Some won't ever understand the stigmatization of African Americans

AprilT

AprilT

Well-known Member
Location
A galaxy far far away
I was posting about postal workers while collecting silly videos of their less than savory antice I happened on this video which just gave me serious stomach aches. I just don't think many people will every understand how this kind of thing affects generations of people who see these things happen time and time again, no matter what one is doing or not doing we can always make up in our minds excuses for the behaviors of those in authority to act a certain way toward a people but it's sickening and hurtful to the core. Some don't get it because they don't live it don't understand how it feels to be stigmatized just for the hue of their skin from the day they are born. I have to say, there are times when I understand and sympathize with the police, I realize they have a hard job, but, I've also seen and experienced both sides of when what is happening is based on prejudices. This hurt me to the core. I expect some not to understand, but, I just had to purge this feeling I was having after seeing the video, I've seen many similar, but, today for some reason, this just made me post it.


 

Obviously I've never experienced what 'you and yours' have experienced, but I can fully imagine the fear and anger and frustration.....it's just not fair and it is so cruel!
 

I won't ever completely understand April, because I'm not black. But, I know that things like this take place all the time, not only in NY, but all over the US. I find it particularly disgusting when those in authority, like the police, use the power behind their badge to act out their racist tendencies.

Of course not all cops are that way, there are many good officers on the force, but the ones who do things like this must be stopped, with video recordings these days, steps are being taken even if baby steps. It's long overdue, that's for sure! My heart goes out to you, having grown up and lived around folks with all different racial and ethnic backgrounds, I know your feelings come from a true place...hugs.
 
Thank you all, I'm not angry at all people who work in this industry, I've said before, I've actually worked behind the scenes with people on the force, whom I've had great friendships co-worker relationships with in past years and I have family who wear the uniform, just sometimes seeing these things wears me down emotionally more than I care to let it or admit it.
 
April, seeing these incidents pains me to no end, I am sorry for the impact that it has on you. If wishes could come true, I would wish that racial violence would just no longer happen.

It's not the police, it's the person behind the badge...
 
tnthomas said:
April, seeing these incidents pains me to no end, I am sorry for the impact that it has on you. If wishes could come true, I would wish that racial violence would just no longer happen.

It's not the police, it's the person behind the badge...
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I know this is true, but it's also a particular environment in any given place that sometimes allows the behaviors to persist. I don't want this to be about the police so much as it is that some just don't understand how deeply felt the pain of the prejudices regardless where they come from can affect individuals. I've lived most of my life letting most of these things roll off my shoulder, but the internet has opened a whole new world of it that gets thrown in my face in ways I didn't have to witness each and every day instead of just experiences, off the net, in real life only occasionally or rarely. The net experience of it has been a whole new ballgame. I do my best to tune most of it out but it gets more and more difficult sometimes. I didn't go looking for that video, I guess, in a way, it served me right to find it for poking fun at the postal workers. :sentimental:
 
AprilT said:
I know this is true, but it's also a particular environment in any given place that sometimes allows the behaviors to persist. I don't want this to be about the police so much as it is that some just don't understand how deeply felt the pain of the prejudices regardless where they come from can affect individuals. I've lived most of my life letting most of these things roll off my shoulder, but the internet has opened a whole new world of it that gets thrown in my face in ways I didn't have to witness each and every day instead of just experiences, off the net, in real life only occasionally or rarely. The net experience of it has been a whole new ballgame. I do my best to tune most of it out but it gets more and more difficult sometimes. I didn't go looking for that video, I guess, in a way, it served me right to find it for poking fun at the postal workers. :sentimental:
Click to expand...
:bighug:
 
There are some things, as you say, that some people will never understand.

Yet many people can trust that there is some things that are real, that exist, that other people are subject to. I think part of "respect" is accepting that just because one doesn't understand another person's issues one can understand that they have those issues to deal with and that it is very very hard to do so. One can honor them for how they are dealing with those issues, how they react to them, how they cope and survive and thrive in the face of them.

It would be laughable for me to say, here, that as a woman I deal with issues and attitudes and behaviors a man would never understand.

But I think that if one can't actually walk a mile in another person's shoes, one can accept that we all have shoes, and can pay more attention to how one's own shoes fit, and where they rub corns, and cause one to trip but hopefully not fall.
 
The real question should be, "where do we go from here?" What can we do about it? I grew up on the streets, you will have fight for any/everything you get; I am white. I have been harassed by the cops; tis not always racial; a lot of times it is over worked ,under paid, under trained officers who do not really care. The aforementioned incident could have just as well happened to a white / Hispanic/ Asian person; tis based on fear factor to prevent the victim from turning them in. There is discrimination, and minorities do not always get treated fairly, but everything is not racial. There does need to be better living conditions/ social programs, equal justice, the same justice for all. Black lives matter, all lives matter.
 
And there you have it the dismisiness; we all know the dozens of of possibilities of altinate situations where other people go through harassment, I myself have posted such videos and information, I also made it clear this isn't about the police. No surprise that what I feel would be reduced to anecdotal situations, like I said some wouldn't understand as you absolutely haven't a real clue of a day in the life in the skin. Easy to trivialize what I felt. I've never lived my life thinking everything was about race that wasn't how I was raised it has only been in recent years that my eyes have been more opened to see that other people see my color first more often than not and place me in a box. I've learned this from places like this as much as anywhere else. One only needs to read words like the blacks and those people their community so many times to get it it. Of course I know this doesn't relate to all, but I heard enough to get the message.

BTW that last little bit "All lives matters" you having to say that to me speaks volumes. That was quite insulting. What is it some people don't get or are so bothered by the fact that when people say black lives matter this just means black lives matter too just like everyone else not only, but also.
 
AprilT said:
And there you have it the dismisiness; we all know the dozens of of possibilities of altinate situations where other people go through harassment, I myself have posted such videos and information, I also made it clear this isn't about the police. No surprise that what I feel would be reduced to anecdotal situations, like I said some wouldn't understand as you absolutely haven't a real clue of a day in the life in the skin. Easy to trivialize what I felt. I've never lived my life thinking everything was about race that wasn't how I was raised it has only been in recent years that my eyes have been more opened to see that other people see my color first more often than not and place me in a box. I've learned this from places like this as much as anywhere else. One only needs to read words like the blacks and those people their community so many times to get it it. Of course I know this doesn't relate to all, but I heard enough to get the message.

BTW that last little bit "All lives matters" you having to say that to me speaks volumes. That was quite insulting. What is it some people don't get or are so bothered by the fact that when people say black lives matter this just means black lives matter too just like everyone else not only, but also.
Click to expand...

I get annoyed at how often people will add on '...all lives matter'. Do they think what is meant by Black Lives Matter is that only Black lives matter??

I can never say I understand because I'm white. No one can ever truly understand what it is like to be in the shoes of someone unlike ourselves, no matter how hard we try.

When we lived in Uganda we got into discussions on racism and had to explain it because, of course, someone in Uganda has never experienced it. They knew about prejudice between tribes throughout the country - different languages, somewhat different in culture, etc. I hated having to explain US racism to them and what it meant. They were totally shocked and horrified, as well they should have been.
 
I think racism and the inability to recognize it is the major obsteticals holding our country back....it has been made all too clear with the election of Barack Obama.

As others have said.....I can't possibly fully understand how you feel, April, but I
do recognize the unfairness.
 
April, Canada has also had it's own brush with the kind of racism that you're talking about here. I found a website called Black History Canada and it opens with this:

'For example, it was “understood” that Black people attending a movie in New Glasgow, Nova Scotia should not sit on the main floor level. It was reserved for Whites only, so to ensure that would be the case, different rates were charged for tickets. Visiting New Glasgow on business, African-Canadian Viola Desmond’s car developed problems and needed repair. To pass time, she bought a movie ticket and sat on the main floor since she had accidentally left her glasses in her car. She was ordered to leave the theatre, because she had paid the “*****” rate but was sitting on the main floor. Although she offered to pay the difference, she was arrested, not allowed to consult a lawyer and fined. Her case, years before American Rosa Parks’ case, sparked an end to Nova Scotian segregation....'

Viola Davis was one of the possible women who might be on new Canadian bills.

Some of the pages on the link are not connecting properly but one that did (http://www.lsuc.on.ca/media/oct04_c2bbackhousespeech.pdf) is discussing black people who became lawyers in early Canada. The following was written about a woman named Clara Martin, who managed, in 1891 to force her way through and into law practise: '.....* Despite achieving so much on behalf of women, Clara Brett Martin participatedin acts of anti-Semitism along with many other members of the profession. There isevidence that she lobbied the Attorney General to have restrictions placed on those shereferred to as “foreign Jewish realtors.” Her acts underscore the complexity ofdiscrimination and remind us that proponents of equality do not always get it right...'

As I read the above, I'm reminded too that one of the great's in the struggle for justice and fairness and peace, Mahatma Gandi, is also known historically as a racist against black people in South Africa. I think the point that I'm trying to make is that throughout history, racism in one form or another and against a variety of groups (blacks, Jews, Romany gypsies, Irish, Japanese....) has existed. But by golly, you'd think that by now, we'd finally be smart enough to realize that without the 'skin' to identify us (makes me think of that human body exhibition:playful:) we're all the same basically. We all have hearts and bones and blood vessels and muscles and 'souls' and love's and joys and fears and sorrows.....and yet even today, so many are willing to see only the outside. Terribly sad.

But I also think that is why it is so important to be involved in discussions like this and to listen to the words of those who've lived these experiences and NOT take those words as personal attacks against us but instead to try to imagine how people like you April, must feel. For example, my real awakening to a better understanding came when a First Nations chief was involved in a hunger strike that was supposed to get our Federal governments attention a few years ago. Listening to the anger against her and to the angry support for her and for her cause, finally made me curious enough to actually look at some of the FN claims about how their lives are here in Canada and it was reading about their children's rotten education standards that finally got through to me. I finally began to think, 'if my kids were going to those kinds of schools, would I feel that it was fair or right?' I was finally beginning to understand the frustration and yes, the hostility of many of our FN's people.






http://www.blackhistorycanada.ca/topic.php?id=146&themeid=5
 
I thank those of you who hear my voice and recognize that I speak from a place of feeling a deep hurt b something experienced blatantly and subtly too frequently. I grew up in a very diverse environment, my friends, dating partners people I broke bread with, even besties who I shared a bed with in various situations with wre always a mixed bag. I never judged my friends or acquaintances based on their ethnicity, they were just people I liked or loved. I admit even many times I might at times thought some people were to quick to blame their circumstances on their skin color and there can absolutely be occasions where that might be true but, the vast majority of times what I ve experienced in my layered years has taught me how easy it was for me to not see the truth of the situation as I wasn't or hadn't experienced it as others had because I lived in a bubble partly created by my parents and my own delutions but also having in earlier times having been granted the privilege of being exposed to some wonderful people, At least in things related to race. As far as I am concerned all people are my people regardless of skin color, it just saddens me we find so many reasons to hate one another for the simple purpose to feel superior and if not for skn hue we would find another reason to annihilate each other
 
Debby said:
April, Canada has also had it's own brush with the kind of racism that you're talking about here. I found a website called Black History Canada and it opens with this:

'For example, it was “understood” that Black people attending a movie in New Glasgow, Nova Scotia should not sit on the main floor level. It was reserved for Whites only, so to ensure that would be the case, different rates were charged for tickets. Visiting New Glasgow on business, African-Canadian Viola Desmond’s car developed problems and needed repair. To pass time, she bought a movie ticket and sat on the main floor since she had accidentally left her glasses in her car. She was ordered to leave the theatre, because she had paid the “*****” rate but was sitting on the main floor. Although she offered to pay the difference, she was arrested, not allowed to consult a lawyer and fined. Her case, years before American Rosa Parks’ case, sparked an end to Nova Scotian segregation....'

Viola Davis was one of the possible women who might be on new Canadian bills.

Some of the pages on the link are not connecting properly but one that did (http://www.lsuc.on.ca/media/oct04_c2bbackhousespeech.pdf) is discussing black people who became lawyers in early Canada. The following was written about a woman named Clara Martin, who managed, in 1891 to force her way through and into law practise: '.....* Despite achieving so much on behalf of women, Clara Brett Martin participatedin acts of anti-Semitism along with many other members of the profession. There isevidence that she lobbied the Attorney General to have restrictions placed on those shereferred to as “foreign Jewish realtors.” Her acts underscore the complexity ofdiscrimination and remind us that proponents of equality do not always get it right...'

As I read the above, I'm reminded too that one of the great's in the struggle for justice and fairness and peace, Mahatma Gandi, is also known historically as a racist against black people in South Africa. I think the point that I'm trying to make is that throughout history, racism in one form or another and against a variety of groups (blacks, Jews, Romany gypsies, Irish, Japanese....) has existed. But by golly, you'd think that by now, we'd finally be smart enough to realize that without the 'skin' to identify us (makes me think of that human body exhibition:playful:) we're all the same basically. We all have hearts and bones and blood vessels and muscles and 'souls' and love's and joys and fears and sorrows.....and yet even today, so many are willing to see only the outside. Terribly sad.

But I also think that is why it is so important to be involved in discussions like this and to listen to the words of those who've lived these experiences and NOT take those words as personal attacks against us but instead to try to imagine how people like you April, must feel. For example, my real awakening to a better understanding came when a First Nations chief was involved in a hunger strike that was supposed to get our Federal governments attention a few years ago. Listening to the anger against her and to the angry support for her and for her cause, finally made me curious enough to actually look at some of the FN claims about how their lives are here in Canada and it was reading about their children's rotten education standards that finally got through to me. I finally began to think, 'if my kids were going to those kinds of schools, would I feel that it was fair or right?' I was finally beginning to understand the frustration and yes, the hostility of many of our FN's people.






http://www.blackhistorycanada.ca/topic.php?id=146&themeid=5
Click to expand...



Thank you Debbie for that information. I was aware of the history of how Gandhi felt and it was eye opening when I first read about it. There was a lot of ignorance and hatred between Africans and his people so when I delved more, for me there was no real surprise plus he was just a human being no different from many others who don't always walk the talk 100% though often believe they do as does their follows doesn't dismiss a lot of the good he did for some thought. As I said he was only human,

I am greatly aware of racial hatred, tribal, religious,self hatred the many other forms of hatred that exist throughout the world. I don't think it will ever go away completely, but as you said it is beneficial that we have discussions and at least hear how people are affected. There's been progress in the world, but there are those who live to see things go backwards a d they are working doubly hard at it. 5hose who stay silent have no idea just how happy that makes them.
 
AprilT said:
And there you have it the dismisiness; we all know the dozens of of possibilities of altinate situations where other people go through harassment, I myself have posted such videos and information, I also made it clear this isn't about the police. No surprise that what I feel would be reduced to anecdotal situations, like I said some wouldn't understand as you absolutely haven't a real clue of a day in the life in the skin. Easy to trivialize what I felt. I've never lived my life thinking everything was about race that wasn't how I was raised it has only been in recent years that my eyes have been more opened to see that other people see my color first more often than not and place me in a box. I've learned this from places like this as much as anywhere else. One only needs to read words like the blacks and those people their community so many times to get it it. Of course I know this doesn't relate to all, but I heard enough to get the message.

BTW that last little bit "All lives matters" you having to say that to me speaks volumes. That was quite insulting. What is it some people don't get or are so bothered by the fact that when people say black lives matter this just means black lives matter too just like everyone else not only, but also.
Click to expand...

Sorry, thought this was a discussion thread. Didn't realize it was just a soapbox for your posts.
 
April, I shall follow suit. I am too distressed over the recent happenings around my vets to deal with too much negativity. Time to concentrate on the love and warmth in my life. Empaths need it for balance.
 
AprilT said:
And there you have it the dismisiness; we all know the dozens of of possibilities of altinate situations where other people go through harassment, I myself have posted such videos and information, I also made it clear this isn't about the police. No surprise that what I feel would be reduced to anecdotal situations, like I said some wouldn't understand as you absolutely haven't a real clue of a day in the life in the skin. Easy to trivialize what I felt. I've never lived my life thinking everything was about race that wasn't how I was raised it has only been in recent years that my eyes have been more opened to see that other people see my color first more often than not and place me in a box. I've learned this from places like this as much as anywhere else. One only needs to read words like the blacks and those people their community so many times to get it it. Of course I know this doesn't relate to all, but I heard enough to get the message.




BTW that last little bit "All lives matters" you having to say that to me speaks volumes. That was quite insulting. What is it some people don't get or are so bothered by the fact that when people say black lives matter this just means black lives matter too just like everyone else not only, but also.
Click to expand...




One may call it "dismissiveness", one may claim to have been "insulted", playing always the victim, choosing to remain the victim. All life, lifestyle/ religions matter, until we see our selves as one, the issues will remain. Whilst there have been great strides in racial/social acceptance, we still have far to go, but no matter the progress, one choosing to be a "victim" will always remain the "victim. " Many of my brothers will say the "victim" mentality is a defeatist mentality and will never further the cause for neither themselves or their "cause." We can banter this back and forth, but the facts will not change. There appears the need for you to be insulted to further YOUR personal cause. I will continue to read your post in the event you happen to say something. Peace my friend.
 
senile1 said:
One may call it "dismissiveness", one may claim to have been "insulted", playing always the victim, choosing to remain the victim. All life, lifestyle/ religions matter, until we see our selves as one, the issues will remain. Whilst there have been great strides in racial/social acceptance, we still have far to go, but no matter the progress, one choosing to be a "victim" will always remain the "victim. " Many of my brothers will say the "victim" mentality is a defeatist mentality and will never further the cause for neither themselves or their "cause." We can banter this back and forth, but the facts will not change. There appears the need for you to be insulted to further YOUR personal cause. I will continue to read your post in the event you happen to say something. Peace my friend.
Click to expand...

Alright, see it as you choose to with eyes and mind closed it tells me you listen more as the victim for you can't see beyond feeling insulted yourself. That's OK, you have plenty of company. A victim I've never lived my life in such a way nor have those I choose to associate with, but it doesn't stop people from trying to geuse words such as yours to label those of us who speak out against certain acts as being such. Just one more method to try to silence the voices of truth that some refuse to acknowledge. Please don't feel obligated to read my post I do think you've made your mind up about the matter long ago. I didn't post this thread to change minds I posted to get some feelings I was struggling with off my chest, but, it appears I'm being told my feeling s are invalid, that I take issue with. How is it having feelings playing victim is beyond me. I've never let any pains stop me from having sucesses in life and I've encountered pains of such that would have put many down long before they reached their teens, so yes labeling me victim jus one more insult. Sweetness, but doesn't mean I'm hurting from it. :D
 

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