The Beginning of the End for New Zealand!!

horseless carriage said:
I suppose in 100 years’ time, perhaps much sooner, no one will smoke. So we will be back where we were before the 16th century, when adventurers like Raleigh brought the native American habit of smoking tobacco to Europe. It was one of the points on which he intrigued Queen Elizabeth. ‘I can weigh tobacco smoke, Your Majesty.’ ‘Oh no, you can’t, Sir Walter.’ Then he would produce a small pair of scales, weigh a bit of tobacco, smoke it, then weigh the ashes. ‘The difference between the two is the weight of the smoke.’ ‘Well I never, Sir Walter.’

The Queen's successor, James I, hated smoking, he wrote a book, "A Counterblaste to Tobacco," denouncing it, and would have banned it. But that would have meant losing the duties on imported tobacco, so he dropped his plan. It’s odd given that tobacco came from America but it has been the Americans that have led the campaign to end smoking which is now being followed elsewhere, not least, New Zealand. When the first American colonies were founded from England, tobacco was virtually the only crop they learnt how to grow which Europeans wanted to buy. Without it, they could not have survived, and the United States would never have come into existence. Its origins were built on the weed.

Rather bizarrely, tobacco was once seen as good for your health! The Spaniard Nicolas Monardes had written a report into tobacco, translated into English by John Frampton in 1577 and called "Of the Tabaco and of His Greate Vertues," which recommended its use for the relief of toothache, falling fingernails, worms, halitosis and lockjaw. (Got to love the halitosis, smokers breath stink like a stale ashtray.)
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The US gov't supports tobacco companies in that they've taken bribes and passed laws allowing a few of them to have a monopoly and get huge and powerful. I'm guessing it was no different in the UK.

I assume tobacco isn't grown in New Zealand and people in power don't profit from it in any way, or any significant way.
 

rwb said:
Just my 2 cents but I think they are on a very slippery slope!!
The world-first law was passed by the country's parliament on Tuesday (13.12.22) and means that anybody born after 2008 will never be able to buy cigarettes or tobacco products.
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Just my 2 cents, nicotine is a highly addictive, dangerous and fatal drug. Killed my mother, and probably millions more. Good for New Zealand, wish the US would do the same. Heroin is illegal, so why not tobacco?
 
ElCastor said:
Just my 2 cents, nicotine is a highly addictive, dangerous and fatal drug. Killed my mother, and probably millions more. Good for New Zealand, wish the US would do the same. Heroin is illegal, so why not tobacco?
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Why stop there? Almost all common household cleaning products are toxic to humans, animals, and fish. And plastics. Man, don't even get me started on deadly plastics, and I shouldn't even have to mention various fuel emissions.

Again, seems obvious that tobacco isn't grown in New Zealand.
 

rwb said:
can't tell you how often I have damn near vomited standing next to someone, usually a women, but not always, wearing a horrible, foul smelling perfume, cologne or aftershave!
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I agree with you about that, not so much about the climate!
 
Good for New Zealand as they were also able to keep COVID deaths down substantially by closing their borders. That an advantage of being an island country.

One of my uncles died from throat and brain cancer. He smoked for something like 50 years starting in his teenage years. He was only able to collect Social Security for 4 years. Nicotine had him hooked. His parents lived to 84 and 91 having never smoked.

Never met a smoker that did not reek. I recall going to discos/clubs back in the 70's and they all allowed smoking. A lifelong non-smoker like me would leave around 1:00 a.m. or so and my hair and clothes reeked with the odor.
 
CarolfromTX said:
But if they can deny you this, whats next.
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I kind of hope they will start taxing sugar and force it out of foods it shouldn't be in. If it was just in sweets it would be reasonable, but the food industry puts sugar in almost everything. It is very annoying and excessive. I heard someone on youtube say that they have to make a law because for example one food company isn't going to reduce the percentage of sugar in children's breakfast cereal and risk losing business, but if there is a law to limit how much sugar per serving then it evens the playing field for all the breakfast cereal companies. Seemed to make sense to me.
 
Murrmurr said:
Why stop there? Almost all common household cleaning products are toxic to humans, animals, and fish. And plastics. Man, don't even get me started on deadly plastics, and I shouldn't even have to mention various fuel emissions.
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Nice try. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the difference between liking something and nicotine addiction. New Zealand is what it is. Don‘t like it? Move there and campaign for tobacco.
 
As someone who picked up smoking in my late teens and continued the dastardly habit until age 30, I only wish it had been illegal back then. If so, I wouldn't have started, believe me. It didn't affect my health long-term, thank heavens, but it surely could have. And it was a bitch to quit.

Smoking is damnably burdensome and costly to our healthcare systems. My relatives with COPD from lifetime tobacco habits are in and out of doctor's offices and hospitals, they can't walk a block without becoming breathless, and some wear portable oxygen devices due to permanent lung damage.

Kudos to New Zealand for addressing this head on and saying NO to big tobacco. Sure, there will be scofflaws in their population who'll find a way around this, but as time goes on they will be fewer and father between.
 
StarSong said:
Kudos to New Zealand for addressing this head on and saying NO to big tobacco. Sure, there will be scofflaws in their population who'll find a way around this, but as time goes on they will be fewer and father between.
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TBH, I'm sure that's gonna happen anyway. It's going to get harder and harder for the likes of Philip Morris to sell their crap. Vaping products already outsell cigarettes in some places and among younger people. Philip Morris bought production rights to vape products, but they're not even one of the top 5 sellers. (yay. I hate them. bunch of bullies)

The thing about vaping is that it's mainly a device, literally an electronic devise, so safety of use is regulated, and it will be increasingly regulated. Inevitably, all smoking products and devices will disappear, imo. It'll take longer in some places...like South America, China, and some southeastern countries.

But I'm not booing NZ at all. If they're really doing this because tobacco-related health issues are a drain on their economy, and the people aren't protesting in throngs, then, yo, give it a go.
 
To be honest, the only positive aspect of smoking is addiction. Then there's an immensely long list of health risks. Plus, there's so much scientific proof that smoking kills. So, you think that only rational animal on the planet wouldn't smoke? Nope. This is the same species where some would rather go to the grave rather than wear a paper mask, during a pandemic. The law may ban it, but the smugglers, and "illegal" growers won't abide by it. The only other alternative to banning smoking is to deny smoker related health benefits to smokers, to be paid by the smoker, and if he can't pay- tough- it was his right to smoke. Banning is a lot better.
 
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fuzzybuddy said:
To be honest, the only positive aspect of smoking is addiction. Then there's an immensely long list of health risks. Plus, there's so much scientific proof that smoking kills. So, you think that only rational animal on the planet wouldn't smoke? Nope. This is the same species where some would rather go to the grave rather than wear a paper mask, during a pandemic. The law may ban it, but the smugglers, and "illegal" growers won't abide by it.
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The main positive for me is that it's a great de-stresser. It's relaxing. Calming. Lighting up can prevent a fight, end an argument, help me concentrate.

You are absolutely right about banning leading to smuggling, though. There'd be land, sea, and air policing costs, more overcrowding in prisons and the cost of incarcerating tobacco smugglers ...but the gov't wouldn't be able to tax tobacco companies bc they'd be gone. And they wouldn't be able to tax tobacco products bc there wouldn't be any, so instead of smokers-only, they'd have to tax everyone bc they're definitely not going to shift the money saved on healthcare.

I'm not saying all that is a bad thing, I'm just saying that's what would happen.
 
Murrmurr said:
The main positive for me is that it's a great de-stresser. It's relaxing. Calming. Lighting up can prevent a fight, end an argument, help me concentrate.

You are absolutely right about banning leading to smuggling, though. There'd be land, sea, and air policing costs, more overcrowding in prisons and the cost of incarcerating tobacco smugglers ...but the gov't wouldn't be able to tax tobacco companies bc they'd be gone. And they wouldn't be able to tax tobacco products bc there wouldn't be any, so instead of smokers-only, they'd have to tax everyone bc they're definitely not going to shift the money saved on healthcare.

I'm not saying all that is a bad thing, I'm just saying that's what would happen.
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Precisely what's happening here. We all thought there's no way there would be any type of ban or impossible charges on Tobacco products here.. because our Govt receive such huge taxed income on these products.. currently around £10.27 Billion per year.. and that's with more than half of the public now Vaping instead of smoking tobacco.. ...but, we were wrong.

They've raised the taxes on tobacco products so that they are out of the reach of all but the most ardent smoker... citing the reason to save the cost of the National health service treating Cigarette related diseases... but.. the money has not been ploughed back into the NHS.. if anything the NHS is worse off because now.. the govt doesn't have that high tobacco revenue.. which was used in part to fund critical medical programs
 
Lara said:
Sugar is a killer drug too...probably more so...just not as annoying to others...so ban it too? Everything in excess?
Even too much water can kill you. Okay, I'll stop there lol.
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Comparing apples to oranges! Nicotine is physically addictive! If you are addicted, and you quit, you experience physical cravings for the drug. Not true with sugar, or "everything else" you suggest.

I am not a smoker, but my Mom, Dad, and Sister were. They all died from smoking related disease...I witnessed how their addiction slowly, but surely, killed each of them...they all tried to quit, numerous times, but failed!
 
Murrmurr said:
The main positive for me is that it's a great de-stresser. It's relaxing. Calming. Lighting up can prevent a fight, end an argument, help me concentrate.
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Smoking is all those things to you because you are an addict, addicted to Nicotine. Here is an explanation of what you have done to yourself.…

“Nicotine is a highly addictive chemical found in the tobacco plant. The addiction is physical, meaning habitual users come to crave the chemical, and also mental, meaning users consciously desire nicotine’s effects. Nicotine addiction is also behavioral. People become dependent on actions involved with using tobacco. They also become accustomed to using tobacco in certain situations, such as after meals or when under stress.
Nicotine is primarily consumed by inhaling the smoke of tobacco cigarettes. Other ways to smoke tobacco include pipes and cigars. Smokeless tobacco is inhaled through the nose as a powder or held in the mouth.
Tobacco is dangerous. According to one studyTrusted Source, smoking-related diseases are responsible for about 435,000 deaths per year in the United States. That’s about 1 in every 5 deaths in the United States. Stopping smoking, no matter how long you have smoked, can greatly benefit your health.”
https://www.healthline.com/health/nicotine-and-related-disorders

My heartfelt congratulations to New Zealand.
 
I was a smoker for most of my life, just having quit 6 years ago, and I still remember my thought pattern as a smoker vs now as a nonsmoker and those thoughts are very much different. The addiction to nicotine is powerful and shapes our thinking about smoking. I too used to feel smoking relieved my stress but now realize it didn't really relieve my life stress, all I was doing was relieving my addiction stress. That stress that builds every time you put out your last smoke. It also gave me an excuse to withdraw from the stressful situation and have a 'time out', to gather my thoughts about whatever the issue was causing me stress while I had my smoke. I actually find now as a nonsmoker I deal with life's stress much better because I don't have to also deal with addiction stress.

We are seeing a lot of price increases in recent years, primarily through added taxation in some mostly 1st world countries however there are many more countries around the world where cigarettes are still comparatively cheap. Here's a chart comparing the cost of a pack of 20 Marlboro cigs (US$) for countries around the globe. Pakistan & Nigeria take the prize for cheapest at $1.10 & $1.12/pack. I was surprised to look at the shaded map and realize that the majority of the world still has access to pretty cheap cigarettes. I couldn't see a date stamp for this chart but it appears to be fairly recent.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=17
 
MrPants said:
I was a smoker for most of my life, just having quit 6 years ago, and I still remember my thought pattern as a smoker vs now as a nonsmoker and those thoughts are very much different. The addiction to nicotine is powerful and shapes our thinking about smoking. I too used to feel smoking relieved my stress but now realize it didn't really relieve my life stress, all I was doing was relieving my addiction stress. That stress that builds every time you put out your last smoke. It also gave me an excuse to withdraw from the stressful situation and have a 'time out', to gather my thoughts about whatever the issue was causing me stress while I had my smoke. I actually find now as a nonsmoker I deal with life's stress much better because I don't have to also deal with addiction stress.

We are seeing a lot of price increases in recent years, primarily through added taxation in some mostly 1st world countries however there are many more countries around the world where cigarettes are still comparatively cheap. Here's a chart comparing the cost of a pack of 20 Marlboro cigs (US$) for countries around the globe. Pakistan & Nigeria take the prize for cheapest at $1.10 & $1.12/pack. I was surprised to look at the shaded map and realize that the majority of the world still has access to pretty cheap cigarettes. I couldn't see a date stamp for this chart but it appears to be fairly recent.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=17
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Not in the UK... see my posts further back.. £14.70 for a pack of twenty cigarettes.. not a carton..One single pack
 
Warrigal said:
New Zealand can easily close her borders to tobacco and unlike the case of the UK and US, smugglers would find it a lot more difficult to bring it into the country.

Even if they only succeed in raising the age when young people can legally buy tobacco products they will save lives. However, they need to do something about vaping at the same time.

Australia is now considering further measures to discourage smokers beyond the banning of advertising at cinemas and sporting events and plain packaging of cigarettes. These measures have been very successful. I am pleased to say that none of my six grandchildren, all around the age of 32 (+/ 4 years of age), have taken up the habit. In reality I know very few smokers these days.

Now it is time to do something about the curse of gambling that is causing havoc in OZ. The trouble there is that this is a huge revenue spinner for state governments.
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Warrigal, allowing vaping is something I can't understand yet our government encourages it. Perhaps they have been smoking too much pot. The gangs will get hold of the black market for cigarettes, the cost will go sky high, next comes more robberies , ram raids have become very popular with the young. Whatever happened to good ol NZ when murders and robberies were almost non existent, and that's the way it was when I was growing up.
 

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