Sonya Massey Shooting in the news today

What we say here is unimportant. Everyone knows we're just a bunch of old gossips. On the other hand, if he didn't want to be talked about, he shouldn't have shot the lady, right?
It really goes beyond gossiping. Law enforcement officers that killed usually found themselves being treated miserably by their fellow inmates. It got to be so bad that later policemen were put into their own cell unit and kept away from the general population.

Sean Grayson, who has been charged with first degree murder may end up with the same fate. When I first saw the video, my first reaction was, Why didn't he just taser her? If you have ever been hit with 50,000 volts, you would know that you couldn't even move and would most likely drop to at least your knees. That's all it would have taken to bring this to an end.
 

When I first saw the video, my first reaction was, Why didn't he just taser her? If you have ever been hit with 50,000 volts, you would know that you couldn't even move and would most likely drop to at least your knees. That's all it would have taken to bring this to an end.
I thought that at first, too... but then immediately it was "but wait, there wasn't a threat." I have a feeling he had no idea his partner had the body cam turned on. Because Grayson didn't turn his on until after he killed her.

If she had actually been close enough to hit him with scalding water, sure... taser. She's pointing a gun? Well then this wouldn't even be an issue. I haven't said anything in this thread until now because seeing that video has seriously disturbed me... and even more when I realized if the partner hadn't turned the cam on, we'd be hearing the "self-inflicted" that Grayson tried to claim and we wouldn't know Sonya's name. 🥺
 
This lawsuit is based on a violation of a person’s civil rights? I don’t understand what the phrase “a failure to train properly” means . Can you explain it? Does it mean the deputy was trained civil rights laws properly?
It comes under the heading called a Monell claim. This may help explain, I probably was not too clear.

Read the whole Syllabus:

But (b), that explains better.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/489/378/
 
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I would have thought you would have heard or read this during your lifetime. Cops are trained to stop the threat. If the person the cop is attempting to take down has a gun and is shooting at the officer, we are trained to shoot to hit the center mass of the body. If the culprit only has a knife, we shoot to incapacitate him or her.

Up to about the year 2000, we were trained to stop the threat by shooting to kill. If the culprit has a gun and you shoot to only maimed your person with the gun and you begin to walk up to him, he could easily roll over and shoot you.
No I had no idea. But then this lady did not not have a gun.
 
It comes under the heading called a Monell claim. This may help explain, I probably was not too clear.

Read the whole Syllabus:

But (b), that explains better.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/489/378/
While I was reading the sylllabus, it made me more aware why we have D.A.’s. Those things are written by lawyers for lawyers. No normal or common person should be expected to understand the reading or the reasoning behind the ruling. The first few lines kind of pretty much explained the reasoning behind the lawsuit.

In the Oklahoma City lawsuit, I had to wonder how do the courts expect law officers to be able to define or even apply the acts of law that are mentioned in the suit? This is the reason why law enforcement only act as they are trained. Law enforcement has the authority to arrest, but the D.A.’s make the decision as to whether to prosecute or not. Not everything in law is black and white.

This is why law enforcement officials go by the theory that to know the law is important, but to be able to interpret the law is more important. Officers will run into a case where they will have to present their evidence to the D.A. and they make the decision whether to prosecute (file charges) or not.

I think this U.S. where juries tend to mess up when reaching a verdict. I read a case yesterday where the defendant’s plea was not guilty by reason of insanity. His counsel presented 6 different psychiatrists that examined his client and they all agreed that he suffered from a mental illness, which I forget at the moment. However, on cross examination, the Prosecutor used language that I didn’t completely understand.

When it came time for the jury to announce their verdict, they found the defendant guilty. After the trial, the reporter asked the foreperson how they reached their verdict of not guilty since all of the psychiatrists agreed that the defendant did suffer from mental illness. The foreperson stated that the jury members didn’t think the mental illness was enough to make them believe that the defendant wasn’t guilty because he suffered from a mental illness because when the prosecutor asked the psychiatrists if they thought his illness affected his actions at the time he committed the assault, they were split, 3-3.

The case went to the Superior Court in PA and the verdict was overturned and sent back to he state court for retrial. The Superior Court called the verdict biased because the jury based their verdict on a single fact. Does that make sense?
 
As I understand the decision, the failure to train properly, etc. only applies if the Municipality is to be named as a defendant. The George Floyd wrongful death suit included a Monell claim. The Jayland Walker lawsuit also had a Monell claim. It is somewhat confusing from a Jurisprudence perspective, yes. You could sue an officer in his personal and official capacity also a police department itself and Monell does not have to be a claim???

Therein lies the Judicially created doctrine of QI. The actions of a reasonably prudent officer in executing his training are shielded from legal liability. In the case of this thread, it is quite obvious there is none.

Oh, I might add, as a legal point, you can not Sue the State itself under 1983, as the State is not a "Person" for 1983 purposes. The law is sometimes AWOL.
 
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As I understand the decision, the failure to train properly, etc. only applies if the Municipality is to be named as a defendant. The George Floyd wrongful death suit included a Monell claim. The Jayland Walker lawsuit also had a Monell claim. It is somewhat confusing from a Jurisprudence perspective, yes. You could sue an officer in his personal and official capacity also a police department itself and Monell does not have to be a claim???

Therein lies the Judicially created doctrine of QI. The actions of a reasonably prudent officer in executing his training are shielded from legal liability. In the case of this thread, it is quite obvious there is none.

Oh, I might add, as a legal point, you can not Sue the State itself under 1983, as the State is not a "Person" for 1983 purposes. The law is sometimes AWOL.
I love this forum , I learn so much from people.....
 
As I understand the decision, the failure to train properly, etc. only applies if the Municipality is to be named as a defendant. The George Floyd wrongful death suit included a Monell claim. The Jayland Walker lawsuit also had a Monell claim. It is somewhat confusing from a Jurisprudence perspective, yes. You could sue an officer in his personal and official capacity also a police department itself and Monell does not have to be a claim???

Therein lies the Judicially created doctrine of QI. The actions of a reasonably prudent officer in executing his training are shielded from legal liability. In the case of this thread, it is quite obvious there is none.

Oh, I might add, as a legal point, you can not Sue the State itself under 1983, as the State is not a "Person" for 1983 purposes. The law is sometimes AWOL.
I knew about the lack of ability to sue a state as it is stated in the Constitution under the 11th Amendment.

It may not have to be a claim, but the municipality is going to pay if they lose in court. The cops sure aren't going to pay out of their pocket. I would think this is why states take out insurance policies. I also think the language is ambiguous to say the least. Thus, their jurisprudence needs brushing up on.

Thanks for the explanations.
 
..and in this case, I'm sure you've watched the video .. the woman was not in any way a threat to him enough for him to shoot her in the face..

Upstanding officers like @911 are a dying breed..certainly in this country anyway...
Thank you, Holly, but I could probably round up several people that would disagree with you. Of course two-thirds of them are probably sitting in prison.
 
This idea that something like this is due to "lack of training" is ludicrous. Sure, officers do need to be properly trained for such situations but even someone with zero training should know enough not to commit murder which is what this was.
 


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