Temporal Death and the Soul

Gardenlover

Gardenlover

The world needs more love
When we die it's obvious that our bodies are no longer animated. All the body parts are often still there and in their correct places, but we are no longer the life of the party.

As I mentioned in another post, I will be having heart surgery. During the process my heart will be stopped and a machine will take over the process while the heart is being worked on.

I was talking about the following points with my wife and thought it would be interesting to hear other opinions.

1. At what point are we dead? When the heart stops or something else?
2. What part of the body houses the soul? Heart, brain or perhaps the entire body? If the whole body, do we lose part of our soul if if lose an arm or a leg?
3. At what point after death does the soul leave the body and where does it go?
4. If the soul leaves your body and then you are later brought back to life, does the soul ever have trouble finding it's way back to the body?
5. What forces the soul to return to the body, if in fact the soul leaves at death?
 

Stop it! You are engrossed in death right now because of your upcoming surgery!
Mike, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DIE BECAUSE OF THIS SURGERY!

I can't answer the first question as it is medical.
The rest of the questions are so complicated,one would have to understand some basic truths
to comprehend. I've addressed these questions in my books.
I hope it's all right to showthem here. These are the last two books:

Number 4: No! I've had many out-of-the-bodyexperiences and always am brought back by thinking of returning.
Number 3: Too complicated to give a curt answer. You lift with the angels. The soul finds where he is most comfortable.
Number 5: You don't return after death. Why would you not want togoto more and more wonderment?
Number 2: Your soul is always protected. It's not possible to lose the soulor part of the soul. The soul is YOU!

Don't be afraid! It's not time for you to leave the earth yet!
 

Attachments

  • 889.JPG
    889.JPG
    99.4 KB · Views: 2
  • 888.JPG
    888.JPG
    99.4 KB · Views: 2
Gardenlover said:
When we die it's obvious that our bodies are no longer animated. All the body parts are often still there and in their correct places, but we are no longer the life of the party.

As I mentioned in another post, I will be having heart surgery. During the process my heart will be stopped and a machine will take over the process while the heart is being worked on.

I was talking about the following points with my wife and thought it would be interesting to hear other opinions.

1. At what point are we dead? When the heart stops or something else?
2. What part of the body houses the soul? Heart, brain or perhaps the entire body? If the whole body, do we lose part of our soul if if lose an arm or a leg?
3. At what point after death does the soul leave the body and where does it go?
4. If the soul leaves your body and then you are later brought back to life, does the soul ever have trouble finding it's way back to the body?
5. What forces the soul to return to the body, if in fact the soul leaves at death?
Click to expand...
I know people who had open heart surgery and they seemed okay after, so maybe that helps. I hope you are feeling better soon.
 

Gaer said:
Yes, I've known many, many people who have had open heart surgery and are just fine!
You and I have the same birthday, so both of us are born under a lucky star!
Click to expand...
We do? Tell me. Please tell me sometime if you know more about the lucky star? I read too much real news and that brings me down, and that's why I often say I need some good news. I've read about the horoscope, but you seem to know more than I do.
 
Last edited:
Between those religious and those science oriented and atheists, such a question as to the existence of "soul" will receive myriad opinions, none of which can be stated as known facts nor can be even slightly supported, much less proven.

Accepted medical science does not accept the notion of "souls" that would be the first thing an atheist might spout. Religions use of the term "soul" is at best uselessly vague beyond an attempt (or rather hope) that something exists.

The above noted, as a science person that studies neuroscience and consciousness, I do have a unique hypothesis that over the last decade is receiving considerable increasing support. Otherwise science still does not understand consciousness.

First 1. a human body is dead when the complex electromagnetic oscillating brain waves within our nervous systems cannot be revived due to irreversible neurosystem organic tissue decay. That takes into account those in the in between state after drowning in near 32F freezing water that upon reheating have become revived. In that case their brain waves have ceased but without organic decay. Also a body whose tissues have been kept from decaying but without any brain waves or neural activity beyond that of the deep lizard brain is for all intents and purposes DEAD.

The closest we come to experiencing death is under anesthesia that totally stops higher brain wave neocortex activity. We don't die because our organic body does not decay. After the wakening chemical is injected into our bloodstream and reaches the brain, we suddenly are awake again and feel as though just moments have passed though an operation may have taken hours. This is totally different than after waking from sleep where there is a sense of time passage.

As for 2, my hypothesis is what we are as animals with a neochord and nervous system are complex electromagnetic oscillating brain waves within the impedance and structural containers of our nervous systems. That is true whether a creature is a monkey, dog, crow, lizard, ant, or grasshopper. Remarkably, all these Earth animals have brain waves that dated science had for decades dismissed as "epiphenomenon".

https://tamhunt.medium.com/what-can-the-brains-connectome-tell-us-about-consciousness-2e769c2d2b74

This is a key reason I believe it is possible (not saying probable) that some God or ancient Ultimate Intelligent Entity might be able to provide we otherwise mortal organic Earth monkeys or any other creatures with a non-organic eternal life. If an identical to our organic body's nervous system impedance can be constructed non-organically as is being researched in latest AI science, then yes we may live beyond. Read Ray Kurweil's latest AI book "How To Create Mind" to soberly understand how close science is to actually creating minds.

As we live in a universe with billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars and possible solar systems, it would be (without invoking all powerful gods) astronomically unlikely we are the only organic entities that have evolved to be able to write this. Especially if as my logic leans, matter/time/3-dimensional space has always existed into the eternal infinite past, (As in infinitely before the Big Bang.) then one would expect organic life as a minimum has previously evolved. If true and an intelligent organic species like we earth monkeys within mere moments of geologic time are able to produce singularity level AI. Then that absolutely points towards AI's were created vastly in the past and if so one of their crowning accomplishments would be the ability to save organic life from otherwise death and non-existence. What completes a convincing argument for this person is over the last couple decades, physicists and cosmologists have come to the dominant conclusion that our universe is utterly too perfect for the creation and evolution of life versus astronomically possible ways matter/time/3 dimensional space could actually have occurred utterly impossible for life given even slight variances in their parameters and values. That is why top scientists like Leonard Suskind have used the weak weak excuse of infinite multi-universes to explain it away. But then just recently another top scientist suggested our current Big Bang universe was likely created in a lab.
 
Last edited:
David777 said:
Between those religious and those science oriented and atheists, such a question as to the existence of "soul" will receive myriad opinions, none of which can be stated as known facts nor can be even slightly supported, much less proven.

Accepted medical science does not accept the notion of "souls" that would be the first thing an atheist might spout. Religions use of the term "soul" is at best uselessly vague beyond an attempt (or rather hope) that something exists.

The above noted, as a science person that studies neuroscience and consciousness, I do have a unique hypothesis that over the last decade is receiving considerable increasing support. Otherwise science still does not understand consciousness.

First 1. a human body is dead when the complex electromagnetic oscillating brain waves within our nervous systems cannot be revived due to irreversible neurosystem organic tissue decay. That takes into account those in the in between state after drowning in near 32F freezing water that upon reheating have become revived. In that case their brain waves have ceased but without organic decay. Also a body whose tissues have been kept from decaying but without any brain waves or neural activity beyond that of the deep lizard brain is for all intents and purposes DEAD.

The closest we come to experiencing death is under anesthesia that totally stops higher brain wave neocortex activity. We don't die because our organic body does not decay. After the wakening chemical is injected into our bloodstream and reaches the brain, we suddenly are awake again and feel as though just moments have passed though an operation may have taken hours. This is totally different than after waking from sleep where there is a sense of time passage.

As for 2, my hypothesis is what we are as animals with a neochord and nervous system are complex electromagnetic oscillating brain waves within the impedance and structural containers of our nervous systems. That is true whether a creature is a monkey, dog, crow, lizard, ant, or grasshopper. Remarkably, all these Earth animals have brain waves that dated science had for decades dismissed as "epiphenomenon".

https://tamhunt.medium.com/what-can-the-brains-connectome-tell-us-about-consciousness-2e769c2d2b74

This is a key reason I believe it is possible (not saying probable) that some God or ancient Ultimate Intelligent Entity might be able to provide we otherwise mortal organic Earth monkeys or any other creatures with a non-organic eternal life. If an identical to our organic body's nervous system impedance can be constructed non-organically as is being researched in latest AI science, then yes we may live beyond. Read Ray Kurweil's latest AI book "How To Create Mind" to soberly understand how close science is to actually creating minds.

As we live in a universe with billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars and possible solar systems, it would be (without invoking all powerful gods) astronomically unlikely we are the only organic entities that have evolved to be able to write this. Especially if as my logic leans, matter/time/3 dimensional space has always existed into the eternal past, (As in infinitely before the Big Bang.) then one would expect organic life as a minimum has previously evolved. If true and an intelligent organic species like we earth monkeys within mere moments of geologic time are able to produce singularity level AI. Then that absolutely points towards AI's were created vastly in the past and if so one of their crowning accomplishments would be the ability to save organic life from otherwise death and non-existence. What completes a convincing argument for this person is over the last couple decades, physicists and cosmologists have come to the dominant conclusion that our universe is utterly too perfect for the creation and evolution of life versus astronomically possible ways matter/time/3 dimensional space could actually have occurred utterly impossible for life given even slight variances in their parameters and values. That is why top scientists like Leonard Suskind have used the weak weak excuse of infinite multi-universes to explain it away. But then just recently another top scientist suggested our current Big Bang universe was likely created in a lab.
Click to expand...
I thought this was Squatting Dogs post, having the open heart surgery, but when I clicked out after reading your post, the picture is of you on the forum list where the person who made the original post picture usually is? , or am I mistaken?
 
I liken the soul to our kinetic energy which propels our bodily systems. Kinetic energy cannot be created nor destroyed which I do believe causes some wonder as to what happens to our soul. This is an example of what we are made of and gives some pause to ponder about life after death. Our souls do not contain our moral consciences but somewhere there are chromosomes in our DNA that do apply to our social behaviors. As for medical science denying the existence of the soul, well I am a nurse and when it comes to anatomy and physiology we don't discuss a soul per se. But I've never met a fellow nurse nor a doctor who did not believe that we all have a soul.

Medical science has made fantastic strides in open heart surgery, Gardenlover and you can rest assured you will be cared for better than a new born baby while undergoing this procedure. Don't fret about dying or what will happen as I sure you will be fine. You have my prayers that this is so and look forward to you returning and telling us all about this unique experience.

220.jpg
 
Gaer said:
Yes, I've known many, many people who have had open heart surgery and are just fine!
You and I have the same birthday, so both of us are born under a lucky star!
please don't worry! Don't be afraid!
Click to expand...
Why do you direct this to me?
 
Gaer said:
I didn't! I was writing to Gardenlover. Oh! You said "I know many people who have had open heart surgery and they seemed ok after"
i was just reiterating your statement.
Click to expand...
You accidentally had me worried. I'm so thankful for all that you do, and your energy is always good. It wasn't just what you said that seemed unusual, but the avatar on Gardenlovers thread also changed to P ,and I never noticed the threads doing that when I made a comment before. When I got the don't be afraid on top of the other, I needed to clarify. Also, like I say, online can be confusing. Sometimes all can be explained in some way. So much isn't sorted properly due to miscommunication, so I appreciate you getting back to let me know. If there is something to know, I'm very hurt if people hold back.
 
Last edited:
Patricia said:
You accidentally had me worried. I'm so thankful for all that you do, and your energy is always good. It wasn't just what you said that seemed unusual, but the avatar on Gardenlovers thread also changed to P ,and I never noticed the threads doing that when I made a comment before. When I got the don't be afraid on top of the other, I needed to clarify. Also, like I say, online can be confusing. Sometimes all can be explained in some way. So much isn't sorted properly due to miscommunication, so I appreciate you getting back to let me know. If there is something to know, I'm very hurt if people hold back.
Click to expand...
So sorry I worried you! I seem to miscommunicate a lot! haha!
 
I have had "minor" heart surgery [stent placement] X 3 So of course I wish you well, and I believe you will be just fine afterwards ..... So think positive !!!

I don't believe in the soul business, In that i do not believe we have one ..... therefore I have no other comment on that .......... Again, be positive !!
 
Gaer said:
So sorry I worried you! I seem to miscommunicate a lot! haha!
Click to expand...
I've clicked to send to the person with the original message and later looked at the thread and realized it went to the person who was responding. Regardless, I still see my P on Gardenlovers thread and don't understand that yet.
 
Patricia said:
I've clicked to send to the person with the original message and later looked at the thread and realized it went to the person who was responding. Regardless, I still see my P on Gardenlovers thread and don't understand that yet.
Click to expand...
I was trying to do a p.s. for gaer.
 
Patricia said:
There is a lot to navigating the forum that I'm not familiar. I just don't remember ever seeing my avatar on a thread at the forum. Don't be surprised if I asked a dumb question.
Click to expand...
I asked the same question. It means that you responded to that thread. I freaked the first time I noticed it, thinking it meant that I had become the original poster. Not to worry. There is a setting that says you want or don't want to know if you replied to a thread. If it indicates that you want to know, your image icon (or whatever it's called)will be over-laid.
 
I think of the soul as simply one's personality - the sum total of your unique mind. I believe it dies with our physical body.

But we might consider it immortal in that the First Law of Thermodynamics states energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another.

When under anesthesia, the loss of consciousness doesn't vanquish who you are. When you come out from under the influence of anesthesia, you will hopefully have the same personality (soul).
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top