Stolen valor too common

[againstthegrain]

I don't think I would argue the point at all. If true then it is a non-issue, that should not concern anyone. If false the person knowingly must live with their own opinion of the facts. Draft dodging probably goes unknown to others, but the individual's conscience is their own problem. During the Vietnam era there were principled persons to chose not to submit to the draft, and some even left the country in support of their beliefs. I didn't, but I understood the principle they were standing up for. I don't see that in the same category of falsely claiming what never experienced in fact.

Of course not, character be damned. Some other young man had to serve instead of the dodger though, imo, that's way a way larger impact on others than making a false claim which in reality hurts no one, nor does a false claim take anyone else's "valor" away from any particular individual.

And conscientious objectors aren't whom I would include as a draft dodger.

 

[Naturally]

"stealing valor" or as it came to be known a while back "swiftboating." Naturally supplies the definition.

Negative shipmate. Stolen Valor has always been and still is lying about and embellishing military service
What you are trying to do is make this political.

I retired as a Navy Chief Petty Officer (E7). It would be stolen valor if I presented myself as having held or retired at a higher paygrade.
I served in theaters of combat twice. Once during Desert Storm and once during the War on Terror
But it would be stolen valor for me to proclaim I carried a weapon on a battlefield when I did not. I served aboard a ship.
As a Fire Controlman I was responsible for ensuring long range weapons were placed on target but I never set foot on a battle field.

Maybe in your opinion that isn't stolen valor ... but it would an outright lie then were I to express military service for which I had not served and a paygrade for which I had not been promoted or retired.

Call it what you will but it will not excuse lying about military service. Especially when one exposes themselves with their own words and on multiple occasions and venues. That is not misspoke ... that is lying. And usually done so for some sort of gain, recognition or perception ... all unearned.

EDIT: And if I trick-f(i)cked the system or jumped my chain of command to do anything I could to get out of a planned deployment that would not be stolen valor but not something anyone with any integrity would regard as proper moral actions.

 

[againstthegrain]

Negative shipmate. Stolen Valor has always been and still is lying about military service
What you are trying to do is make this political.

I retired as a Navy Chief Petty Officer (E7). It would be stolen valor if I presented myself as having held or retired at a higher paygrade.
I served in theaters of combat twice. Once during Desert Storm and once during the War on Terror
But it would be stolen valor for me to proclaim I carried a weapon on a battlefield when I did not. I served aboard a ship.
As a Fire Controlman I was responsible for ensuring long range weapons were placed on target but I never set foot on a battle field.

Maybe in your opinion that isn't stolen valor ... but it would an outright lie then were I to express military service for which I had not served and a paygrade for which I had not been promoted or retired.

Call it what you will but it will not excuse lying about military service. Especially when one exposes themselves with their own words and on multiple occasions and venues. That is not misspoke ... that is lying.

Whoa, whoa, slow down.........denigrating the military service of others is offensive, I'm agreeing w you. That's all I said. Denigrating the military service of others is being done now and it's been done in the past.

 

[Naturally]

Whoa, whoa, slow down.........denigrating the military service of others is offensive, I'm agreeing w you. That's all I said. Denigrating the military service of others is being done now and it's been done in the past.

Denigrating the military service of others is not being done ... as I stated, just the (proven) lies. And it doesn't matter who it is.

I don't think you have served in the U.S. military. That's the impression I get, but you seem to know all about military service and what is acceptable and what is not as far as unearned service claims and embellishments.

 

[TennVet]

I know a man who was trained as a medic in the Army, and had orders to go to Vietnam. His duty assignment never sent him beyond the HQ area prior to leaving Vietnam. He did not consider himself a Vietnam Veteran. True he did not perform his trained skills in actual combat, but he was there and prepared to follow orders. I never quite understood his logic but found no fault in it.

 

[TennVet]

Of course not, character be damned. Some other young man had to serve instead of the dodger though, imo, that's way a way larger impact on others than making a false claim which in reality hurts no one, nor does a false claim take anyone else's "valor" away from any particular individual.

And conscientious objectors aren't whom I would include as a draft dodger.

I guess I am thinking about the unusual events surrounding the Vietnam war. I agree with the point that another would be called up in place of the draft dodger. Can't argue that point in any way. I was drafted during that period and I could say that it was because a draft dodger took a hike to Canada, but I didn't and I still don't. That's just me. If I was the parent or sibling of one who lost their life in that sense I wouldn't be so forgiving in my opinion. Maybe even less after amnesty was granted to those persons.

 

[old medic]

PTSD is not only suffered by those who had war experiences. People endure trauma from many sources, and can leave scars as deep as any wound received in other ways.

Try spending 35 years as a Paramedic.

 

[hearlady]

The OP is a thinly veiled political attack for the record.

How would a Viet Nam vet feel about having an individual's father's friend, a podiatrist, write a letter about bone spurs in order to evade the draft?

Stolen valor is evil as long as it applies to the opposition, plain ole draft dodging is somehow overlooked if one happens to be on the same side of the spectrum. Remarkable isn't it?

If the podiatrist or the dodger ever runs for office they should be ready for the fallout. Just as someone running for office would be if they were accused of stolen valor.
That's really what this thread is about.

 

[Della]

Of course not, character be damned. Some other young man had to serve instead of the dodger though, imo, that's way a way larger impact on others than making a false claim which in reality hurts no one, nor does a false claim take anyone else's "valor" away from any particular individual.

And conscientious objectors aren't whom I would include as a draft dodger.

Oh heck! Did you go? You're blaming the draft dodgers for the deaths in Vietnam? How about the old men who sent them there? How about JFK who is on tape telling McNamara, "Yes, I know there's no chance we can win but if I pull the troops out now I'll never get re-elected in November." As far as I'm concerned, every death after that statement is on Kennedy's head. Not the draft dodgers, who were mainly just kids at the time.

Stolen valor is a shameful lie whether it hurts anyone or not. It's wearing medals you didn't deserve or claiming a rank you didn't earn or lying about where and when you served.

Deployment or not, combat in a theater of operations or not, should have nothing to do with whether a serviceman is honored. Military men and women don't get to choose where or how they serve, it's the willingness to give their lives for their country that they express when they sign up that counts.

 

[againstthegrain]

Oh heck! Did you go? You're blaming the draft dodgers for the deaths in Vietnam? How about the old men who sent them there? How about JFK who is on tape telling McNamara, "Yes, I know there's no chance we can win but if I pull the troops out now I'll never get re-elected in November." As far as I'm concerned, every death after that statement is on Kennedy's head. Not the draft dodgers, who were mainly just kids at the time.

Stolen valor is a shameful lie whether it hurts anyone or not. It's wearing medals you didn't deserve or claiming a rank you didn't earn or lying about where and when you served.

Deployment or not, combat in a theater of operations or not, should have nothing to do with whether a serviceman is honored. Military men and women don't get to choose where or how they serve, it's the willingness to give their lives for their country that they express when they sign up that counts.

Nice rant, do you feel better now?

 

[jimintoronto]

The last Canadian Prime Minister who was also a military veteran was Lester Pearson, who was the PM in the early 1960's. He served in The Great War ( 1915 to 1918 ) in the Royal Flying Corps as a fighter pilot, flying bi-wing aircraft. My point is that in Canada, political candidates are rarely also ex military members. We vote for the person and their party , not the fact that they at one time wore a uniform. JIMB.

 

[TennVet]

Try spending 35 years as a Paramedic.

I think Paramedics encountered a barrage of horrifying events. Facing persons needing help and the fact that many of them may not survive or if they do may carry life long issues of every sort has to be the worst kind of duty. Just think though, if you saved one life then you have that rewarding bit of hope to hang on to.

 

[Trade]

I bought a shirt from The Thrift Store...I just liked the fit.

There was an emblem on the front of the shirt. It was The HMS Toronto ship or something or other like that. A co-worker who had served accused me of stolen valor.

He was a friend, so I just laughed...went home that night...washed and dried it...and gave it to him the next day. He was very pleased. This fellow actually had PTSD from responding to a downed plane on the East Coast. The Lockerby incident I believe.

I guess I qualify for that stolen valor lable too. I sometimes wear an Army T-shirt even though I was only in the Air Force.

 

[jimintoronto]

I think Paramedics encountered a barrage of horrifying events. Facing persons needing help and the fact that many of them may not survive or if they do may carry life long issues of every sort has to be the worst kind of duty. Just think though, if you saved one life then you have that rewarding bit of hope to hang on to.

I get your point. I spent ten years working for the largest Ambulance service in Canada, here in Toronto. Despite what Hollywood puts out, many of my shifts were mundane hum drum 12 hours. You get the drunks, the bums, and the bored people who need to "talk to somebody ". Every Ambulance station in Toronto ( there are 42 of them in the city) has a "bad call/address list" next to the hot line phone that rings when dispatch wants you to go and do a call. The bad call locations are the places where the Cops arrive first, go in and check things out, then wave the Paramedics in the door.

Once in a while, you get a truly horrible call, that leaves you wondering..."why am I doing this job'? Four kids burned to death in a shoddy run down apartment, because their Mother was drunk and managed to set the kitchen on fire. She got out, but the kids did not. In that case we didn't move the bodies , because they were very obviously dead, the Coroner's constables get that job.

After ten years my back and my head told me to find another job. I did. JIM.

 

[VaughanJB]

Not trying to delve into a political discussion, the topic of stolen valor has bubbled up in a number of election seasons. Even though some politicians have been faced with accusations of embellishment of service records sometime reaching the level of total falsehood, no group is more offended than veterans. While I only know of the discussions in the US I'm certain it occurs in other countries as well. In my mind such actions are among the most shameful of personal insult. We can say that only the perpetrator is harmed, maybe true, when it occurs persons other than the perpetrator feel the stain of the fraud.

There's a Youtube channel dedicated to rooting these people out. It's a heinous act and shows a complete lack of character.