Students revolt over a return to in-person exams

Knight

Knight

Well-known Member
Glasgow University students are furious about the return of in-person exams
Uni bosses stopped running online exams amid fears of chearing
But undergraduate students say their mental welfare is being harmed


MSN

At the end of the article, I like Chris McGovern's thinking.

In response to the student mutiny, Chris McGovern of the Campaign for Real Education said: 'Glasgow University is doing the right thing. It should stick to its guns. Online exams favour cheats and undermine the integrity of the exam system. Grade inflation at universities is a runaway train.

'Snowflake students have been mollycoddled far too much and for far too long. They need a reality check. If an honest assessment terrifies them, they should not be at university.'
 

The pajama people speak. I was reading there was a generation out there that doesn't want to leave their home and it's not just virus lockdown related/created either. Can see it as well.

I have neighbors around 30 and every second not at work(partime I might add) is spent in their apartment with the curtains drawn, windows closed playing video games and smoking dope. They're worse than a vampire They want life to be like ordering a delivered pizza.

They'll spend the rest of their life answering those ads that say make 1500 a week working from home probably wind up telemarketing or something.
 

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As a species, we seem to have accepted that the only personal interaction we need is through a screen. People have "close friends" they've never met, or will ever meet. Going out of their home is inconvenient and too much trouble. Hell, these days you don't even have to go to the kitchen, just order in. It's a very different dynamic to us back in the day.

Having worked in the area of communication in IT, and for ISP's directly, I must say I hoped for more with the advent of the net. The net isn't all bad, of course, but the bad aspects really are hitting us, imo.

Can you imagine being someone who claims going to a hall to do an exam is hurting their mental welfare?!? Imagine interviewing someone like that for a job. How will they survive the business world? Or are they all going to be influencers with an Ebay business?!?
 
If the article is name-calling the students as 'snowflakes' it sounds like it is just a propaganda tool.

I think the students are normal to be anxious, first of all, who isn't anxious about final exams? And second of all, they have done their university work during the pandemic period and are used to doing open book online exams, so although it is a good practice to do in person closed book exams, it is totally new to this generation of students and to surprise them with it for the final exam is a bit much.
 
Remy said:
gave open book tests. ... those tests were hard....
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That was my experience too, the open book tests were much harder than regular ones. I remember one particular open-book statistics exam where the question was a topic from one of the last chapters in the book and the course hadn't even gotten that far. I still feel grumpy and indignant about that stupid exam.
 
HoneyNut said:
If the article is name-calling the students as 'snowflakes' it sounds like it is just a propaganda tool.

I think the students are normal to be anxious, first of all, who isn't anxious about final exams? And second of all, they have done their university work during the pandemic period and are used to doing open book online exams, so although it is a good practice to do in person closed book exams, it is totally new to this generation of students and to surprise them with it for the final exam is a bit much.
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Really? Surely they'd of taken exams during most of their schooling. It's not like you only test in college.

But mostly, if they're seriously suffering because of having to attend an exam, then I'd say their schooling has failed. Socialization is vital to a successful life. Pressure is normal at various points. Most peoples work lives is full of pressure. If you're crumbling when being asked questions about something you've been studying for a Semester, what hope is there?

Is it that they wouldn't have access to Google? Or can't communicate with each other during the exam? You won't get far is the major tool you're relying on is Google. OR - they're snowflakes. Which is not a term I ever use, until now. They're delicate little flowers who were taking exams at home due to special measures, and now have to return to normal.

The integrity of exams is vital. Just go to a damn hall for a couple hours.......
 
The problem with news stories like this is they can be manipulated by those with biased agendas that describe situations out of actual balance. Very common in this era with woke political issues and now even more so in a POTUS election cycle. And that media manipulation usually starts with a news title.

For instance it may be just a small percentage of students actually are complaining with the majority approving the result. Telling is how the linked news story purposely avoids mentioning in any way how much that point of view is held. Don't be a gullible media fool that fully swallows such headlines and news they are pushing until one has more credible substantiation. On any web board, there are usually a few political advocates that purposely start such threads so when one sees a pattern, be more suspicious.

Some young people today with supposed college degrees wonder why corporations don't trust their skill levels without thorough testing and interviewing. Well it is because in this era unlike decades ago, numbers of graduates are receiving degrees in flawed processes. Note as a lead tech person sometimes assigned to testing BS electronics degree job applicants, I couldn't believe how little skilled many were.
 
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It seems that some love the highly regimented society and are gleeful when certain groups are "put in their place."

Last I heard professors gave out grades so why do students at university get blamed for grade inflation? IMHO, that's a 15yd penalty for "piling on" since it has zero to do w the physical location of exams. It's agenda driven, rancid clickbait.
 
againstthegrain said:
It seems that some love the highly regimented society and are gleeful when certain groups are "put in their place."

Last I heard professors gave out grades so why do students at university get blamed for grade inflation? IMHO, that's a 15yd penalty for "piling on" since it has zero to do w the physical location of exams. It's agenda driven, rancid clickbait.
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It's not a matter of being in "love the highly regimented society" at all. For me it's in accepting that sometimes we must do things we'd rather not, or using methods we'd rather not. To claim going to a hall, rather than your bedroom, to do an exam is a "welfare issue" is ludicrous. Anxiety can't be avoided, even in this highly medicated world. Being anxious has helped keep the race going, let's not pretend it's damaging.

Grade inflation? It's because of money. A school that fails 90% of its students would soon go out of business. So some schools have been accused of trying to hit various pass rates to maintain their business model.
 
As a math instructor of online classes at a community college, a sit-down midterm and final exam made up a majority of their grade. And for exactly the same reason cited in the article.

For students out of the area, I required proctored exams with a trusted, pre-approved, proctor that was an educator of some type.
 
Add me to list of people who thought open book exams were extremely hard. What was worse by a long shot were the two take home exams I had.
 
VaughanJB said:
You won't get far is the major tool you're relying on is Google.
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Good research skills can come in very handy in careers. Several times I helped our team figure out a problem because I was skilled at searching the projects' old documents.

Did we really use our college course work knowledge in our careers? I think any career that really requires a base of knowledge has a separate licensing exam. When I went to college they were fond of telling us that we were learning how to learn. I think that probably was the basic skill we acquired.

I still think if the class of 2024 has spent their entire college doing one style of tests, then changing it at the very last and extremely important exam (assuming this is short notice and their exams are coming up in a matter of weeks from now) is flying in the face of human nature.
 
One student said they never put in a position to 'recall' information. Well on/in most job one has to know information. Not the ability to look it up in a book or computer. Every job and many situations require walking around knowledge.

That being said were the students taking in person learning?

I will say shame on this and other schools for waiting so long to restore in person learning and test taking. If things turn out too bad hopefully they'll be given a chance to retake the exams. But the university is right in order for their degree to mean something they need things like in person test taking.
 
HoneyNut said:
Good research skills can come in very handy in careers. Several times I helped our team figure out a problem because I was skilled at searching the projects' old documents.

Did we really use our college course work knowledge in our careers? I think any career that really requires a base of knowledge has a separate licensing exam. When I went to college they were fond of telling us that we were learning how to learn. I think that probably was the basic skill we acquired.
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This is a whole other question, and I've gone both ways on it. Here's what I think an education does for you:
  • Provides basic life skills knowledge (read, writing, etc.)
  • Teases out individual aptitude and skills
  • Provides basic business skills (research)
  • Socialization
  • Regimentation
As you go from primary school (aged 5 up) to Senior School (High School) to college, so that level of basic knowledge is expanded upon and enlarged. The knowledge level gets deeper, and at some point more refined (specialization).

My career was in IT, and in many areas of IT. When I went to school as a child, there was no such thing as a home computer! There were no servers other than systems that filled entire rooms and buildings. There was no networking. However, I had a very nice little career in many ways. How? My studies went on. But not in a formal setting such as a college, but on my own. I devoured book after book. I bought systems for home to mess with, I was one of the early IBM XT users. I learned how the practical knowledge, and I learned hands on. I'd say that was research.

My point being, very very little of what I explicitly learned during schooling applied to what I needed. What I required more than anything else was true and insatiable curiosity, the ability to read and understand, the ability to come up with my own curriculum of what would be important today, tomorrow, and beyond. A lot of time went into it, and the learning never stopped. But the process of learning was vital, and that came from my schooling.

I've also learned a whole lot from people I've met. My friends and I were in fierce competition. I'd naturally drifted toward people with similar ambitions and likes, and we were nerds. We would race to grab the newest book, read the latest article, to understand some piece of complexity, and to set things up at home. We got bragging rights, and a real kick from it. We'd meet more weekends at a local book shop to see what new titles they had in, etc. It was a real adventure.

So how does this work in a world where everything is done online, and people rarely, if ever, meet? What truly constitutes "knowledge" when we all have access to Google? Some think that if they can find an immediate explanation on Google, they know all they need to know. Others disagree. But an entire college education done virtually? I'm not sure I can dig that.
 
The people that complain the loudest about return to in person school or work .......... are often IMO the type who will cheat or do very very little.
it is an exam and being in person is not asking that much.

i find it hilarious the lengths they will go...... glad to see most places are not falling for these excuses and sticking to the plan .......
 
re the OP...I was born and raised in Glasgow... We were deemed to be the most well educated pupils in the whole of the UK at the time.. to the extent that Kings, and World leaders sent their children to our schools and Universities.

Never would that happen today..with all the ''pyjama people''...
 
VaughanJB said:
So how does this work in a world where everything is done online, and people rarely, if ever, meet? What truly constitutes "knowledge" when we all have access to Google? Some think that if they can find an immediate explanation on Google, they know all they need to know. Others disagree. But an entire college education done virtually? I'm not sure I can dig that.
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Well these are good questions and I think the answers are still developing. Some areas are much easier to move totally online (such as working office jobs), and other areas we are still struggling to adapt and create ways to do it online (such as buying clothes).

Online learning has gotten pretty good, maybe not perfected yet, but I really am enjoying learning a language on DuoLingo, and it presents listening exercises with two options, one is regular speed and one is slowly enunciating each word. So I try regular speed and if I can't tell after three or four attempts, I use the turtle icon to listen to a slow version (for example, for English would be the difference of 'What-cha-doin?' and 'What' 'Are' 'You' 'Doing'?'). I actually figured out what someone asked me in Spanish just from having online learning.

But a lot of "online" learning is really just "book" learning, so not any different. Of course you have to be cautious about sources, maybe more so than printed books (tho I suppose there are wrong printed books too).

I do think there is value in face to face meeting, but not for getting work done in an office, virtually all the work communication even when in the office was 'online', and face to face was for socializing, walking breaks, and other goofing off. So not being a college student in these modern times I personally don't know what methods the kids find best.
 

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