This Shooting Thing is TOO Much

L

Lon

Well-known Member
Location
Central California
I don't have any solution to what seems to be a pandemic of kids shooting other kids, cops being shot and killed and it's every day now it seems.
 

The NRA seems to love it as long as a gun is used and they can defend it.
 

It seems to be the new culture now. Many people think the violent video games, social media (bullying and put-downs), violent music lyrics and decline of family and role models are part of the problem. Years ago, kids would just have a fist fight, talk to a friend or counselor, talk to their moms or dads about problems and ask advice.

Another issue is the drugging of these kids nowadays. They're taking some normal behavior, or just some kids that are more excitable than others, and they're putting them on Ritalin, Prozac, even Xanax. When the dose no longer dopes the kid up enough to calm him down, they'll increase the dosage or jump to another prescription drug with serious side effects. All these kids that are diagnosed with ADD, ADHD, depression, etc. are given drugs that alter their minds and many times cause either suicide or homicide.

Anti-gun folks like to jump all over these cases for preach about how bad guns are, but like others have mentioned repeatedly, these instances all happen in gun-free zones, so there's no hope of stopping a shooter and saving an innocent victim. There are people who are careless with their guns, and do not store them properly around these kids also. Most gun owners are responsible, but that doesn't make headlines.

Many families have owned guns for many years without incident, the other reasons which lead to this behavior now should be addressed, not ignored.
 
Most gun owners are responsible, but that doesn't make headlines.
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A chain is only as strong as the weakest link.

Many families have owned guns for many years without incident, the other reasons which lead to this behavior now should be addressed, not ignored.
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Totally agree with one modification - all the reasons that lead to this behaviour need to be looked at dispassionately and without preconceptions.

First define the problem then look for all the possible causes. That's the start of problem solving.
Then comes experimenting with different solutions to see whether they are effective singly or in combination.

Too many people try to fit their favourite solution to a problem that they don't really understand because they haven't examined it properly in the first place.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Totally agree with one modification - all the reasons that lead to this behaviour need to be looked at dispassionately and without preconceptions.

First define the problem then look for all the possible causes. That's the start of problem solving.
Then comes experimenting with different solutions to see whether they are effective singly or in combination.

Too many people try to fit their favourite solution to a problem that they don't really understand because they haven't examined it properly in the first place.
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I agree, none of it has been properly examined, that's part of the problem. These things were not issues in the past, shootings like this were not issues in the past. Something is going on in the present that needs to be addressed.


Latest shooter's social media posts...http://heavy.com/news/2014/10/jaylen-fryberg-pilchuck-high-school-shooting/


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Back to the fact that these mass shootings are done by mentally ill people who are under the influence of prescription anti-psychotic, anti-depressant drugs which cause violent behavior and homicidal/suicidal tendencies...what's unfortunate is although most of Texas has the right to concealed carry, the military at this facility are not permitted to protect themselves, regardless of the previous shootings there. Updates of this old listing to be sure, not going to beat this issue to death.


• Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

• Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

• Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

• Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

• Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

• Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

• Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

• Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

• A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

• Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

• A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

• Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

• TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

• Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

• James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

• Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

• Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

• Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

• Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

• Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

• Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

• Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

• Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

• Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

• Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

• Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

• Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)
• Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

• Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

• Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

• Woody __, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

• A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

• Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

• Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazepine.

• Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

• Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

• Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

• Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.
Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

• What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?

• What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado? (ZOLOFT)

• What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?

• What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct?

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039752_ma...#ixzz2fHaNGdNo

The media likes to downplay the severe effects of these psychiatric drugs, because it is not in the best financial interests of the pharmaceutical companies, and in the end, it's all about the money...http://www.prisonplanet.com/media-bu...y-shooter.html


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Violent music...http://www.complex.com/music/2013/0...-songs-of-all-time/mobb-deep-shook-ones-pt-ii
 
Butterfly said:
Surely you do not really believe that the NRA (no matter what you think of them) applauds the shooting of children by other children, or the actions of other spree killers!

What are some real examples of the NRA's "loving it" as it pertains to this kind of behavior??
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No.. I don't think the NRA is celebrating dead kids... What I DO think is that they see each mass shooting as a way to convince "good" people to purchase more guns and ammo... by telling them they can prevent these killings.. Remember the slogan "The way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".. AND anything that sells more guns to increase the profits of the gun manufactureres is what the NRA loves... WHY? because the NRA stopped being representative of the average gun owner and hunter, and is now a front for the large gun and ammo manufacturers.. WHY? because they are the ones that support the NRA with $$$$... to advance their cause. Unfortunately... money ALWAYS talks..
 
QuickSilver said:
No.. I don't think the NRA is celebrating dead kids... What I DO think is that they see each mass shooting as a way to convince "good" people to purchase more guns and ammo... by telling them they can prevent these killings..
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An in turn, I think the anti-gunners see each of these unfortunate 'mass' shootings as another opportunity to open their dialog against gun ownership, and further their agenda. It's a shame to hear of these tragedies, and I wish the causes were addressed by those who 'care'. Also emphasis to call even the shooting of one person in a public gun-free zone a "mass" shooting, another fear tactic, IMO.
 
Davey Jones said:
The NRA seems to love it as long as a gun is used and they can defend it.
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I don't know what that means, but I do know that responsible gun owners shudder when there's a rash of shootings, knowing full well that the gun-control politicians will be scrambling to throw together yet another round of gun restricting legislation.
 
I don't know what that means, but I do know that responsible gun owners shudder when there's a rash of shootings, knowing full well that the gun-control politicians will be scrambling to throw together yet another round of gun restricting legislation.
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A conflict of emotions?
Love of children versus love of guns?
Tough call for some and a no brainer for others.

However, death does tend to concentrate the mind.

It is still too soon to reflect on Sandy Hook in a calm and rational way?
When is the right time to look at the various laws across the country with
the aim of establishing some uniformity in the interest of greater safety for everyone?
 
I think we need to clean up the local Police Dept. first, seems like they want to shoot anyone, at any time now, they need to be held to the same standard as any American. I just can't understand why people are putting up with this.
 
Yes, they look pretty scary to me and I am all for law enforcement.

What scares me the most is the aggression that they seem to show to everyone they stop, with guns drawn and loud shouting.
That poor pregnant lady who was in labor is just one example of what I mean.
I do know that her husband was speeding but he was panicking and he did ring the emergency number.
I'm just glad that everything worked out OK on that occasion.

I'd hate to think that I, as a 71 year old woman, would ever be on the receiving end of such treatment.
If they shouted at me to lie on the ground I wouldn't be able to do it quickly at all.
 
SeaBreeze said:
An in turn, I think the anti-gunners see each of these unfortunate 'mass' shootings as another opportunity to open their dialog against gun ownership, and further their agenda. It's a shame to hear of these tragedies, and I wish the causes were addressed by those who 'care'. Also emphasis to call even the shooting of one person in a public gun-free zone a "mass" shooting, another fear tactic, IMO.
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That is absolute nonsense.
 
Crooks are going to get guns if they want them, regardless. So as a head of a household should I be denied a gun to protect my family? This is the argument that I address to those who beleive in gun control where only the police can get guns. I do beleive that background checks should be done before a gun is sold. But this has never stopped a criminal from getting guns if they want them. Just like it doesn't stop "meth', "crack", etc. from being sold on the street. I do beleive that no one has mentioned the fact that alot of crime is done by those who will do what it takes to get "their fix." If we could address this issue with some solution it would help. But I realize that I am living in a time when this is not likely to happen. As long as there is a demand there will be a supplier. The Love of Money is the root of all evil. Not money, just making it first and foremost.
 
Just plain me said:
Crooks are going to get guns if they want them, regardless. So as a head of a household should I be denied a gun to protect my family? This is the argument that I address to those who beleive in gun control where only the police can get guns. I do beleive that background checks should be done before a gun is sold. But this has never stopped a criminal from getting guns if they want them. Just like it doesn't stop "meth', "crack", etc. from being sold on the street. I do beleive that no one has mentioned the fact that alot of crime is done by those who will do what it takes to get "their fix." If we could address this issue with some solution it would help. But I realize that I am living in a time when this is not likely to happen. As long as there is a demand there will be a supplier. The Love of Money is the root of all evil. Not money, just making it first and foremost.
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I'm not sure how this nonsense gets started... well, actually, I AM sure.. The NRA has done it's damndest to instill fear in gun owners, by stoking the falsehood that someone is "coming to take your guns away". NO ONE is advocating for taking anyones guns.. The most adamant gun control people would want assault weapons banned... but most.. me included, would like to see background checks, and limits on the size of clips and magazines available.. Nobody needs a 100 round magazine for home protection. Also, we would like to see a ban on "strawman" purchases, where a person can go into a gun show and buy an unlimited amount of firearms and can legally turn around and sell them in the parking lot.... to anyone, with no background check. Does ANY of that sound like a black helicopter is going to land on you lawn and take your gun? OR prevent you from buying more?
 
QuickSilver said:
No.. I don't think the NRA is celebrating dead kids... What I DO think is that they see each mass shooting as a way to convince "good" people to purchase more guns and ammo... by telling them they can prevent these killings.. Remember the slogan "The way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".. AND anything that sells more guns to increase the profits of the gun manufactureres is what the NRA loves... WHY? because the NRA stopped being representative of the average gun owner and hunter, and is now a front for the large gun and ammo manufacturers.. WHY? because they are the ones that support the NRA with $$$$... to advance their cause. Unfortunately... money ALWAYS talks..
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Ya forgot the NRA has most of Congress in their pockets.
 
Davey Jones said:
Ya forgot the NRA has most of Congress in their pockets.
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No, I haven't forgotten at all.. that goes without saying... That's where their power comes from.. The huge contributions to political campaigns come from the money the NRA gets from gun manufacturers. They couldn't have the power they have without the $$$ and Congress scared $hiitless of them scoring any votes for gun sanity, and instituting a primary challenge and negative ads against anyone who doesn't do their bidding. All the more reason to pass a Constitutional amendment to repeal the Citizen's United ruling and get money out of politics.
 
I agree with you QuickSilver on some level. But my grandson was hit by a car, on purpose and left lying in the middle of the road this summer. So should we consider a car a weapon? I think a person who wants to do harm to someone is going to find a way. I agree with the "assualt ban". But who says it is going to stop there.Given the idiots we have in office over-all, are you willing to let your goverment handle the problem. I don't know the answer but some of the main problem with me is that big goverment is taking to much of our individual freedoms away. Okay. I think each should read this page. Some bills are good. Some are not. Read and then tell me, which bills you would support and which one you would not and why? Here is the page:http://poorrichardsnews.com/post/42512452855/there-are-31-gun-control-bills-active-in-congress-right
 
Just plain me said:
I agree with you QuickSilver on some level. But my grandson was hit by a car, on purpose and left lying in the middle of the road this summer. So should we consider a car a weapon? I think a person who wants to do harm to someone is going to find a way. I agree with the "assualt ban". But who says it is going to stop there.Given the idiots we have in office over-all, are you willing to let your goverment handle the problem. I don't know the answer but some of the main problem with me is that big goverment is taking to much of our individual freedoms away. Okay. I think each should read this page. Some bills are good. Some are not. Read and then tell me, which bills you would support and which one you would not and why? Here is the page:http://poorrichardsnews.com/post/42512452855/there-are-31-gun-control-bills-active-in-congress-right
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OK... if you want to compare guns to cars.. Let's do it. Cars are MUCH more regulated than Guns. You have to pass a drivers test to drive one. You have to have your drivers license renewed and sometimes you are required to be retested... You HAVE to have liability insurance on your car in case someone is injured or you do damage to property. Your car is registered to you by its serial number. The government is aware of who owns each and every vehicle in the country! So I'm all for treating guns the same as we treat cars.. Is that what you REALLY meant?
 
Sure would like to hear from our member "911", the retired PA State Trooper concerning law enforcement shootings. As for me, I don't criticize law enforcement shootings at all b/c none of us, other than perhaps "911", has been in the situation of "shoot or be shot" or as the Marine Corp and Army teaches "kill or be killed". When an officer's life is in danger, his service revolver is his protection! When an officer tells a person to do something, that person is required to do what he/she is told.

What I also see is.........a WHOLE LOT of anger, and even hatred, in today's society.

Where is that member, 911, when I need him? :)
 
What does this have to do with the topic of mass killings? Has anyone said cops shouldn't be armed?
 

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