensures that my lower back won’t have settled into an undesirable position and cause me lower back pain. So sleeping only one hour at a time is a good thing?

I sleep on the sofa, not on the bed because the sofa offers me a much better chance of not waking with back pain. Don’t ask me why because I don’t know. However, I just returned from Bulgaria where I had to seep on the hotel bed. I found that if I slept half the night I could get up (with some rather serious pain to my back) and carefully make my way outside and slowly walk off the pain, then back to bed to finish the night, waking up in the morning with only minor pain.

BOTTOM LINE: I’m a wreck until I’ve had a decent amount of sleep and have smoothed out my back pain. I just haven’t mapped it out so that I can predict and avoid the worst of it. I do exercises for my back but I don’t really feel they are helping me either.

How do you decide the best position for you to lie in?

I was prescribed Doxazosin for peeing and it seems to work. It allows for more complete emptying of the bladder most of the time. It's not perfect but much better. I'll never be a teenager again.

 

[feywon]

I am very pleased to see this thread of yours and I share many of your woes. My problem is both complicated and intermittent. It is so complicated that I don’t know where to begin or how to relate it.

* CPAP

* Lower back problems

* Problem with night-time position

* Pnigerophobia

* Need for urination

I do not feel that the CPAP is giving me all that it promises and I’m not even sure that it is helping me at all. I seldom wake feeling completely rested. Adding to that is my pnigerophobia that sometimes is so intense that I have to remove the CPAP and fall asleep without it. Unless I am really, really sleepy I need to put on the TV and watch it in order to distract myself from pnigerophobic anxiety as I settle in with the CPAP in place. Once I get into the rhythm I can usually turn off the TV and distract my anxiety by thinking of something pleasant until dozing off.

Some nights I am up each and every hour needing to pee. REALLY needing to pee! This is a bother for obvious reasons but lying down for such short periods ensures that my lower back won’t have settled into an undesirable position and cause me lower back pain. So sleeping only one hour at a time is a good thing?

I sleep on the sofa, not on the bed because the sofa offers me a much better chance of not waking with back pain. Don’t ask me why because I don’t know. However, I just returned from Bulgaria where I had to seep on the hotel bed. I found that if I slept half the night I could get up (with some rather serious pain to my back) and carefully make my way outside and slowly walk off the pain, then back to bed to finish the night, waking up in the morning with only minor pain.

BOTTOM LINE: I’m a wreck until I’ve had a decent amount of sleep and have smoothed out my back pain. I just haven’t mapped it out so that I can predict and avoid the worst of it. I do exercises for my back but I don’t really feel they are helping me either.

How do you decide the best position for you to lie in?

Regarding the CPAP issue, is your a mask one that covers just mouth and nose? Talk to your provider about options, talk to them about your issues. The only time i've removed mine in sleep is if power glitched. Mine is designed so i can detach the hose without removing and then having to replace the mask when i have to get up in the night for any reason. (Took the Dogs some time to get used to it, LOL). i think there is a system that's a full face mask with which you don't feel pressure right around nose and mouth.

Regarding your question at the end. i used trial and error...different times in my life different positions were better (like during pregnancies, after surgeries, etc). What i always did was find a comfortable position that i could lie comfortably in for however long it took it me to fall asleep. As i aged it was necessary to also note which positions resulted in least amount of morning stiffness (or sometimes outright numbness in body parts, especially hands). Keep written notes (on computer or other device over time as you try various positions till you find the one that gives you optimal rest and minimal discomfort.

 

[Verisure]

@Verisure, you asked about position of sleeping. I start on my back and very soon am on my stomach. I buy thin pillows specially designed for stomach sleepers. Both my daughters are stomach sleepers too.

Bedtime is 11. My room is dark and cold with the window open; the bed is firm but soft. Layered blankets. Quite neighbourhood.

I listen to podcasts, the more boring the better. They distract me if my mind is on overdrive. The timer is set for 30 minutes, so I know I have drifted off. Then the waking starts 2 - 5 hours later. It’s when it lasts for 3+ hours, that I’m wiped out.

I don’t sleep or rest in the afternoon.

I need 7 hours of sleep, preferably 8.

Lack of sleep is associated with dying earlier, yet doctors are more obsessed with you not taking anything to help it. The Doctors Association obviously don’t appreciate how bad insomnia is.

Wow! The only time I lie on my stomach is to remedy a really serious backache (to stretch the muscles) or at the Thai massage. I definitely never sleep that way. I like your idea with the pillows but I haven't yet figured out where to place them on the mattress to replicate the sofa where I normally sleep with a minimum of backache. There has to be a way to figure that out but I haven't succeeded yet. That's the issue. It is possible for me to get a good night's sleep on the sofa if I don't wake up every hour or so but it doesn't work on my mattress at all. I must find out what it is exactly that makes the sofa so good and then maybe I can arrange the mattress in a similar way. That would be great. I miss waking up with my dear wife lying next to me.

My bedtime is usually 9 PM to 4 AM but if I have trouble I take naps anytime during the day. If I awake several times during the night due to the need to pee (for example) then I won't get a backache ..... just no real sleep.

Yes, 7 or 8 hours of "real sleep" would be divine!

If doctors cannot understand that insomnia is a serious thing then maybe they are unaware that sleep deprivation is one of the standard tactics of torture.

 

[Verisure]

I was prescribed Doxazosin for peeing and it seems to work. It allows for more complete emptying of the bladder most of the time. It's not perfect but much better. I'll never be a teenager again.

I'll have to look up Doxazosin and see if it might something for me. When I was younger, ("so much younger than today") I had a kidney infection that made me pee constantly. I remember the doctor gave me some tablets that made my pee turn orange and after that, I was fine again. I wonder if it's a kidney infection that's troubling me now?

 

[Verisure]

Regarding the CPAP issue, is your a mask one that covers just mouth and nose? Talk to your provider about options, talk to them about your issues. The only time i've removed mine in sleep is if power glitched. Mine is designed so i can detach the hose without removing and then having to replace the mask when i have to get up in the night for any reason. (Took the Dogs some time to get used to it, LOL). i think there is a system that's a full face mask with which you don't feel pressure right around nose and mouth.

Regarding your question at the end. i used trial and error...different times in my life different positions were better (like during pregnancies, after surgeries, etc). What i always did was find a comfortable position that i could lie comfortably in for however long it took it me to fall asleep. As i aged it was necessary to also note which positions resulted in least amount of morning stiffness (or sometimes outright numbness in body parts, especially hands). Keep written notes (on computer or other device over time as you try various positions till you find the one that gives you optimal rest and minimal discomfort.

Because of my pnigerophobia I have opted for the nose "mask/pillows" on my CPAP. The nose & mouth mask would freak me out - absolutely! There is no way in hell I can use that!

I'm not sure but I think the sofa affords better sleep WITHOUT BACK PAIN because of the confinement. You just sort of roll against the back part of the sofa and there is nowhere else to go. Or maybe it's the firmness (whatever). I just don't know.

 

[Murrmurr]

Wow! The only time I lie on my stomach is to remedy a really serious backache (to stretch the muscles) or at the Thai massage. I definitely never sleep that way. I like your idea with the pillows but I haven't yet figured out where to place them on the mattress to replicate the sofa where I normally sleep with a minimum of backache. There has to be a way to figure that out but I haven't succeeded yet. That's the issue. It is possible for me to get a good night's sleep on the sofa if I don't wake up every hour or so but it doesn't work on my mattress at all. I must find out what it is exactly that makes the sofa so good and then maybe I can arrange the mattress in a similar way. That would be great. I miss waking up with my dear wife lying next to me.

My bedtime is usually 9 PM to 4 AM but if I have trouble I take naps anytime during the day. If I awake several times during the night due to the need to pee (for example) then I won't get a backache ..... just no real sleep.

Yes, 7 or 8 hours of "real sleep" would be divine!

If doctors cannot understand that insomnia is a serious thing then maybe they are unaware that sleep deprivation is one of the standard tactics of torture.

Couch cushions are usually filled with foam. Have you tried a foam mattress?

As for pillows, I sleep (on my side) hugging one large, firm pillow to my chest to keep my shoulders apart (to breath better) and a small firm pillow between my knees to keep my hips and lower back aligned. My human pillow, the Missus, keeps my backside all toasty.

 

[feywon]

Because of my pnigerophobia I have opted for the nose "mask/pillows" on my CPAP. The nose & mouth mask would freak me out - absolutely! There is no way in hell I can use that!

I'm not sure but I think the sofa affords better sleep WITHOUT BACK PAIN because of the confinement. You just sort of roll against the back part of the sofa and there is nowhere else to go. Or maybe it's the firmness (whatever). I just don't know.

My nose/mouth area mask has a soft cushiony rubber edging so gives some with movement but doesn't leak cause it conforms to contours of cheeks, but sometimes--usually in summer the rubbery texture becomes and issue. Usally by morning i am antsy to remove it.

A while back i injured the the bridge of my nose and put a bandaid over i and the mask felt more comfortable that night. But i've also seen elasticized soft mask covers that look like kind of like hair scrunches but also like they'd securely cover the rubber edge. i'm going to order some (they come in sets of two--which would be good because unlike the parts of CPAP they'd likely take longer to dry when washed so i'd still have one to use while other drying.

 

[J-Kat]

I used to have lower back pain when I got up in the mornings but changing my mattress helped with that. I seldom have any back problems now. I use a white noise machine, keep a small fan on at night and the A/C set so the room is cool. I take CBO/Melatonin gummies and read for a while to settle my mind before turning out the lights. Now if I didn't have to get up every three hours or so to pee I would likely sleep all night without interruption. The gummies have also really helped in my getting back to sleep which used to be a problem. I have been bothered by heartburn at night recently even though I take medication for it daily. I am considering an adjustable base for the bed so I can elevate my head somewhat to help with that. As for sleeping late the dog insists on getting up at daylight though I can sometimes get her to wait another 30 minutes or so.

 

[Jules]

The other thing I take to bed is a microwaved heating bag filled with grain. In the winter it’s to warm my freezing feet and then I put it on my back. Unless it’s a really hot night, I warm it slightly and in the middle of the night I will put it on my lower back for the weight. Not sure if it keeps my back in place or is just comforting.