The NHS has struck a dilemma - how to attract care staff without their families??

Wontactmyage said:
I have not seen a reply about the families taking care of their own kin. Here in USA they do have a program where a family member can be paid to care for their elderly and also can have professional care come in for meds and general check up. I know this is opening a can of "whoas me" worms but just did not see this in any conversation. Poor boomers did not think they would get old.
Click to expand...
families always cared for the elderly in Uk - I watched mine do it on shift system - many elderly didn\t want to go into care and their siblings didn't want them to either. I've worked alongside some careworkers in such environments occasionally and it is hard ; challenging and also rewarding work but not for everyone. I would think current trends are different and it is difficult to get ANY outside support - that is some potential careworkers from other countries are saying let my family in too and I will work for you - that is blackmail!
 

Last edited:
Blackmail?

would you be willing to work in another country and leave your spouse and children behind??

I wouldn't.

so if the other country needed me because they could not fill the vacancy of my work with local people then I would only go if my family came too. Fairly normal for immediate family to come with the worker - not just i n Aged Care, i n any work capacity
 
January said:
Blackmail?

would you be willing to work in another country and leave your spouse and children behind??

I wouldn't.

so if the other country needed me because they could not fill the vacancy of my work with local people then I would only go if my family came too. Fairly normal for immediate family to come with the worker - not just i n Aged Care, i n any work capacity
Click to expand...
I'd need to see ya stats for that dearie??
 

My stats?? dearie??

I live i n a country of immigrants, most of whom come here and work and their immediate families come with them.

I don't have any stats, of course, for my statement about what I would be willing or not to do.
 
there are plenty of south sea islanders working in our crop fields with no families with them - don't you watch the abc docos at all?
 
smiley said:
there are plenty of south sea islanders working in our crop fields with no families with them - don't you watch the abc docos at all?
Click to expand...

no I hardly watch TV at all.

Are those people immigrants coming to live here and is their experience typical or representative of most immigrants?

Because I didnt say nobody comes here without their families, I said most immigrants do not do so.
 
January said:
no I hardly watch TV at all.

Are those people immigrants coming to live here and is their experience typical or representative of most immigrants?

Because I didnt say nobody comes here without their families, I said most immigrants do not do so.
Click to expand...
ya showing no proof though? - and I think I asked first - ya not makin it up as ya go along are you to win a few on the board??
 
easily verifiable fact is that almost a third of Australia's population were born overseas. Also easily verifiable is that south sea islands are not even in top 10 of countries from which immigrants came -so fair to say their experience is not typical of Australia immigrants



From ABS official page - https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/p...s/permanent-migrants-australia/latest-release

Of permanent migrants:

  • 58% were primary applicants – the remainder were secondary
and explains its terminology

Primary Applicant—The primary applicant is the person who must satisfy the primary criteria for the
grant of a visa under the Migration Regulations. Also known as the principal applicant.

• Secondary Applicant—Secondary applicants must satisfy the secondary criteria for the grant of a
visa under the Migration Regulations. A secondary applicant is generally a dependant of the primary
applicant. (aka their family)
 
Wontactmyage said:
I have not seen a reply about the families taking care of their own kin. Here in USA they do have a program where a family member can be paid to care for their elderly and also can have professional care come in for meds and general check up. I know this is opening a can of "whoas me" worms but just did not see this in any conversation. Poor boomers did not think they would get old.
Click to expand...
Compensation for family members is based on individual US states.
 
January said:
easily verifiable fact is that almost a third of Australia's population were born overseas. Also easily verifiable is that south sea islands are not even in top 10 of countries from which immigrants came -so fair to say their experience is not typical of Australia immigrants



From ABS official page - https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/p...s/permanent-migrants-australia/latest-release

Of permanent migrants:

  • 58% were primary applicants – the remainder were secondary
and explains its terminology

Primary Applicant—The primary applicant is the person who must satisfy the primary criteria for the
grant of a visa under the Migration Regulations. Also known as the principal applicant.

• Secondary Applicant—Secondary applicants must satisfy the secondary criteria for the grant of a
visa under the Migration Regulations. A secondary applicant is generally a dependant of the primary
applicant. (aka their family)
Click to expand...
And it is basically impossible for an immigrant or citizen to bring anyone but immediate family as in spouse and minor children.
 
VaughanJB said:
I have just been through this (well, in the last 6 months) for a person in need in the US. I found myself having to throw all kinds of money at it. I don't even want to calculate the total costs, because it'd make me cry. I honestly think people under-estimate the costs involved, let alone the emotional cost. All I know is, nest eggs don't last long!
Click to expand...
In most/all US states, when personal assets are exhausted, Medicaid/Medicare foots the bill. That said, oftentimes there are no open beds in the most sought after facilities, particularly for patients whose tabs are picked up by the government (at lower rates than cash-paying patients).
 
StarSong said:
In most/all US states, when personal assets are exhausted, Medicaid/Medicare foots the bill. That said, oftentimes there are no open beds in the most sought after facilities, particularly for patients whose tabs are picked up by the government (at lower rates than cash-paying patients).
Click to expand...
It does take planing and cooperation. If a self pay facility is approved for Medicaid there is generally a waiting list. Get your loved one on it on day one. If the slot becomes available it can always be given to the next one in line. MIL is now at 13k self pay and the facility will continue as is once she has exhausted her funds. That was one of the reasons for selecting it.
 
January said:
easily verifiable fact is that almost a third of Australia's population were born overseas. Also easily verifiable is that south sea islands are not even in top 10 of countries from which immigrants came -so fair to say their experience is not typical of Australia immigrants



From ABS official page - https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/p...s/permanent-migrants-australia/latest-release

Of permanent migrants:

  • 58% were primary applicants – the remainder were secondary
and explains its terminology

Primary Applicant—The primary applicant is the person who must satisfy the primary criteria for the
grant of a visa under the Migration Regulations. Also known as the principal applicant.

• Secondary Applicant—Secondary applicants must satisfy the secondary criteria for the grant of a
visa under the Migration Regulations. A secondary applicant is generally a dependant of the primary
applicant. (aka their family)
Click to expand...
sounds goobly gook to me? - doesn't address the primary topic at all - off at tangents? - just like my missus used to do when she was losing a fight
 
I didnt think it was that hard to understand. :unsure:

It explains that a high proportion 42% of immigrants were secondary immigrants and what that means ie that they are dependants or families of principal immigrants ie that migrants do mostly bring their family with them.

Since you asked for proof of that and ABS page shows exactly that.

It also shows the top 10 countries from which immigrants come and South Sea island countries are not in top 10 - so, sure their experience, according to a doco you watched ,might be different, but clearly that is not representative of most immigrants.

Yes that may be tangential to topic but since you asked for proof, I posted it.
 
apologizes - seems you have done your homework - well done! mind you took a while to drag it out heh?

nb: the BBC news broadcast in Oz regularly were pointing out only today that the vast majority of staff now staffing hospitals ; care facilities and social services were from overseas - and that they had no problem recruiting from this pool but were subtly hinting that they needed to redress the balance [ you can re-phrase that as you wish] - they were being careful with their words but the hint was strong?

NB so the title of the thread remains appropriate??
 
Last edited:
StarSong said:
In most/all US states, when personal assets are exhausted, Medicaid/Medicare foots the bill. That said, oftentimes there are no open beds in the most sought after facilities, particularly for patients whose tabs are picked up by the government (at lower rates than cash-paying patients).
Click to expand...
Twostep said:
It does take planing and cooperation. If a self pay facility is approved for Medicaid there is generally a waiting list. Get your loved one on it on day one. If the slot becomes available it can always be given to the next one in line. MIL is now at 13k self pay and the facility will continue as is once she has exhausted her funds. That was one of the reasons for selecting it.
Click to expand...

Thank you both. As I have said, I recently went through this - it's HELL. I think it's fine to list how things should work, but quite another to address the reality. I don't pretend to speak for everyone, some may have had great experiences. However - Florida? It was hell. NOTHING was automatic, people were not forthcoming, and the facilities that were looked at were horrible.

Now, on the topic of the thread - the UK government announced yesterday that they are cutting the number of Visa's given to fill care roles. Sounds great, people are forever moaning about "foreigners" coming to country. The Prime Minister even said organizations would be told to hire British people.

What was not mentioned was how he was going to get British people to take jobs they patently don't want. Hence, we've used immigrant labor. How do you change the mind of people to take jobs that didn't care to do previously without changing something about it?

Further, companies are granted the right to employ immigrant labor at 80% of the going wage. So how is this all going to work? Raise wages to 100%. It's still not enough! Raise the cost for everyone? I suspect this is not going to play out too well.
 
VaughanJB said:
Thank you both. As I have said, I recently went through this - it's HELL. I think it's fine to list how things should work, but quite another to address the reality. I don't pretend to speak for everyone, some may have had great experiences. However - Florida? It was hell. NOTHING was automatic, people were not forthcoming, and the facilities that were looked at were horrible.

Now, on the topic of the thread - the UK government announced yesterday that they are cutting the number of Visa's given to fill care roles. Sounds great, people are forever moaning about "foreigners" coming to country. The Prime Minister even said organizations would be told to hire British people.

What was not mentioned was how he was going to get British people to take jobs they patently don't want. Hence, we've used immigrant labor. How do you change the mind of people to take jobs that didn't care to do previously without changing something about it?

Further, companies are granted the right to employ immigrant labor at 80% of the going wage. So how is this all going to work? Raise wages to 100%. It's still not enough! Raise the cost for everyone? I suspect this is not going to play out too well.
Click to expand...
It is the caretaker's job to handle things. There is no ho-to manual. Unfortunately!
It took about four weeks to handle everything for MIL in New Jersey. It took two weeks for Mumsy in Oklahoma. She opted to stay in her current situation when we showed up in Georgia to pick her up. So a couple of days to reverse the process.
Can you go into some details as to why things were difficult in Florida?
 
and we keep quoting here and there that there are rules for this and for that and millions of them to keep our societies running and still we get it wrong - no wonder we can't remember wot sex we are sometimes??
 
Twostep said:
It is the caretaker's job to handle things. There is no ho-to manual. Unfortunately!
It took about four weeks to handle everything for MIL in New Jersey. It took two weeks for Mumsy in Oklahoma. She opted to stay in her current situation when we showed up in Georgia to pick her up. So a couple of days to reverse the process.
Can you go into some details as to why things were difficult in Florida?
Click to expand...

Jeez. I'm so glad it worked for you, but it doesn't mirror my own experience. From places that refused incoming phone bills, to a place that was far more interested in claiming monthly fee's, it's been rough. But not as much for me, as it has the patient involved. The patient has dementia, so it's all a bad trip. Police got involved, mental states got scrambled, and up until yesterday getting a phone call into the woman was impossible.

Placement was very difficult. Doing due diligence - ie. visiting places before admission - was difficult.

No details. I'm exhausted by the whole thing. In short, those with money, as is always the case, will have found things easier. But when the person in question is poor, no-one seems to give a damn, and standards are zero.

Things are a little better now, but only by bringing in extended family.
 
VaughanJB said:
Thank you both. As I have said, I recently went through this - it's HELL. I think it's fine to list how things should work, but quite another to address the reality. I don't pretend to speak for everyone, some may have had great experiences. However - Florida? It was hell. NOTHING was automatic, people were not forthcoming, and the facilities that were looked at were horrible.

Now, on the topic of the thread - the UK government announced yesterday that they are cutting the number of Visa's given to fill care roles. Sounds great, people are forever moaning about "foreigners" coming to country. The Prime Minister even said organizations would be told to hire British people.

What was not mentioned was how he was going to get British people to take jobs they patently don't want. Hence, we've used immigrant labor. How do you change the mind of people to take jobs that didn't care to do previously without changing something about it?

Further, companies are granted the right to employ immigrant labor at 80% of the going wage. So how is this all going to work? Raise wages to 100%. It's still not enough! Raise the cost for everyone? I suspect this is not going to play out too well.
Click to expand...
Have you hd a chance to read through this? Not only are plans to change visa requirements in place but also citizenship. UK was never on our horizon though.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...over-the-immigration-system-web-optimised.pdf
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top