"The West Is Lost"

A

againstthegrain

Senior Member
Location
Sun Valley, ID
"From the Enlightenment onward, progress functioned as the secular creed of the West. For centuries our societies were defined by the conviction that the future must outshine the present, just as the present surpassed the past. Such optimistic faith was not merely cultural or institutional but all-encompassing: Everything was going to get better. In this way of thinking, there was no room for loss.

Today, that civilizational belief is under profound threat. Loss has become a pervasive condition of life in Europe and America. It shapes the collective horizon more insistently than at any time since 1945, spilling into the mainstream of political, intellectual and everyday life. The question is no longer whether loss can be avoided but whether societies whose imagination is bound to “better” and “more” can learn to endure “less” and “worse.” How that question is answered will shape the trajectory of the 21st century."


NYT op-ed
 

We're certainly rolling down a road of decline and facing all kinds of crises.

Copied this from the comments...
As Jane Goodall said, “Hope is a crucial survival trait”. May we humans find within ourselves enough hope to prioritize resilience in the face of tragic and inevitable loss.
 

Aunt Bea said:
Our perception is our reality.

There are opportunities in every situation.

Why is it that some people are able to see them and prosper while others are defeated and consumed by the doom and gloom. 🤔
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If all we had to do was over come doom and gloom it would be easy, that's just a mindset. As an example consider the people living in war zones in Europe, Middle East, and Africa.........is all they face doom and gloom? Is that just a mindset? I'm sure that quite possible they would feel that way if they were as secure as most of us on this board.

But from our apartments and houses in the sanctuaries of the many places we post from on this forum the suffering is all worlds away, but it does exist.

But we'll be outraged on rather meaningless subjects like crowd behavior at a sporting event where there wasn't even an injury as a result of that, but 4 kids get shot, 2 dead, 2 in intensive care doesn't even warrant a 2nd thought.
 
againstthegrain said:
If all we had to do was over come doom and gloom it would be easy, that's just a mindset. As an example consider the people living in war zones in Europe, Middle East, and Africa.........is all they face doom and gloom? Is that just a mindset? I'm sure that quite possible they would feel that way if they were as secure as most of us on this board.

But from our apartments and houses in the sanctuaries of the many places we post from on this forum the suffering is all worlds away, but it does exist.

But we'll be outraged on rather meaningless subjects like crowd behavior at a sporting event where there wasn't even an injury as a result of that, but 4 kids get shot, 2 dead, 2 in intensive care doesn't even warrant a 2nd thought.
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You live in a very dark place...so move on! You can bet I have.
 
againstthegrain said:
"From the Enlightenment onward, progress functioned as the secular creed of the West. For centuries our societies were defined by the conviction that the future must outshine the present, just as the present surpassed the past. Such optimistic faith was not merely cultural or institutional but all-encompassing: Everything was going to get better. In this way of thinking, there was no room for loss.

Today, that civilizational belief is under profound threat. Loss has become a pervasive condition of life in Europe and America. It shapes the collective horizon more insistently than at any time since 1945, spilling into the mainstream of political, intellectual and everyday life.
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It was much the same in the 1930's. Wishing to avoid a second world war, the government of most countries adopted appeasement towards Hitler and The Nazis, but a war lord came along with the name of Winston Churchill and he could seriously kick-ass, and did.
Strong leadership, fairness and acceptable standards will negate any negativity about the future.
 
againstthegrain said:
learn to endure “less” and “worse.”
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While I agree there is a lot of 'worse' going on, I'm hoping it is a swing in the pendulum and that when it turns around it will swing farther into more progress.

I think 'less' and 'worse' is motivation for adaptation and improvements. Less rainfall, adapt to drip irrigation. Less food, adapt to enjoy toasted mealworms (crunchy and taste like chicken according to youtube, ha ha).
 
HoneyNut said:
While I agree there is a lot of 'worse' going on, I'm hoping it is a swing in the pendulum and that when it turns around it will swing farther into more progress.

I think 'less' and 'worse' is motivation for adaptation and improvements. Less rainfall, adapt to drip irrigation. Less food, adapt to enjoy toasted mealworms (crunchy and taste like chicken according to youtube, ha ha).
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That's the point we used to be sure things would improve, today not so much - "I'm hoping".
 
The title "The West is Lost" struck me in 2 different ways. The first is "we're lost", a temporary state, looking for the North Star to come out in a few hours so we can get re-orientated and proceed to our desired destination. The other is "is lost" that is forever, never to be found again. I'm really hoping it's temporary. If it's temporary, the first step towards change and improvement is awareness.
 
againstthegrain said:
If all we had to do was over come doom and gloom it would be easy, that's just a mindset. As an example consider the people living in war zones in Europe, Middle East, and Africa.........is all they face doom and gloom? Is that just a mindset? I'm sure that quite possible they would feel that way if they were as secure as most of us on this board.

But from our apartments and houses in the sanctuaries of the many places we post from on this forum the suffering is all worlds away, but it does exist.
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So, you're agreeing with Aunt Bea's point, yes? The point being perception.
againstthegrain said:
But we'll be outraged on rather meaningless subjects like crowd behavior at a sporting event where there wasn't even an injury as a result of that, but 4 kids get shot, 2 dead, 2 in intensive care doesn't even warrant a 2nd thought.
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I'm sure that isn't true, but it is crazy how nonsense events will sometimes make more headlines than serious ones.
 
Murrmurr said:
I'm sure that isn't true, but it is crazy how nonsense events will sometimes make more headlines than serious ones.
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We have a thread on poor behavior at sporting event but not one about:

"Two children are dead and two are in critical condition after a shooting south of Houston on Saturday morning[10/4/2025], the authorities said.

The two children who died were a 13-year-old and 4-year-old, the Brazoria County Sheriff’s Office said on Facebook. An 8-year-old and 9-year-old were airlifted for medical care and are in critical condition, the sheriff’s office said."

Thoughts and prayers were not even offered.
 
So much information at ones fingertips does not help anyone become smarter or a better person. So much emphasis placed upon the predictions of fanatical people will drive one bonkers. There is a lot of that out there right now, you can blame the dope who discovered that controversy is good vector for advertising crap at people with money to blow.
 
Murrmurr said:
I was joking, but it was truth-based; I do misunderstand the posts on SF pretty often lately. I'm guessing it's aging, because I've also been increasingly forgetful over the past several months, and it isn't just little things. I've started leaving myself reminder notes in the kitchen.
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I admire your honesty and self-awareness.
 

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