The line between being surveilled constantly for your safety and - privacy?

chic said:
How do you feel about this. Are you completely ok with being videotaped everywhere. For your own health and safety, of course. That is what you will be told. But where do we draw the line ? I see the potential danger in time of people passively accepting these incursions upon our freedoms. Just my two cents. Sometimes I'd just rather be left alone to deal with things myself and be free.

What about you? Do you see any danger at all in this path we are being forced to travel. :unsure: :unsure:
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What fascinating to me is that people willingly, and freely, give up their privacy on Social Media each and every day. Some actually believe if they use a false name they can't be traced. Site like Facebook have been reaping the personal data of millions for years, but no-one seems to care.

Still, moving on from that, if you're on the street in the UK you're very likely on some kind of camera. Be it cameras run by security firms, local government, personal use, and doorbell cameras etc. - you're being recorded. Every inch of the City of London is monitored 24/7, even inch of the M25 (motorway) is covered by cameras, and so on.

We should also remember, most people walk around with camera's in their pocket all the time. it's not 1950 any more.

The reality is, we need to update our concept of privacy in the modern age. We all know that if you shop online, everything you buy is recorded, reported on, and so on. Every log in you do is recorded. Not only that, but our streets, towns, and houses likely appear on Google maps and the like. And so it goes on.

There's a real question to be considered when it comes to "accepting these incursions upon our freedoms". What freedoms are being restricted? What can you do without cameras that you can't with? Remember, we live in times where new cars essentially have black boxes in them, recording all sorts of data. You don't have to use your phone in order for it to report in. People speak to plastic objects that (hello Alexa!) record what's going on.

I think the idea of complete freedom is way passed gone. I don't even think it is possible in 2024.
 

Aunt Bea said:
If the government has guts enough to look, I’ve got guts enough to show ‘em! 😉🤭😂
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I cannot believe anyone is especially worried about the government in this sense - it's a hang up from the 1984 novel, I think. Why do Corporations get a pass, as though they do nothing nefarious.
 
Yes can’t even drive down a road without being spotted by a cars dash cam ..or fixed road cameras ..or mobile cameras ( we have illegal phone use while driving mobile cameras being used at the moment till they get around to installing fixed cameras )

Then there many homes with cameras on the front ( around ) homes .
that Detect someone waking running down the road / footpath as well as cars ..
We have a security self operated system DH installed and part of what the camera sees ….can be ….and is …blacked out so we are not invading neighbours privacy.
 

VaughanJB said:
I cannot believe anyone is especially worried about the government in this sense - it's a hang up from the 1984 novel, I think. Why do Corporations get a pass, as though they do nothing nefarious.
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Who is doing that?

It's just as likely that this activity is privatized these days, so already in the hands of corporations.

Gaslighting people that "1984" is irrelevant seems like highly suspicious behavior.
 
Nathan said:
Conspiracy talk and subsequent paranoia keeps the masses in line, and "buying" whatever subliminal messages are profitable.
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True - it's all about control. Fear and "other" have been potent mechanisms to keep people controlled for a long time.

Think about it. Persuade people that every news outlet can't be trusted, except one or two that are essentially under the same control. Dismiss experts and intellectuals. Dismiss education. Target alternate opinions and shame and belittle them. Ramp up the fear, pick your evil, and watch the "free thinkers" who are "doing their own research" get into line...............

And that was just yesterday. Tis a strange way to build freedom.
 
One of the benefits of all these security cameras all over the place capturing your every move is that it has resulted in extremely low crime rates. Crime is at about a 50 year low, primarily because there's almost no chance someone is going to get away with a crime. It takes away the incentive.

Everything is economics. A potential criminal is going to do a cost/benefit analysis of committing a crime. It may be subconscious, but he or she is still going through that thought process. The cost of committing a crime is primarily going to prison. There may also be a risk of getting shot, but primarily, it's incarceration.

For poor criminals, as most are, prison may not be that great a deterrent. At least they have a place to sleep and get fed every day.

Err.... what was the topic again? Oh, yeah... surveillance.

I think the biggest threat regarding surveillance is if the government uses it for political purposes — either to gain or hold onto power. That's its greatest danger. I don't care if I'm caught picking my nose out in public. But someone who might pose a threat to powerful people, and that doesn't necessarily mean politicians — it could be corporate power, they are at risk through the use of surveillance mechanisms.
 
Not a Libertarian, nothing to hide, and no issues with supposed current big brother type controversies. Fine with public ALPR cameras on our roads, security cameras about commercial buildings and areas, and people putting security cameras on their residences. The world today with the rise today of the Internet and now AI is significantly different from 3 decades ago. In our economically driven world, there is a constant ongoing digital war with criminals, hackers, and scammers against we citizens that in kind requires pragmatic use of technology to thwart. To deny such listening to those with rigid simple understandings complaining about trivial aspects of implementations is irresponsible. In free societies, we just need to use such wisely with oversight and be flexible, making changes to in either more or less direction.
 
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Nathan said:
@VaughanJB , True story. 💯
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It's the best way to build a totalitarian state whilst convincing the people it's what they really want and would benefit from. ;)

HermitHogan said:
I think the biggest threat regarding surveillance is if the government uses it for political purposes — either to gain or hold onto power. That's its greatest danger. I don't care if I'm caught picking my nose out in public. But someone who might pose a threat to powerful people, and that doesn't necessarily mean politicians — it could be corporate power, they are at risk through the use of surveillance mechanisms.
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This is what I was referring too. Governments can't have this power without the aid of corporations. The biggest danger today isn't governments, it's "follow the money", with corporations and billionaires buying influence and using politics as a tool for self-promotion and advancement. We have people who can buy everything they want, including legislation that benefits them. People are worried about the amount of data governments have about them, without acknowledging that corporations (such as Social Media platforms) have far more. Cleverly, they've persuaded people to give this data freely, and to even update it day after day, hour after hour, etc. IMO YMMV.
 
ohioboy said:
What specific government invasions of privacy do you refer to?
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Ever heard of the NSA and what they're capable of? How about tracking GPS on cell phones, that the government can readily tap into? Ditto for vehicles. Please tell me you're aware of the "special relationship" the government has between it and big tech. Law enforcement certainly tracks license plates on the road, whether or not said vehicle has insurance, virtually any part of a driver's personal information.

It's called "Big Brother" and Orwell certainly captured that idea 70 years ago.
 
Eupher said:
It's called "Big Brother" and Orwell certainly captured that idea 70 years ago.
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It's called "Authoritarianism/Toltalitarianism" and that does not describe current Western countries. The only way the U.S. will experience this type of government is if we the voters CHOOSE it. Will we?
 
Pepper said:
It's called "Authoritarianism/Toltalitarianism" and that does not describe current Western countries. The only way the U.S. will experience this type of government is if we the voters CHOOSE it. Will we?
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One of many, many problems with this over-reliance on technology that we're seeing -- the more comfortable people get with gadgets, gizmos, and devices that make whirring noises, the more the government and institutions wielding government power will use it to obtain more power. We're already seeing it, whether or not the voters have chosen it.
 
Eupher said:
One of many, many problems with this over-reliance on technology that we're seeing -- the more comfortable people get with gadgets, gizmos, and devices that make whirring noises, the more the government and institutions wielding government power will use it to obtain more power. We're already seeing it, whether or not the voters have chosen it.
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I agree. Our choices and actions don't matter at all anymore which is what scares me the most because it's also Orwellian. Freedom is just an illusion now.
 
Lawrence00 said:
My job offers bonus money for wearing a fitbit, revealing all my health statistics to some website, and it would even record when, where, and how much I sleep. No thank you.
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But what do you find worrisome about that, in what scenario is that a bad thing? The company doesn't get the data on individuals, the trackers are for people to improve their health (which the company cares about due to healthier employees costing them less for health insurance and sick leave). The trackers may sell the info but not with individually identifying data, and I find it interesting to read those kind of statistics (about average hours of sleep, etc).
 
I'm sometimes tempted to walk through the town centre where most of those nosy cameras are, dressed in a red and black horizontal striped jumper, a flat cap, a mask, and a long stick over my shoulder with a big bag tied on the end with the word 'SWAG' printed across it. 😊
 
Lawrence00 said:
My job offers bonus money for wearing a fitbit, revealing all my health statistics to some website, and it would even record when, where, and how much I sleep. No thank you.
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The same "bait" is offered by auto insurance companies for them to place "tracker" devices on your car to see where, when, how fast, you're driving. No thanks. I am not a reckless driver and my record shows it. That's all they need. Anything else is encroachment.
 
Eupher said:
"tracker" devices on your car to see where, when, how fast, you're driving.
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I think it is scary that they talk about charging the mother of the excessive speed teenager because she had an app that indicated he had been speeding and she told him not to speed, but somehow they think it is her fault he kept doing it until he killed someone.
To me the use of the app indicates she was doing what she could, and people thinking she should be charged would just discourage other parents from trying to monitor their teenagers.
 
chic said:
How do you feel about this. Are you completely ok with being videotaped everywhere. For your own health and safety, of course. That is what you will be told. But where do we draw the line ? I see the potential danger in time of people passively accepting these incursions upon our freedoms. Just my two cents. Sometimes I'd just rather be left alone to deal with things myself and be free.

What about you? Do you see any danger at all in this path we are being forced to travel. :unsure: :unsure:
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The line is drawn at the doors of your home and public restrooms.

Civil surveillance will become a problem when law enforcement or agencies such as the IRS or Homeland Security are given the freedom to set up cameras inside people's homes, and people just accept it.
 
HoneyNut said:
I think it is scary that they talk about charging the mother of the excessive speed teenager because she had an app that indicated he had been speeding and she told him not to speed, but somehow they think it is her fault he kept doing it until he killed someone.
To me the use of the app indicates she was doing what she could, and people thinking she should be charged would just discourage other parents from trying to monitor their teenagers.
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Modern cars, such as Tesla's, record what your speed you go, the route you took, along with other maintenance information. People still buy them.

Of course there are limits to this stuff, but sometimes our old way of thinking just doesn't work any more. Say, having your credit card information online. I can't be bothered to type it in all the time, so I don't mind. But of course, it opens the door to abuse. Today people are paying by swiping their phones over counter devices. convenience trumps concerns.......
 

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