There Will Always Be Poor People

Skyking said:
Who do you think funds most of these programs designed to help...who? For those who need help consider that we have Unemployment Insurance, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Social Security Disability, Public assistance via the counties, Food Stamps, Student Loans, Free School Lunches, Free Pre school, Free emergency room treatments for those who can't afford to pay, vouchers for child care, subsidized housing ala Section 8, not to mention subsidized Obama care and even free Obama phones. Then too there are the churches, the Salvation Army, The Shriners, Kiwanis, Mason's, the missions, the soup kitchens, food banks and private charities, small business loans and organizations galore.

And there are hundreds perhaps thousands more but no matter the facts some will not accept personal responsibility but rather want to blame it on someone else.
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Most of what you named are paid by the taxes WE pay, of which the ultra rich do not pay their fair portion.
 

Skyking said:
Who do you think funds most of these programs designed to help...who? For those who need help consider that we have Unemployment Insurance, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Social Security Disability, Public assistance via the counties, Food Stamps, Student Loans, Free School Lunches, Free Pre school, Free emergency room treatments for those who can't afford to pay, vouchers for child care, subsidized housing ala Section 8, not to mention subsidized Obama care and even free Obama phones. Then too there are the churches, the Salvation Army, The Shriners, Kiwanis, Mason's, the missions, the soup kitchens, food banks and private charities, small business loans and organizations galore.

And there are hundreds perhaps thousands more but no matter the facts some will not accept personal responsibility but rather want to blame it on someone else.
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Perhaps if Republicans in Washington would have voted on a JOBS BILL... or an increase in the minimum wage so people would not have to have food stamps while working full time in order to feed their families.. there would be more people ABLE to take your so called "personal responsibility".. Just a thought..
 
Jackie22 said:
Most of what you named are paid by the taxes WE pay, of which the ultra rich do not pay their fair portion.
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Not to call you out but you are wrong unless by "WE" you mean the top percentiles of income tax payers. I suspect you'd be surprised to find out how few people financially support this country. I'd give you financial facts to mull over but would the facts really matter?
 

Skyking said:
Not to call you out but you are wrong unless by "WE" you mean the top percentiles of income tax payers. I suspect you'd be surprised to find out how few people financially support this country. I'd give you financial facts to mull over but would the facts really matter?
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They also earn an outsized share of the income. The top 10% earn nearly 50% of all household income. We also have a graduated tax system... so the wealthy pay a higher percentage... which they can well afford. They should be paying much more..
 
Poor is a relative term when you start comparing.

The biggest worldwide problem, which is far reaching, is over population. I subscribe to the Natl. Geo. mag, and it frequently shows pics from all
over the world. All you can see is a myriad of children of all ages; all due to ignorance probably.
 
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QuickSilver said:
They also earn an outsized share of the income. The top 10% earn nearly 50% of all household income. We also have a graduated tax system... so the wealthy pay a higher percentage... which they can well afford. They should be paying much more..
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And they do pay more, much more... 46% of the country doesn't even pay income taxes. Keep dividing America into rich and poor, white and black.

Someone once said that if you take all of the money from the rich and give it to the poor inside a few years the rich would have it all back again. Why is that? Maybe they will work hard and smart, showing up on time and staying late, sober, drug free and in clean clothes. Maybe it's attitude and a desire to succeed coupled with an intelligent plan, taking pride and responsibility for what their work. What's that you say? It's just luck and anyway as Obama said, they didn't create it, someone else did. Yeah right, you are all victims.
 
QuickSilver said:
They also earn an outsized share of the income. The top 10% earn nearly 50% of all household income. We also have a graduated tax system... so the wealthy pay a higher percentage... which they can well afford. They should be paying much more..
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And they do pay more, much more... 46% of the country doesn't even pay income taxes. Keep dividing America into rich and poor, white and black, us and them, it's working. The masses are believing the mantra.

Someone once said that if you take all of the money from the rich and give it to the poor inside a few years the rich would have it all back again. Why is that? Maybe they will work hard and smart, showing up on time and staying late, sober, drug free and in clean clothes. Maybe it's attitude and a desire to succeed coupled with an intelligent plan, taking pride and responsibility for their work. These are things anybody, all of us can and should do. What's that you say? It's just luck and anyway as Obama said, they didn't create it, someone else did. Yeah right, you are all victims. Rant over. ;)
 
I think the "American Dream" is dying in this country, due to things like lack of job opportunities and living wages for the poor people. In some areas, there are no thriving businesses anymore, they have all moved to different areas or out of the country completely. There is a great class division in the US, some parents struggle working several jobs for their families, but their low minimum wage does not meet with the rising costs of products and services.

A low middle income family doesn't have any 'air cushions' for when one of their children get into trouble with the law for example. It creates quite the hardship on the family, and may deplete any savings that they had. A rich family can have a child get into trouble and hire the best lawyers to get them out of it, as many times as this may happen, it doesn't affect their wealth.

Some good people are struggling daily to stay above water in this country. There's nothing wrong with helping other countries, but it shouldn't cause us to neglect the people in ours. There are people here who are starving, poorly nourished and hope is leaving them because their is no investment in their communities, or corporations providing job opportunities where they live. The great divide between the classes is very sad to watch, and those in power with the money have no interest in building up this country again.
 
QuickSilver said:
Part of that is very true Lon.. However, in searching for cuts to fund tax breaks for the wealthy and corporate tax incentives, many states have closed the much needed mental health facilities, sending very ill people out into the streets to fend for themselves. Where were all these people to go? Most had be hospitalized for so long they no longer have family.. and those that do, find their families unable to care for them.. SO... what would be your suggestion?
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Picking on the wealthy,(RICH), Corporations as the problem just doesn't cut it. The problem is POLITICIANS and what they legislate.
 
Skyking said:
And they do pay more, much more... 46% of the country doesn't even pay income taxes. Keep dividing America into rich and poor, white and black.

Someone once said that if you take all of the money from the rich and give it to the poor inside a few years the rich would have it all back again. Why is that? Maybe they will work hard and smart, showing up on time and staying late, sober, drug free and in clean clothes. Maybe it's attitude and a desire to succeed coupled with an intelligent plan, taking pride and responsibility for what their work. What's that you say? It's just luck and anyway as Obama said, they didn't create it, someone else did. Yeah right, you are all victims.
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You need to dig into your "46%". I is a inflated figure when you remove the very poor, the old, the disabled, the kids. Phony number to justify greedy people.
 
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Jackie22 said:
The inequality in this country has grown at an alarming rate. The ultra rich have achieved their wealth mostly with the help of more and more breaks from Washington, we all know which party gives the breaks, pushing the trickle down theory.

To me it is very sad that so many think the poor should just 'pull yourself up by the bootstraps'...or that the ultra rich have no obligations to help the poor and homeless. The unbalance of wealth is the culprit here.
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There are multiple reasons for income inequality and that's why just one program or idea won't solve it.

To me some of the biggest reasons for income inequality is the outsourcing of US jobs, the reclassification of many jobs so corporate America can save money(an example:salaried workers classified as management but paid like an employee or supervisor), unbridled immigration legal and illegal which can take away good jobs on things like high tech work visas or jobs that Americans could make a business out are now undercut by a saturated and frequently cash only/cheap labor job market.

Keep in mind too some of the statistics are misleading. I know people in hospitality or tip jobs who average upwards of $1000 a week most of which is not reported or taxed but they are statistically part of the income gap. Same for many employees paid cash under the table.

The rich get the bulk of their tax breaks in business which in turn adds to their personal wealth. Overseas tax loopholes that benefit corporations only need to be cut out.

There are simply too many issues for one policy or change to 'cure' the income gap.
 
That 46% is not a phoney number as it is taken from those that did file fed tax forms and did not pay any taxes. I am likely one of those as I have often filed and then got a tax refund as I had paid when I should not have according to the IRS.

This is all more of why we should have a rewrite of our tax codes so that those millionaires could get stopped from paying no more taxes just as well. Wasn't GE one of those high earning companies that paid little or no taxes? Well, if not GE, there are those that do not pay taxes.

We do need a new tax code as nobody should have the opportunity to skip paying taxes. Even the poorest earners should expect to pay a very small amount to the nations taxes. As the income does go up then the tax percentage should go up too.

To lay all this poverty and such on the hands of the Republican is as wrong as wrong can be. It is not the Democrats or the Republicans that are causing our problems. It is the politicians of either voting group. Figuring the Presidential control gives, since FDR/Truman, Democrats 28 years till Obama is gone and 32 years for the Republicans. Now in those years we had contrary politics running the congress. I just do not get that one party or the other is the problem. It is the politics being pushed during those years. The last two years of G W Bush were run by a Democrat congress and in both those years the budget was running further and further into debt and it just continued as Obama took over and has been pushing debt like crazy. When the Republicans tried to stop his debt spending the Obama bunch just shut down some government agencies till the Republicans had to relent. Can't wait till we get a new crew in Washington. Be it Democrat or Republican it will never be as bad for the US as the current government is.
 
I am not too rich for being on this thread, but I do believe we have far too much going on for those unemployed folks. The well and fit should always be encouraged to go get a job of some sort. They should not be just sitting around waiting for that perfect job for them to take.

For those without money we have always had free, or heavily discounted, medical for the low income or poor, and even out of country folks could get taken care of. Get into a emergency room at a hospital and your care would take place. Once they knew you were going to live they then checked for money. Care came first. That is how so many of the illegal Mexicans have gotten medical help. With children, enroll them in a nearby school. Again, that is how so many of the illegal Mexican children have gotten educated, learned English, got high school degrees and some went on to college. Those were our tax dollars being spent to help the unfortunate ones get moved ahead. We spend lots of our tax dollars with our open doors. We need to close our borders for real, move those already here along but make any more go through the proper channels if they want to arrive and become Americans.

This country is not too cheap too take care of those in need. But we really should make sure they earned their US help by being legitimately in the country.
 
Presently, there are almost 75,000 pages in the IRS Tax Cods....99% of which are tax dodges and loopholes for the wealthy and the corporations. Massive Corporations, such as Apple, pay virtually NO Corporate Taxes. The highest tax bracket for individuals is 38.6%....but I doubt that any of the wealthy pay anywhere near that amount. The Politicians have done a very good job of protecting the assets of their most generous campaign donors.

Then, we have the issue of so many good paying manufacturing jobs having gone offshore in recent decades...leaving millions of US workers with minimum opportunities for making a decent wage. Between off shoring, and automation, manufacturing jobs in the U.S. are decreasing rapidly. This has been the backbone of the Middle Class for decades, and these job losses are turning this nation into a 2 class society...the rich, and those barely getting by.

There is, and always has been, that percentage of "hanger on's" who have found that qualifying for the various government welfare programs pays better than most entry level jobs.
 
QuickSilver said:
This is what I mean... People use examples like this to generalize the poor to be ungrateful and undeserving and therefore ease one's own conscience for wanting to cut programs and safety nets.
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Back off ! I didn't do any such thing. I don't generalize anyone. I was simply making a comment of something that happened that I found humorous. If I have an opinion on something, you'll know it. You won't have to say I mean what I don't mean.
 
"Homelessness and poverty does not automatically mean that you have to live on the street"

Shalimar: As I said, I call it as I see it. Not implying that poverty means life on the street. See, my wife & I, despite years of constant employment by us both, have combined income which places us BELOW the Federally-declared poverty level. Despite that, we have never asked for, nor received, any form of compensation of any kind not earned as income. No food stamps, no welfare help, ever. The ONLY help we ever received was the "sliding fee" help for medical work while living in rural Missouri. imp
 
BobF said:
I am not too rich for being on this thread, but I do believe we have far too much going on for those unemployed folks. The well and fit should always be encouraged to go get a job of some sort. They should not be just sitting around waiting for that perfect job for them to take.

For those without money we have always had free, or heavily discounted, medical for the low income or poor, and even out of country folks could get taken care of. Get into a emergency room at a hospital and your care would take place. Once they knew you were going to live they then checked for money. Care came first. That is how so many of the illegal Mexicans have gotten medical help. With children, enroll them in a nearby school. Again, that is how so many of the illegal Mexican children have gotten educated, learned English, got high school degrees and some went on to college. Those were our tax dollars being spent to help the unfortunate ones get moved ahead. We spend lots of our tax dollars with our open doors. We need to close our borders for real, move those already here along but make any more go through the proper channels if they want to arrive and become Americans.

This country is not too cheap too take care of those in need. But we really should make sure they earned their US help by being legitimately in the country.
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And what do you suggest if there just ARE no jobs? Or at least jobs that pay a wage where people can support themselves or their kids? ANd don't say, "Get two or three jobs" There aren't that many jobs available.... and anyway... what happens to kids and family lives if parents are away at work 80 pr 90 hours a week? Who takes care of the kids? or do they just run the streets? It's always so easy for people to offer glib answers, when the problems are bigger and deeper than some would care to believe.
 
Red said:
Back off ! I didn't do any such thing. I don't generalize anyone. I was simply making a comment of something that happened that I found humorous. If I have an opinion on something, you'll know it. You won't have to say I mean what I don't mean.
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Excuse me..? BACK OFF? HAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! good one!!
 
QuickSilver said:
And what do you suggest if there just ARE no jobs? Or at least jobs that pay a wage where people can support themselves or their kids? ANd don't say, "Get two or three jobs" There aren't that many jobs available.... and anyway... what happens to kids and family lives if parents are away at work 80 pr 90 hours a week? Who takes care of the kids? or do they just run the streets? It's always so easy for people to offer glib answers, when the problems are bigger and deeper than some would care to believe.
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As it goes these days there are jobs to be had. Just not many of those high paid with lots of benefits jobs that once were plentiful. So for now they should take what they can get and try to make ends meet the best they can. Just like others have done over the years in the US. In the 1960's that is exactly what I had to do. Including travel to where ever the work was. I grew up in Ohio but when those plants went silent I took jobs in neighbor cities. When those jobs went quiet I found a job in Mississippi. Not big money, but money coming in to me. A year later I left Mississippi and traveled to Florida, thinking of at least maybe some seasonal work. Did not happen so went back to Ohio. Some short jobs but finally decided to try California. Started in San Diego and visited a friend. Unfortunately the government had recently shut down some contracts. Moved up to Los Angeles and stayed with a home town friend now living there. Jobs were pick up types. Go to a work place entry gate and if any jobs available you got one. No contracts or anything, work as best possible and never know when gone. So I move on up to San Jose and again knew of some home town folks. They introduced me to 'contract' workers. It worked fine for me and eventually through the contract experience I got a good job in a big name company and worked and retired from their business 28 years later.

It becomes a do as best as you can and try to outlive the bad times with experience gained and some money coming into the pocket. Sitting and waiting for the government to find you a job and paying your bills at the same time just makes no sense at all.

Over those years I worked in making grinding wheels, tires and inner tubes, construction, and mechanical drafting. After finally getting a firm hire in a major company I was allowed to expand into management style jobs and did machine testing in a product test area. My life changed as the work changed and while in the Bay Area I met a young lady that became my wife.

No job. Do many things that will help feed you and help you grow into different career maybe.

Sit on your butt and wait and you end up with nothing much at all.
 
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