You can have your opinion, and you don't ever have to agree with me on anything, I'm all for freedom of speech....and reality. Seems my point may have gone over your head, but that's fine.
Terror attack in Boulder Colorado
- Thread starter hollydolly
- Start date
I think you may be replying in the wrong thread here. Hello and welcome!
I also hope social security isn't endangered, many of us would be hurting in our senior years.
Bit like the Europe that the white people came from then - Europe was in a perpetual state of wars and certainly did some horrific tortures to people. Not just war captives either, just people of different religions sometimes.
Actually not even different religions, just different variations of the same christian religion.
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
This gets political, so likely will cause forum issues. Still,, you've written this, and I feel compelled to respond. You're looking at this as though Palestine would have been perfectly fine, if only some of them hadn't performed the raid in question. For me, that's an awfully convenient excuse for what's going on. That raid was a part of a lengthy suppression of the people of Palestine by the government of Israel. It wasn't some random event.
I agree with Seabreeze - history will write a horrid history of what Israel is doing right now, and the US will be on the wrong side of it. That the world is standing to the side watching children starve to death because food aid isn't allowed through is heinous.
VaughanJB
You always express yourself in a rational and civil fashion. I actually don't agree with Israel's approach to the October 7 raid; I think they should have taken a selective path toward eliminating Hamas leadership. I do feel, however, that Israel's "suppression of Palestine" (as you call it) stems from the stated goal of Hamas and others to wipe Israel off the map. That doesn't leave Israel a lot of room to be the nice guy in the region.
So, the same, rather than "worked quite well." Religious wars in Europe ended in the 17th century, though.
I'm just pointing out that the European settlers didn't find some sort of Eden here. They found an often hostile environment. Even more shocking were the practices of the Aztecs in Mexico.
Nice cartoon. Most people in Gaza, and most in what is referred to as Palestine, support a "one state solution" which calls for the eradication of Israel. Israel is obviously not going to let that happen. So the conflict will continue, long after Netanyahu is gone.You can have your opinion, and you don't ever have to agree with me on anything, I'm all for freedom of speech....and reality. Seems my point may have gone over your head, but that's fine.
Sorry if your point went over my head.
By the way, do you believe Israel has a right to exist?
As of June 3, 2025, Mohamed Soliman is facing several charges in connection with an attack in Boulder, Colorado:
- Federal Hate Crime: He is charged with a federal hate crime for allegedly targeting individuals based on their actual or perceived race, religion, or national origin.
- Attempted First-Degree Murder: Soliman faces 16 counts of attempted first-degree murder, with eight counts specifying intent and deliberation, and the other eight involving extreme indifference.
- Other State Charges: He is also facing state charges including first-degree assault, attempted use of an incendiary device, and other felony offenses.
Well said, and true.
Of course it does. I have no problem with Israel or Jewish people. I have a problem with inhumane murderous war criminals and extreme regimes like those of Netanyahu, etc. The lying killer should be in prison, best for the Israeli people, the Palestinians and the world. His blood lust still affects the US, until this very day. BTW, it isn't a 'nice' cartoon, it's a very sad one.
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
Tbf, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Yemen and Syria have also either attacked, or spoken out against Israel as a state.
I also have to be frank, this current activity isn't simply to remove Hamas. It's a land grab. Israel wants the ports of Palestine. What we are engaged in now isn't a response to the October attacks, it goes far beyond that when you're bombing hospitals, aid centers, red cross workers, and are starving an entire nation and targeting water supplies. I don't know if you've seen the pictures of the babies dying right now - but I don't think you can lay the blame for that on the shoulders of Hamas.
This is a difficult topic. This is partly due to the radically different views (in general) in both the US and Europe. There would be no Israel without US tax dollars. My experience, and I'd suggest generally, US citizens strongly support Israel. In Europe it's a different picture, I think.
What happened in October was wrong, and a response was needed and expected. But what we have now goes way beyond a reasonable response. Support for Hamas in Palestine was down to 21% in January of this year. Yet citizens are dying every day. Negotiations for the release of hostages have taken a back seat to military force.
Finally, thus far, 56,000 Palestinians are reported to have died. Their land forever taken from them. I just don't see where this can bring peace.
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VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
This isn't accurate. The latest number I could find was 30% of Palestinians support a one state solution. On the other hand, I support the fall of the Russian government, and in a free world, I'm entitled to that opinion. It is the actions that count.
And that, in a nutshell, is the frank truth. Israel has every right to exist. It should be free from attacks from outside, and it should be allowed to defend itself if it is attacked. In short, it should have the same rights as any country. It's in a volatile area of the world, but that history goes back decades.
BUT - what is going on now is heinous. I believe war crimes are happening all the time. I also believe that, since Israel has the support of other world powers, they're being given a free ticket to take these actions. We're all sitting on the side lines reading about the death of innocent people as though it's okay. I admit, I struggle to understand why people can't see what's actually going on.
To keep on topic - what this man did in Colorado is also heinous, wrong, and disgraceful. I do not condone it in any way. That said, I don't think we can just brush aside the frustration of what is happening in Palestine right now. Some people are driven to madness by what they're seeing. That's not in any way an excuse, simply an observation.
Agree. Some, like this guy, was driven to madness. You can support the Palestinians without supporting Hamas and their deadly attack. You can support Palestinians without hating the Israeli citizens and Jewish people.
Some of us want the best for the Israeli citizens and the Palestinians. Some of us want Netanyahu and Hamas to stop the killings. It's true, Netanyahu has been given a green light to act out for his own personal gains, and we sit and watch the latest horrors in Gaza on the daily news. My heart goes out to all those being starved, killed and tortured. It has to stop. People like Netanyahu can't be considered gods....they are greedy, violent men. Their actions affect us all.
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
I'm not sure why some people note that Hamas wanted to obliterate Israel as a state, but then stand and watch as Netanyahu does the same thing in reverse. I don't know what the feelings are within Israel when it comes to its citizens. This seems like a personal crusade, as you note. It's reached the level of absurdity, imo.
Are we to simply shrug our shoulders when we know Palestine sits upon large reserves of both oil and gas? Are we to ignore that this is a motivation for what is occurring? And what about the blocking of aid and medical support for Palestine's citizens?
dilettante
Well-known Member
- Location
- Michigan
I try not to weigh in because I have no dog in this fight and I do not believe any of it is about "who is right." But modern Israel's hands were soaked with blood right from its beginnings. You can't lay this all on current leadership.
None of that defends what this crazy did. He's probably just one visible tip of an iceberg of terrorists.
Hopefully no corrupt judge aids and abets this one in escaping custody.
None of that defends what this crazy did. He's probably just one visible tip of an iceberg of terrorists.
Hopefully no corrupt judge aids and abets this one in escaping custody.
Smiley, the idea that "uni-cultural" societies worked well in the past sounds nice until you look closely at history. The Roman Empire was a multi-ethnic, multilingual empire and it thrived for centuries. Japan was largely uni-cultural, but that didn’t stop internal strife, famines, or brutal class oppression. Complexity isn’t the problem, mismanagement is.
You’re romanticizing pre-colonial life. The notion that Native American tribes lived in some utopian harmony before Europeans arrived is ahistorical. Many tribes were in near or constant warfare with each other, raiding, enslaving, and conquering long before Columbus showed up. That doesn't excuse colonial atrocities, but let’s not pretend the Americas were one big peace circle until white people landed.
I was relying on this, which is a couple of years old. Of course the eradication of Israel is in the Hamas charter.
What Do Palestinians Want?
We certainly can't settle this issue. I respect your arguments but I'm going to stop posting on this. I find myself much happier talking about music, food, and what I'm going to do tomorrow.
Ok, glad to hear that. The eradication of Israel is in the Hamas charter, as you know.
I mentioned in response to JBVaughn above that I'm not going to post on this subject anymore. Thanks for your civil and reasoned responses to this painful topic.
Exactly, January, and thank you for proving my point. Violence, tribalism, and persecution weren’t unique to Europe or to Native American societies; they were, and are, human constants across cultures and eras. So let’s not pretend that brutality was some uniquely European export or that Indigenous societies were morally superior by default.
In fact, those distant cousins of Native Americans, the Mongols, swept across Eastern Europe, Russia, and Western Asia in the 13th century, roughly 250 years before Columbus landed in the New World, and committed atrocities on a scale that would not be rivaled until the 20th century. That, too, is part of the human record.
If your argument is that colonial powers committed atrocities, that’s historically accurate. But if you’re implying that pre-contact civilizations were somehow innocent or inherently peaceful, then you’re just replacing one myth with another. Nuance matters, unless we’re just here to score ideological points.
You said what I wanted to say, but in a more coherent and foreceful manner.
Looks like you just posted a biased opinion piece, I certainly don't rely on it like you do, lol.
Mitch86
Member
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
Don't forget the 4 million indigenous people living in North America when the European killers arrived. Few indigenous people survived the European massacres.
According to "The Battle of Wounded Knee" the "civilized" Europeans dug trenches and forced the indigenous men, women and children into the trenches and then burned them alive!
According to "The Battle of Wounded Knee" the "civilized" Europeans dug trenches and forced the indigenous men, women and children into the trenches and then burned them alive!
I've enjoyed my back and forth with JB Vaughn. You're actually pretty unpleasant and I suggest we put each other on "ignore." LOL.