Stand by your principles are you a forgive and forget type of person or not

Chet said:
It seems your daughter's biological father was simply a biological father to her and nothing more, so I can understand her position.
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yes , well he was a father to her until she was 8 years old, and then a part-time father until she was 16.. but he never paid a penny maintenance after he left when she was 8, or rather, I threw him out .. .. To afford everything for her so she wouldn't stand out in a crowd as someone from a poor household and to ensure she got everything her peers got including school trips and holidays, I worked 7 part-time jobs back to back for years..slotted in around her school hours, so I could be at home when she was.... and then when she was a young teen I went to work full time, with a second job at weekends.. ..ex Husband lied to the court when I took him back to court for non-payment of child support, told them he pays me cash every Friday, and they believed him.. so we never got a penny..
 

Rather than waste energy on hatred, I was totally indifferent to my mother. In fact, I was in her bedroom while paramedics were trying to revive her, with their monitor in front of me. They did what they were required to do before pronouncing her - they did CPR, & injected adrenaline into the heart. The monitor showed heartbeats only while they worked; every time they stopped, it was flat lined. My reaction was the same as if I was watching a boring TV show. It would have been quite different if she was a decent person.
By contrast, it took months for me to cope with my Lab's death.
It's how you treat people while you're alive that determines how people think of you after you're gone.
 
Hollydolly wrote:
"oh she did feel that in her teens and probably her 20's... but not now in her mid 40's .. she's explained this to me.. she is highly intelligent completely in touch with her feelings, and as she explained.. she feels nothing for him, because he simply doesn't exist to her!"
Murrmurr said:
Personally, I can relate to your daughter. And you're right, it's not going to change.
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"Interesting"! :sneaky::whistle:
 
hollydolly said:
yes , well he was a father to her until she was 8 years old, and then a part-time father until she was 16.. but he never paid a penny maintenance after he left when she was 8, or rather, I threw him out .. .. To afford everything for her so she wouldn't stand out in a crowd as someone from a poor household and to ensure she got everything her peers got including school trips and holidays, I worked 7 part-time jobs back to back for years..slotted in around her school hours, so I could be at home when she was.... and then when she was a young teen I went to work full time, with a second job at weekends.. ..ex Husband lied to the court when I took him back to court for non-payment of child support, told them he pays me cash every Friday, and they believed him.. so we never got a penny..
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Putting aside the money issue for a moment, did you think you loved your husband when you married him, and do you think now, (as you must have done then), that he loved you too? :unsure:
 
@hollydolly you asked if anyone else had had something similar happen within their families. I grew up in Tampa, FL. I moved to Miami for my career and my parents still lived in Tampa. My cousin, who I grew up with in NC when we were kids, moved to Tampa with her husband and kids. She frequently got together with my parents because she and my mother were very close. My father gave her so much. Money, furniture, even a car. But she never once thanked him. At some point he wrote her off completely because of the perceived lack of appreciation and the perception that she was simply a "taker". He would never have anything else to do with her.

When he passed away, I reconnected with her at his funeral. I welcomed her back into my life over 20 years later. She ended up leaving her family (including grandkids) in SC to live with my elderly mother in TX for a couple of years and take care of her. Of course, I paid her bills and leased a car for her to drive my mother around, but it was one of the best things that could have happened to my mother and me.

I understand this was more of a "business relationship" but from my experience, one should never "write off" another family member. We still do keep in touch, even though my mother has passed.
 
hollydolly said:
I have to add this is nothing new for my dd.. if she doesn't want you in her life, or is not interested in you as a person, she's very capable of complete ghosting you... It's obviously some kind of preservation thing, perhaps stemming from when her father left.. but she doesn't take prisoners, and if she's decided you're not in her life you will never have the door opened again.
I have always been aware of this.. but I just thought she would have a little compassion for her own father.. . I haven't told her how I feel because it would make no difference at all to her reaction to him...I just feel sad that this is how she feels
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Tough that she thinks this way, (a very good friend of mine who I've posted about before, and whose first (/only) husband equally hadnt paid a penny towards their two children, and physically abused her in a serious fashion before their divorce, was herself similarly unable to feel anything towards him when he died, though she helped her sons sought out some of his affairs, (and I helped her when she sold his belongings at a local car boot sale, but there wasnt much of any value, and I'm not sure what his sons felt about him at around fifty years of age).
 
grahamg said:
Hollydolly wrote:
"oh she did feel that in her teens and probably her 20's... but not now in her mid 40's .. she's explained this to me.. she is highly intelligent completely in touch with her feelings, and as she explained.. she feels nothing for him, because he simply doesn't exist to her!"

"Interesting"! :sneaky::whistle:
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I was thinking of my ex-wife, Shelly. We were madly in love when she became my wife. She became my ex after she started drinking too much, using drugs, and shagged our neighbor. In fact, she left the kids in her car while shagging the neighbor. Our youngest was only 9 months old.

Shelly was killed in a terrible car accident 3yrs after the divorce. I felt nothing when I heard about it. I wasn't glad, or sad, felt neither shock nor satisfaction. Just nothing; like being told Cindy Schwartz died. (I don't know anyone named Cindy Schwartz)
 
This forum invites us to share to whatever degree we are comfortable with. So many of your stories have touched my heart deeply. And what is clear is that we are survivors, we're productive, we've transcended the hurt but have not be hardened by it.
 
hollydolly said:
and I can't ignore him, despite orders from my daughter to not have anything to do with him..
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Each of you are entitled to your own thoughts and feelings. While you don't agree with your daughter's feelings right now about her father, it appears that you are respecting her feelings. Exactly the right thing to do.

Hopefully she will also respect your feelings of compassion for your ex-husband and the father of your child, and your wishes to help him during a progressive illness.

She must have really felt rejected by her father. Such a difficult situation for all concerned. You are doing the right thing. And your daughter is doing what is right for her at this time.
 
I've shared this with one other person on this forum and I hope it somehow aligns with the topic of this thread. Whether or not you read the entire post, my point in sharing it is that all of us survive hurt in our own way and hopefully, we thrive and have meaningful lives in spite of it all. Here goes.

My ex-husband was charming...intelligent, witty, attentive, loving. For a while. Then had discovered he was having an affair, then another and another and so on. Of course, he denied it. Cheaters always do initially. I would have left then but we had two daughters that were still quite young (in their early teens) and I didn't want to uproot their lives. My Mother also lived with us and she required daily care as the result of a serious illness so while I worked during the day I had a caregiver come in to tend to her needs.

My ex-husband was utterly smitten with this caregiver - she was young, gave him coy looks, fed his inflated ego. They wound up having a long-term affair which I had suspected because there were many clues but he and she both denied UNTIL one day my younger daughter (who was about 16 at the time) came home from school early to find my ex and the caregiver in a "compromising position". It was terrible. I felt so horrified for my daughter. She was confused by it, in pain because of it and withdrew as a result of it.

I could go on for pages but my daughter went to therapy and she and I spent countless hours talking. She was my priority, not him. At that point, all of his begging for forgiveness fell on deaf ears. She is doing wonderfully now and is in a lovely marriage and has two sons. And she has had no contact with her father for years.

My ex-husband recommitted to our marriage (I did not, I could not). He said he was not going to have any more affairs but he had multiple ones. When I mentioned it (his affairs), he became physically and verbally abusive. His face reddened with anger is a distant memory but not the times he held broken glass to my neck, kicked me in the abdomen and back repeatedly, or threw large objects at me.

He found someone new, we filed for divorce, he moved out to live with her and I was left with the business of selling the house and settling his debts (which were business in nature but were charged to our joint credit cards). They married and live somewhere in Latin America. I've not heard from him in well over a decade.

I went to therapy. I cried for the man I once loved but not the stranger he had become, I felt overwhelmed by responsibilities I felt I was unprepared for and I worried about a future alone.

It took time, perhaps several years, but I finally heard myself laughing one day. I didn't recognize the sound until I realized it was me. Something had tickled me on the television and it made me laugh. A genuine laugh, not a polite, forced one. And that was my bell weather moment. I felt a sense of happiness not only about the future but also about that moment. My smile was back, it was natural again.

I feel he owes me an apology but it will never come. More importantly, he owes one to each of our children. Again, it won't happen.
 
@Leann thank you for baring your soul and sharing the difficulties you experienced in your marriage. I know it is cathartic to share it, but it is also cathartic for some of us to read and relate to it. I'm so glad you and your daughter went to therapy and that she is now living her best life. And glad you are able to smile and laugh again.

I will some day write a post about some of my former abusive, cheating partners but I will need a couple of bottles of wine to do that.

Just don't hold onto the anger toward your ex-husband. Don't let him win.

Anger.jpeg
 
@hollydolly You and your daughter have a close good relationship. It sounds like she cares about you very much. She has set a boundry with you as well as her father. You have done well in parenting such a one who has been through a lot. I can't imagine your own childhood, so sorry, now you have goodness with your own daughter, a great recompense. In myself I have known I'm not always qualified to completely understand other people sometimes, even my own kinfolk. I sometimes just think well, 'there must be a reason'.
 
It depends on the offense and if they know they've done something wrong. Is it someone I thought I could count on? Someone I trust? Do they even know they've done something to offend? Did they offend me on purpose? Have they broken my trust? Trust is paramount in a relationship; without it, you have nothing. I'd give them a chance to explain.

If they acknowledge the offense, are sorry for their words and/or actions, I can forgive. You can still forgive someone and not like the way they behave or have behaved. Although it puts me on guard, while I can forgive, I don't forget. If someone apologizes and then continues to act in the same manner (there's a pattern of offending me and then apologizing), you won't find me in their company. If someone hung me out to dry, physically abused me, slandered me, constantly humiliated, belittled, bullied, or tried to intimidate me, I'm not so forgiving. They're toxic. I'd cut them off and never look back. That's not someone I want in my life.

It can be difficult to understand why one person can forgive and another can't. True forgiveness requires strength. This doesn’t come easily. Forgiving someone is a choice. You decide to forgive them. It doesn't mean you excuse them and it doesn't mean you forget. If forgiveness was solely based on feelings, a lot fewer people would be forgiven.

@ Holly- Even though your ex hurt both you and your DD, and you know he's responsible for his actions, you're able to show compassion for him because he's ill, but I know it doesn't mean you're justifying his behavior. DD isn't able to do that. You know she has feelings. She's angry because he's deeply hurt her. So she's made the decision not to deal with her father on any level. I think you're doing the right thing by not pushing her and respecting her decision, even though you don't understand her complete dismissal of him. This isn't easy for you. My heart goes out to you both.

Ruby ✌️
 
Leann said:
I've shared this with one other person on this forum and I hope it somehow aligns with the topic of this thread. Whether or not you read the entire post, my point in sharing it is that all of us survive hurt in our own way and hopefully, we thrive and have meaningful lives in spite of it all. Here goes.

My ex-husband was charming...intelligent, witty, attentive, loving. For a while. Then had discovered he was having an affair, then another and another and so on. Of course, he denied it. Cheaters always do initially. I would have left then but we had two daughters that were still quite young (in their early teens) and I didn't want to uproot their lives. My Mother also lived with us and she required daily care as the result of a serious illness so while I worked during the day I had a caregiver come in to tend to her needs.

My ex-husband was utterly smitten with this caregiver - she was young, gave him coy looks, fed his inflated ego. They wound up having a long-term affair which I had suspected because there were many clues but he and she both denied UNTIL one day my younger daughter (who was about 16 at the time) came home from school early to find my ex and the caregiver in a "compromising position". It was terrible. I felt so horrified for my daughter. She was confused by it, in pain because of it and withdrew as a result of it.

I could go on for pages but my daughter went to therapy and she and I spent countless hours talking. She was my priority, not him. At that point, all of his begging for forgiveness fell on deaf ears. She is doing wonderfully now and is in a lovely marriage and has two sons. And she has had no contact with her father for years.

My ex-husband recommitted to our marriage (I did not, I could not). He said he was not going to have any more affairs but he had multiple ones. When I mentioned it (his affairs), he became physically and verbally abusive. His face reddened with anger is a distant memory but not the times he held broken glass to my neck, kicked me in the abdomen and back repeatedly, or threw large objects at me.

He found someone new, we filed for divorce, he moved out to live with her and I was left with the business of selling the house and settling his debts (which were business in nature but were charged to our joint credit cards). They married and live somewhere in Latin America. I've not heard from him in well over a decade.

I went to therapy. I cried for the man I once loved but not the stranger he had become, I felt overwhelmed by responsibilities I felt I was unprepared for and I worried about a future alone.

It took time, perhaps several years, but I finally heard myself laughing one day. I didn't recognize the sound until I realized it was me. Something had tickled me on the television and it made me laugh. A genuine laugh, not a polite, forced one. And that was my bell weather moment. I felt a sense of happiness not only about the future but also about that moment. My smile was back, it was natural again.

I feel he owes me an apology but it will never come. More importantly, he owes one to each of our children. Again, it won't happen.
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Cheaters don't apologize often & when they do, it doesn't mean much, at least to me. My ex wife never apologized for cheating, or for anything else. When she was terminally ill, a couple of friends suggested I visit her because she didn't have much time. (she died 7 years ago at 67 from some kind of cancer).
I said, "So what? We all get sick & die; what makes her so special? And why should I care about someone who caused me so much pain & has no remorse?"
 
Leann said:
This forum invites us to share to whatever degree we are comfortable with. So many of your stories have touched my heart deeply. And what is clear is that we are survivors, we're productive, we've transcended the hurt but have not be hardened by it.
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We are the lucky survivors yes, though reading the post above yours suggests there is some question marks over whether or not we've become hardened, (what would any of us think if our ex were to leave this mortal toil?).

Obviously not what we might have done had they remained our loyal partners, but maybe able to acknowledge they had some good qualities, attracting us to them in the first place, and vice versa, we must have met some need or even been loved by them at one time(?).
 
win231 said:
Cheaters don't apologize often & when they do, it doesn't mean much, at least to me. My ex wife never apologized for cheating, or for anything else. When she was terminally ill, a couple of friends suggested I visit her because she didn't have much time. (she died 7 years ago at 67 from some kind of cancer).
I said, "So what? We all get sick & die; what makes her so special? And why should I care about someone who caused me so much pain & has no remorse?"
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I think I probably agree with your decision not to visit, though its hard to say, (my ex wouldn't want to see me should be suffering a terminal illness, so that takes it out of the equation!).
 
Kika said:
Each of you are entitled to your own thoughts and feelings. While you don't agree with your daughter's feelings right now about her father, it appears that you are respecting her feelings. Exactly the right thing to do.
Hopefully she will also respect your feelings of compassion for your ex-husband and the father of your child, and your wishes to help him during a progressive illness.
She must have really felt rejected by her father. Such a difficult situation for all concerned. You are doing the right thing. And your daughter is doing what is right for her at this time.
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I take a different view on the motivations you say you approve of or admire, "but we're all different", so there we are! :(
 
Ruby said:
It depends on the offense and if they know they've done something wrong. Is it someone I thought I could count on? Someone I trust? Do they even know they've done something to offend? Did they offend me on purpose? Have they broken my trust? Trust is paramount in a relationship; without it, you have nothing. I'd give them a chance to explain. (Break)
It can be difficult to understand why one person can forgive and another can't. True forgiveness requires strength. This doesn’t come easily. Forgiving someone is a choice. You decide to forgive them. It doesn't mean you excuse them and it doesn't mean you forget. If forgiveness was solely based on feelings, a lot fewer people would be forgiven.

@ Holly- Even though your ex hurt both you and your DD, and you know he's responsible for his actions, you're able to show compassion for him because he's ill, but I know it doesn't mean you're justifying his behavior. DD isn't able to do that. You know she has feelings. She's angry because he's deeply hurt her. So she's made the decision not to deal with her father on any level. I think you're doing the right thing by not pushing her and respecting her decision, even though you don't understand her complete dismissal of him. This isn't easy for you. My heart goes out to you both.

Ruby ✌️
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I hope you dont mind I've cut a small section from your excellent post, simply to highlight the bit about what it takes to forgive or start to forgive someone.

I'd add one more thing to your list and it is becoming able to appreciate your own contributions to the failure of the relationship, "not in a beating yourself up fashion", that obviously wont get you over things or help the forgiveness process, and it is so self destructive as we know, (whilst accepting we're often unable to stop).

What I'm talking about is accepting we've fouled up, maybe in the ways our ex.'s complained about before they left, maybe in other ways they didn't understand, like not being more forthright in our opinions when they were showing disrespect, but ultimately who knows what we all may have done wrong, but accepting we do do wrong, make mistakes etc,., and it is only human to be guilty of this behaviour, as long as we dont make it our aim in life, or excuse for everything!
 

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