Thoughts on life without parole

[bobcat]

Well, years ago, they used to have penal colonies where the environment itself acted as a prison. They were remote islands surrounded by shark infested waters and essentially no means of escape. They were tightly controlled by a warden and guards, and prisoners were forced to work, but they weren't working around society, so there was no danger.

There probably were some gangs in the prison that were allowed, but nothing too radical. Anyway, I could maybe see that model where they had to work but kept separate from civil life. Most penal colonies were likely abandoned in favor of our current system, but unfortunately that hasn't worked out so well.

 

[TeePee]

The cost of putting some of these criminals back on the street is more expensive than keeping them in prison. I think the safety of law abiding citizens is worth more than the estimated $60,000 it costs to keep them off of the street.

 

[TeePee]

I think we need to go back to mental health hospitals to house mentally ill patients and convicts they turn loose on the streets. I think the facilities need monitored better than they had been in the past to deter potential patient abuse. If it's inhumane to house the insane or mentally unstable criminals with the general population in a prison, then it's inhumane to turn them loose on the streets where they could get hurt or potentially hurt others. Whether the criminals are in prison or in a mental health hospital, it's going to be expensive either way you go.

 

[hollydolly]

I think we need to go back to mental health hospitals to house mentally ill patients and convicts they turn loose on the streets. I think the facilities need monitored better than they had been in the past to deter potential patient abuse. If it's inhumane to house the insane or mentally unstable criminals with the general population in a prison, then it's inhumane to turn them loose on the streets where they could get hurt or potentially hurt others. Whether the criminals are in prison or in a mental health hospital, it's going to be expensive either way you go.

without a shadow of a doubt, I couldn't agree more...

 

[hollydolly]

Well, years ago, they used to have penal colonies where the environment itself acted as a prison. They were remote islands surrounded by shark infested waters and essentially no means of escape. They were tightly controlled by a warden and guards, and prisoners were forced to work, but they weren't working around society, so there was no danger.

There probably were some gangs in the prison that were allowed, but nothing too radical. Anyway, I could maybe see that model where they had to work but kept separate from civil life. Most penal colonies were likely abandoned in favor of our current system, but unfortunately that hasn't worked out so well.

 

[bobcat]

Perhaps a tiered system could work best. High risk prisoners in one prison, and they could produce digital work or something from their cells. After 5 yrs or so of satisfactory behavior, they could be moved to a medium security, which would be more of a factory situation where they could work, learn skills, and a third of their earnings go for restitution, a third towards their care, and a third for when they get out.

If they do well there, they could perhaps be moved to a minimum security where they could do work in society like clearing brush, fighting fires, erosion control, installing signage, repairing walkways, etc... More low risk, high supervision, and public service. IDK, just thoughts.

 

[Murrmurr]

As I read the OP, it made me wonder. If a person knows they will never get out and are the type to
be a short fused bully and murder someone while serving LWOP do they ever get a re-sentence for
the death penalty under new charges?

Yes.

If a person serving LWOP is truly distressed about it and would rather have had a death sentence,
would/could that entice them to commit a murder especially if they were the target of hate and abuse.

Yes. And there have been cases where inmates appealed their life sentence and requested a death sentence, and I'm pretty sure 2 or 3 appeals judges did hear the matter, but the request has never been granted (in the US). Those cases are usually thrown out.

I can't fathom the mindset to the degree inmates have to live with daily.
I can sure picture where a LWOP sentence could sure push some further into a violent life inside. Like:
what do I have to lose?

Exactly. And in a lot of prisons, it's in a convict's favor to have a reputation for violence and resilience to violence.

 

[RambleTamble]

The solution today with telecommunications and oversight could be isolation on remote tropical islands where a skeleton police force with public oversight, monitors activities but generally allows inmates to run the place and enforce their own laws as long as it remains reasonably civil and democratic, without gang development. Some may have an ability to eventually leave for legal reason and would maybe not be just lifers but also include those with multi decade sentences society doesn't trust ever letting out like many sex and or drug criminals, and hopelessly mentally deranged persons.

All inmates would have a public record of what they do while there. They would have to grow their own foods, build their own shelters, have their own schools, and learn to cooperatively work together manning all types of occupations necessary for a small isolated community.

Would use technology to eliminate the possibility of using aircraft, ships, or submarines to escape and some supplies like medical would be brought in. Thus, much less cost to the rest of us. Would leave the many details to professionals who could figure out how to make it work without costing the rest of us like incarceration does now.

Australia began as a penal colony for GB back in the 1700s.

 

[hollydolly]

Australia began as a penal colony for GB back in the 1700s.

yep so a great many Australians have convicts as they're great great grandparents...

That's not to say they were terrible criminals.. some as young as 12 or 13 were sent off to the colonies for minor crimes, like stealing a loaf of bread.. ...

..but look how it all turned out for them eventually.. one of the best countries in the world today

 

[TeePee]

Those were interesting documentaries. It's unimaginable. I'd rather be dead than live in any of those conditions.

 

[hollydolly]

Those were interesting documentaries. It's unimaginable. I'd rather be dead than live in any of those conditions.

that's the whole idea... so you would think that these people, knowing what they're going to face if they get caught breaking the law...wouldn't do it.. you'd think it would be a major deterrent.. but it seems not !

 

[retiredtraveler]

Soylent Green or composting.

 

[Ted01]

His is a story of redemption. He is always remorseful for the pain he caused and refuses any early release. Meanwhile he runs a ministry from prison and I have even ordered and distributed tracts he created to inmates of the Bible study I do at the county jail. For his story see David Berkowitz's Testimony

Awesome testimony, @Michael Z!!
Thanks for posting it.

 

[TeePee]

that's the whole idea... so you would think that these people, knowing what they're going to face if they get caught breaking the law...wouldn't do it.. you'd think it would be a major deterrent.. but it seems not !

It must not be a deterrent. You can't do what these people did and have a conscience. You have to have a conscience to understand the concept of having a deterrent.

 

[HoneyNut]

You have to have a conscience to understand the concept of having a deterrent.

Also things like Fetal Alcohol Syndrome can cause an inability to understand cause and effect. When I was doing foster care one of the kids I cared for had a brother with FAS and even tho he was a cute little two year old, the county was having a lot of trouble finding him a permanent home.

 

[Irishdude]

That sounds pretty cheap considering that is housing, food, healthcare.

I have doubts that the for-profit prison system is doing any effort to treat patients' mental illnesses and rehabilitate where possible, they have a profit motive to just hang onto prisoners for as long as they can.

I've heard that AI will be providing us all with 'friends' that we will love, so maybe there could be AI friend-therapist companionship for prisoners that might help some portion of them enough that they can re-enter society. Assuming they don't subvert the AI into joining them in crime!

I feel like more property crimes should be penalized like in the Bible, with the criminal having to pay the victim four or five times the value of the property. I'd be leaving my keys in my car if we had that system.

For-profit prisons hold fewer than ten percent of the prison population and most of those are juvenile centers, immigrant holding areas and other non-violent facilities.

To me, the real problem is how we deal with first offenders. The system is set up to turn them into hardened criminals. A first offense, especially a non-violent one, ought to be an opportunity for rehabilitation, mental health treatment, job training, education and a lot of other helpful things. Keep them out of prison and prevent them from becoming "lifers" or repeat offenders.

 

[Nathan]

That sounds pretty cheap considering that is housing, food, healthcare.

I have doubts that the for-profit prison system is doing any effort to treat patients' mental illnesses and rehabilitate where possible, they have a profit motive to just hang onto prisoners for as long as they can.

I've heard that AI will be providing us all with 'friends' that we will love, so maybe there could be AI friend-therapist companionship for prisoners that might help some portion of them enough that they can re-enter society. Assuming they don't subvert the AI into joining them in crime!

I feel like more property crimes should be penalized like in the Bible, with the criminal having to pay the victim four or five times the value of the property. I'd be leaving my keys in my car if we had that system.

I can say from first hand observation that the inmate is the 'cash cow' in privatized prisons. Profit first- private prisons have sub-standard training for their custody staff, and the bare, legal minimum in health care.

 

[hollydolly]

It must not be a deterrent. You can't do what these people did and have a conscience. You have to have a conscience to understand the concept of having a deterrent.

no not necessarily so.. not everyone in prison serving a life sentence is a cold blooded killer... some have mitigating circumstances....

 

[CaliS]

My thoughts on life without parole depends on the crime.

I do believe, if a child molester is caught in the act / 100% no question guilty - He should face the firing squad. I do not believe anyone that can do that is capable of rehabilitation and spending tax dollars to feed and house them is a waste of money. My 2 cents.

 

[Aunt Bea]

I can say from first hand observation that the inmate is the 'cash cow' in privatized prisons. Profit first- private prisons have sub-standard training for their custody staff, and the bare, legal minimum in health care.

It’s not much different in our state run institutions.

There was an inmates cell fire in one of our local prisons recently, 11 corrections officers were hospitalized but no inmates required medical treatment. I find that pretty amazing considering that the fire started in an inmates cell surrounded by other inmates cells.

 

[911]

In my opinion, our prisoners that are sitting in their cells right now are where they belong.

Pennsylvania does separate prisoners if any are deemed to be mentally ill.
Pennsylvania prisoners entering the system undergo assessments including mental health screenings and psychological evaluations during intake at Diagnostic & Classification Centers (DCCs) to identify mental illness and needs, using standardized tools and professional interviews to place them in appropriate housing and treatment, though the system for complex cases has faced scrutiny.
In Pennsylvania, prisoners with mental illness, instead of going to prison might enter court-ordered treatment via Mental Health Diversion or Mental Health Courts and are placed in specialized prison units.

It’s possible that they may receive community-based treatment while under probation, or if deemed incompetent wait for hospitalization, although it very well may take weeks or months before the person could get a bed. Getting a bed isn’t the easiest thing to do in our mental hospitals. The system uses diversion programs, specialized housing within correctional facilities, and court-monitored community treatment to avoid traditional incarceration for some, but faces challenges with sufficient treatment facilities.

As for the others that were or are marked as being competent, they are where they belong. These people should not be on the streets walking among us. Just last week, an inspection of the prison took place at 1 of the state prisons. It was a complete shakedown. Every cell was taken apart. Just in the 1 prison over 300 weapons were confiscated.

Say what you want and/or think what you want, prisons housing inmates for lifers are well worth the expense is per person. None of these inmates that have killed have ever shown remorse. They tell each other how they killed their victim and laugh about it. If one of your parents, brother, sister, wife or husband was killed, you would agree that keeping the prisoner locked up is a good idea.

 

[chic]

I think life in prison without the possibility of parole would be a far worse fate than death.

 

[SeaBreeze]

From what I've read transporting prisoners is one of the riskiest operations. A lot can go wrong outside prison walls, and especially putting tools in the hands of violent people. Plus you need to pay for and have fleets of maintained security vehicles, and you have to pull plenty of guards away from their jobs at the prison just to supervise them.

Most often the cost of the procedure is more expensive than the work achieved, and besides they have to be trained unless they are just picking up litter or something. Probably most high risk prisoners would see it as a prison break opportunity, and they can be pretty clever.

All good points!

 

[TeePee]

I think life in prison without the possibility of parole would be a far worse fate than death.

I do too!

 

[TeePee]

Also things like Fetal Alcohol Syndrome can cause an inability to understand cause and effect. When I was doing foster care one of the kids I cared for had a brother with FAS and even tho he was a cute little two year old, the county was having a lot of trouble finding him a permanent home.

You are right. There are exceptions. FAS is a sad condition to be born with. There are so many sad conditions that some people had no choice of being born into, and they have to pay the price for how their parents brought them into this world. It's a vicious cycle because who knows what conditions their parents were brought into this world under. I'm not making excuses for the ones who've made bad decisions but there has to be a civil way of dealing with them before they get out of control. I don't know if that made any sense. Sometimes I have a hard time expressing myself.