Supermarkets have a very low moral compass

Supermarkets are not charities. If you're out of work and wander into a Mercedes car dealership, and if they won't sell you a car for 97% off; does that make the dealership a villain? So why are supermarkets different? If you get a better deal by buying goods at the store across the street- are you being "disloyal", or being financially sound.?
 

jimintoronto said:
A very good summary of what it costs to operate a national grocery chain in Canada. I own some shares in Loblaw's and Sobey's, and those shares pay ME a cash dividend yearly. People who bitch and moan about profits are usually the same ones who don't understand the concept of ownership of a business. JimB.
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We all understand businesses need to make a profit. That's not what's at issue here. What's at issue is how much of a profit is fair for the corporation to make without creating undue hardship for their customers, especially when it comes to a product that everyone needs - food. I agree, the grocery business is hugely complicated and there's a ton of expense items between the gross profit & net profit numbers and that as a shareholder a person benefits from the company's profitability. I have no issue with any of that. I own stocks as well so I get it.

There are businesses though that take advantage of the smokescreen of complexities of the whole grocery business and participate in nefarious activities such as price fixing which directly affects their customers negatively while bolstering their bottom line. Being from the Toronto area you surely must remember the infamous bread price fixing issue that Loblaws & parent company George Weston were caught out in.

"The price-fixing scandal became public in 2017, after Loblaw and its parent company, George Weston, revealed they had reached a deal with the federal Competition Bureau to avoid criminal charges over their role in an alleged conspiracy to fix bread prices between 2001 and 2015."

My point is, these large corporations are not always the good corporate citizens we believe they should be. Participating in unethical business practices to increase their profits is simple not OK in my books.
 
Where we live, we have a choice of about 5 grocery stores in a 5km radius. The cheaper ones are a little grubbier, (e.g. flying Economy as opposed to Business Class), and there is often less selection - but the food is generally still decent quality.

The parking lots at each of these stores are always busy - some people like to pay higher prices to shop in a more pretentious store while others don't.

None of these stores have a monopoly, and their owners/managers must be totally aware that they are in competition, with shoppers free to compare prices and go where they want to, perhaps never to return.

As a canine might say, "It's a grocer eat grocer world".
 


DebraMae said:
I pick up my grocery order. It has worked well through the pandemic, however, a couple of times recently I have received meat that is one day from its "best by" date. Both times it smelled odd and the second time the package was puffed up. I am 40 miles from a grocery store and cannot just take it back and exchange. I also got one order that contained so many dented cans it was as if they were trying to get rid of all of their imperfect products at once. Has anyone else started noticing this?
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I have gotten other items that are about to expire in just a few days. There was no way that the products could have been used before they expired and it would have taken a long time to use them after that date. Because of this, I quit ordering these products from them.
 
I cleaned out my wood furnace today, and loaded it up with old newspapers and kindling, in anticipation of another round of cold weather later this week. One of the old papers was a grocery ad from 2021...where they were selling a pack of 18 eggs for 99 cents. The price of 18 eggs this week was over 8 dollars...so much for the "official" costs of Inflation.
 
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Don M. said:
I cleaned out my wood furnace today, and loaded it up with old newspapers and kindling, in anticipation of another round of cold weather later this week. One of the old papers was a grocery ad from 2021...where they were selling a pack of 18 eggs for 99 cents. The price of 18 eggs this week was over 8 dollars...so much for the "official" costs of Inflation.
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Eggs are still $8+ for a dozen here. :rolleyes: My solution? I'm watching my cholesterol a lot closer now...;)
 
DebraMae said:
I pick up my grocery order. It has worked well through the pandemic, however, a couple of times recently I have received meat that is one day from its "best by" date. Both times it smelled odd and the second time the package was puffed up. I am 40 miles from a grocery store and cannot just take it back and exchange. I also got one order that contained so many dented cans it was as if they were trying to get rid of all of their imperfect products at once. Has anyone else started noticing this?
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No. I have never picked up nor had a delivery of groceries. All through the pandemic, I shopped as usual. Don't want any stranger picking out my groceries. As a result, I get to pick firm and unblemished produce, acceptable Best By Date, and etc. Sorry to hear that you are that far out. Seems like you are living in a food/supermarket desert. I have so many grocery chains within a 1 to 10 mile radius that they are falling all over themselves to compete. One thing I never want to give up is choices & conveniences.
 
Nosy Bee-54 said:
No. I have never picked up nor had a delivery of groceries. Don't want any stranger picking out my groceries.
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I fell the same. It likely wouldn't matter with canned or frozen foods, but I like to choose my own fruits, veggies and meats.

An aunt relies heavily on having her groceries delivered, but always seems to have a complaint about something. However, she has mobility issues so is dependent on this type of help.
 
jimintoronto said:
OK so what solutions do you have to offer ??> Seriously, what changes would you make ? JimB.
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Glad you asked. :)

As I posted earlier in this thread, impose a windfall profits tax on companies that are gouging consumers, such as Kroger's. They've made so much in profits, they're buying the Albertsons chain, which will reduce competition and allow more gouging. Not that I'll miss Albertsons. They're a poorly run company and Kroger's is a well run company, and where I do most of my grocery shopping. But their control of the market is becoming a monopoly.

Housing. It's probably time for government subsidized high rise apartment buildings. They were known as "the projects" in the '60s, but that was at a time when housing was still affordable and it was just welfare recipients who lived in the projects. These days, the working poor can't afford a place to live. Maybe it's time to reconsider high rise affordable housing.

Another action the government can take is to stop Wall St. from buying up real estate and making the situation worse.

What else... I mentioned AI and robotics in my earlier post. That is going to be a major problem in the near future. A lot of jobs, perhaps as high as 25% or even more, are going to be lost to those technologies over the next decade. There's no stopping it. Elon Musk and others have suggested a minimum income to prevent people from starving to death. That may help people survive, but individuals are going to lose their purpose in life. I have no idea what a solution will be for that. It ain't gonna be pretty.

Feel free to rebut. :)
 
hollydolly said:
in 1970 at my first job after leaving school..I worked 40 hours for less wages than it costs to buy a pound of beef today..or even a pound of cheese...
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I think it would be necessary to convert the value to today's sterling or dollar. Back in the first half of the 70s, I was making $2.25 an hour working on campus part time. That hourly rate is valued at $12.87 in 2023, adjusted for inflation. If I was more of a meat eater, I could go to Kroger today and get a ribeye at $5.97/lb.
 
OK, I'm a little confused here. When did supermarkets start manufacturing household items, running the meat (chicken/fish/beef/lamb/pork etc) industries, and doing farming?

I was under the impression that supermarkets SOLD the products PRODUCED by companies such as:
Proctor & Gamble
Kraft
SC Johnson
Perdue Chicken
General Mills
et. al.

Supermarkets have an average net profit margin of between 1% to 3%. Organic/natural foods average net 5-10%. Traditionally the major supermarket chains were union - their workers earned good pay and actual benefits. Compare that to Wal-Mart, who is famed for paying their employees so poorly that many qualify for food stamps.

Meanwhile:
Five of the West's largest energy companies – Exxon Mobil, BP, Shell, TotalEnergies and Chevron – have reported nearly $200 billion in 2022 profits combined.
 
Lethe200 said:
OK, I'm a little confused here. When did supermarkets start manufacturing household items, running the meat (chicken/fish/beef/lamb/pork etc) industries, and doing farming?

I was under the impression that supermarkets SOLD the products PRODUCED by companies such as:
Proctor & Gamble
Kraft
SC Johnson
Perdue Chicken
General Mills
et. al.

Supermarkets have an average net profit margin of between 1% to 3%. Organic/natural foods average net 5-10%. Traditionally the major supermarket chains were union - their workers earned good pay and actual benefits. Compare that to Wal-Mart, who is famed for paying their employees so poorly that many qualify for food stamps.

Meanwhile:
Five of the West's largest energy companies – Exxon Mobil, BP, Shell, TotalEnergies and Chevron – have reported nearly $200 billion in 2022 profits combined.
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The Supermarkets here screw the producers, paying them as little as possible then sell to the public at a greatly increased prices.
They also regularly price check produce of the shopping centre fruit and veg markets, undercutting them.
For a supermarket that sells life necessities, making a billion dollars in pure profit, year after year is grossly immoral, my opinion.
 
Liberty said:
Think Kroger's is doing a fine job...have watched their prices go back down and things like bread and snacks have been really lowered to almost what they were before the pandemic. Lots of sales. They've have coffee, beer and wine on sale for 20% off 6 units or more so it looks like they are competing with the big drink warehouses and big box stores like Costco and Sams.

Can't believe we can buy the normal wine we like (big 1.5 ltr bottles) for less than 6 bucks a bottle.
Usually get between 60 and 90 cents off a gallon for gas, too. No complaints. Using the Discover card right now to get an additional 5% off groceries, too. Life is good!
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Same here. Plus, Kroger tracks what I buy and sends me coupons each month for $$$ off those products. I would have bought them anyway, so it's money in my pocket. I know it's to keep my loyalty because there are more Tom Thumb stores in my area but I will still make the trek to Kroger. I also buy the 6 bottles of wine with the discount and fill up at their gas pumps!
 
A couple pounds of chicken are cheaper than a dozen eggs? The baked goods have almost doubled as have many salted/cheese flavored snacks. OJ is creeping up.

I shop several different stores and have started buy a few items an outlet store 9 miles away. The prices changes are done Fridays and with in hours a local competing store will match it. The discount supermarkets are now more than generics in a regular supermarket. And no sign of let up.

They say don't confuse store prices with good economic news because they prices are based on fuel and supply costs 3-6 months ago.
 
I went to a local health food store today. I noted how there were few items on sale. Usually there is one brand of cereal on sale. There were none on sale. And prices had increased. I wish I were a better cook. Still trying to do most shopping at WINCO Foods and Trader Joe's.
 
SeniorBen said:
Glad you asked. :)

As I posted earlier in this thread, impose a windfall profits tax on companies that are gouging consumers, such as Kroger's. They've made so much in profits, they're buying the Albertsons chain, which will reduce competition and allow more gouging. Not that I'll miss Albertsons. They're a poorly run company and Kroger's is a well run company, and where I do most of my grocery shopping. But their control of the market is becoming a monopoly.

Housing. It's probably time for government subsidized high rise apartment buildings. They were known as "the projects" in the '60s, but that was at a time when housing was still affordable and it was just welfare recipients who lived in the projects. These days, the working poor can't afford a place to live. Maybe it's time to reconsider high rise affordable housing.

Another action the government can take is to stop Wall St. from buying up real estate and making the situation worse.

What else... I mentioned AI and robotics in my earlier post. That is going to be a major problem in the near future. A lot of jobs, perhaps as high as 25% or even more, are going to be lost to those technologies over the next decade. There's no stopping it. Elon Musk and others have suggested a minimum income to prevent people from starving to death. That may help people survive, but individuals are going to lose their purpose in life. I have no idea what a solution will be for that. It ain't gonna be pretty.

Feel free to rebut. :)
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I actually agree with your recommendations, but my response to this is that there are many jobs in skilled trades (homebuilders, mechanics, repairmen) that are vacant so perhaps this offers an opportunity in the future when other jobs are phased out by AI.

The challenge is that most young people are no longer interested in them. I certainly don't see young people in the tech industry, which is losing thousands, turning to skilled labor. They are used to sitting behind a desk and writing code.

There seems to be a current attitude among young people of "that is beneath me" that is causing a shortage. There is no need for them to starve. There is simply a need for them to recognize where the opportunities are and suck it up. Not everyone can be a Social Media influencer.
 
seadoug said:
I actually agree with your recommendations, but my response to this is that there are many jobs in skilled trades (homebuilders, mechanics, repairmen) that are vacant so perhaps this offers an opportunity in the future when other jobs are phased out by AI.

The challenge is that most young people are no longer interested in them. I certainly don't see young people in the tech industry, which is losing thousands, turning to skilled labor. They are used to sitting behind a desk and writing code.

There seems to be a current attitude among young people of "that is beneath me" that is causing a shortage. There is no need for them to starve. There is simply a need for them to recognize where the opportunities are and suck it up. Not everyone can be a Social Media influencer.
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True, dat. It seems like construction work has gotten stigmatized in our country, or perhaps any kind of manual labor such as mechanic. Those jobs pay pretty well these days... much better than service work, but kids these days don't want to do any kind of manual work. They want to be the boss or play video games at work. Or be a social media influencer, like you said. That's their prerogative, I guess.
 
I just remind myself of how lucky we are not to live in countries where couples work all day just to make enough money to buy dinner.

Minimum wage is rising to $15 an hour in many areas. Say you want to buy an inexpensive dinner for a family of four; eggs are around five dollars a dozen in my area, add some pancake mix, a jar of applesauce, throw in a gallon of milk and a box of oatmeal for tomorrows breakfast, and you've paid for it all with one hour's pay.

Food, the only thing we all must have to live, is still a very good bargain.
 
I agree with @Della that we are lucky in the U.S. and other western industrialized countries. We have food.

There is no reason for gouging or wanting more and more profits. There is no reason for perfectly good items to be thrown in dumpsters either. Food and otherwise. But it's done because the companies can do a tax write off and it's easier than giving away.

I've been making pancakes with soymilk and no eggs for years. But if you do a Google search, you'll find recipes that also use milk and butter but no eggs. Really not needed.
 

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