Twisters, "people so bent they can't lie straight in bed"!

[grahamg]

There are some people, "I'm told", who are so bent they "cannot even lie straight in bed"!

This does not necessarily have to be financially, more likely not dishonest in that way, just prepared to deceive at every opportunity.

I remember my father using the phrase quite often about "cattle dealers", (these days maybe real estate sellers or lawyers have the same reputation). My father used to fulminate against those from a certain religious sect, as being " Sunday saints, and Monday devils", (Mondays being market days, where the people he's referring to could not be trusted in business he felt).

There we are, a new thread, touching on any aspect of life where people aren't always going to be straight, emotionally, argumentatively, baring false witness, taking advantage of you, especially if you are naive!

They say "All's fair in love and war", don't they, but please take the thread wherever you want. !

 

[Ruthanne]

Well, all people have different facets to them and I'd rather, at this time, just try to see the good in them.

 

[grahamg]

Well, all people have different facets to them and I'd rather, at this time, just try to see the good in them.

Here is some research in support of your view:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...01308/are-most-people-dishonest-thankfully-no

Quote:
"A quick read of the psychology literature may not seem to paint any better of a picture about our characters. For instance, in my last post I mentioned a study by the psychologists Edward Diener at the University of Illinois and Mark Wallbom at the University of Washington where participants were taking a test with the explicit instruction to not go more than five minutes. The experimenter then set a timer bell for five minutes, left the room, and watched what happened through a two-way mirror. 71% of participants kept going after the bell sounded – hardly a display of honest behavior on their part.

But the more I read studies about cheating, the more I am convinced that – for most of us at least – our characters are not so bad after all, and in particular they are not best described as being dishonest. For instance, I neglected to mention that in the same study, there was also a separate group of participants, where each one would take the same test in the same room, except that this time the person was seated directly in front of a two-way mirror and, “thus saw themselves whenever they glanced up”. The result? Only 7% of participants cheated. This is a startling difference – 71% versus 7%, where the only difference is the presence of a mirror in front of the participants."

 

[grahamg]

An alternative view:

Quote:
"Everyone lies. Honest. Each of us will tell at least two lies per day. Generally, these are small lies of little consequence. We could be answering a question such as “do I look too fat in this top?” Answering honestly might not be a good idea in some instances….! Equally, your boss might ask “have you looked at those figures I sent you?” and you might respond, “yes, and I am going to send you an email about them later”. You then hurry back to your desk to quickly look at the figures you haven’t actually seen yet.

People lie all the time. They do it to avoid conflict or to protect themselves from ridicule or embarrassment. Most people lie at work and most do not feel guilty about it. However, when you tell fibs to your boss or colleagues they might know about it."

https://www.business2community.com/...y-to-tell-lies-or-be-truthful-online-02072756

 

[grahamg]

One more view and I'm done:

Quote:
"To our surprise, our pet theories failed to stand up. Treachery, we found, can pay. There is no compelling economic reason to tell the truth or keep one’s word—punishment for the treacherous in the real world is neither swift nor sure.

Honesty is, in fact, primarily a moral choice. Business people do tell themselves that, in the long run, they will do well by doing good. But there is little factual or logical basis for this conviction. Without values, without a basic preference for right over wrong, trust based on such self-delusion would crumble in the face of temptation.

Most of us choose virtue because we want to believe in ourselves and have others respect and believe in us. When push comes to shove, hard-headed business folk usually ignore (or fudge) their dollars-and-cents calculations in order to keep their word.

And for this, we should be happy. We can be proud of a system in which people are honest because they want to be, not because they have to be. Materially, too, trust based on morality provides great advantages. It allows us to join in great and exciting enterprises that we could never undertake if we relied on economic incentives alone."

Economists and game theorists tell us that trust is enforced in the marketplace through retaliation and reputation. If you violate a trust, your victim is apt to seek revenge and others are likely to stop doing business with you, at least under favorable terms. A man or woman with a reputation for fair dealing will prosper. Therefore, profit maximizers are honest.

This sounds plausible enough until you look for concrete examples. Cases that apparently demonstrate the awful consequences of abusing trust turn out to be few and weak, while evidence that treachery can pay seems compelling."

https://hbr.org/1990/09/why-be-honest-if-honesty-doesnt-pay

 

[Keesha]

Oh my head.

 

[Fyrefox]

When I saw the thread title of “Twisters,” I thought that it was going to be about contortionists, victims of renegade chiropractors, or a 1960’s dance craze...

 

[grahamg]

Oh my head.

Here is another one to put your head further into a spin then:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...-scapegoats-and-the-power-words?quicktabs_5=1

 

[grahamg]

Oh my head.

Here is a more restrained/simpler one:

https://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/57/messages/1103.html

 

[grahamg]

When I saw the thread title of “Twisters,” I thought that it was going to be about contortionists, victims of renegade chiropractors, or a 1960’s dance craze...

View attachment 115014

This is fun too:

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/42108/42108-h/images/frontish.png

A CADGER’S MAP OF A BEGGING DISTRICT.

EXPLANATION OF THE HIEROGLYPHICS.​
	No good; too poor, and know too much.
	Stop,—if you have what they want, they will buy. They are pretty “fly” (knowing).
	Go in this direction, it is better than the other road. Nothing that way.
	Bone (good). Safe for a “cold tatur,” if for nothing else. “Cheese your patter” (don’t talk much) here.
	Cooper’d (spoilt) by too many tramps calling there.
	Gammy (unfavourable), likely to have you taken up. Mind the dog.
	Flummuxed (dangerous), sure of a month in “quod,” prison.
	Religious, but tidy on the whole.

 

[jujube]

Like the old saying: "It was so cold today, I saw a politician with his hands in his own pockets."

 

[grahamg]

It would be pretty hard to go through life without telling a few fibs wouldn't it, or at least without "being economical with the truth", (as someone famously said ! ). .

 

[grahamg]

Like the old saying: "It was so cold today, I saw a politician with his hands in his own pockets."

Anyone claim they don't lie at all though, (besides George Washington of course. )? .

 

[jujube]

Well, if I said I never lied, I'd be lying, so there you go...…….

 

[grahamg]

Well, if I said I never lied, I'd be lying, so there you go...…….

My father used to remark, "Its wrong to tell a lie, but they're so handy sometimes"! .
He also said anyone lying to you's story would come unstuck, because it would jar with other things you knew, or found out later.
He used to say this whilst maybe trusting folks a little too much sometimes, (at least according to my mother, who more or less, didn't deliberately lie, but could equally mislead you by withholding things sometimes). .
I accept, btw, you're as honest as you dare to be. (?).

 

[gennie]

Most humans are a little bent. The trick is to not allow your 'bent' to become broken. That's when you use your fakery to the extreme disadvantage of another.

This past decade has brought about an awful lot more 'broke' than I remember in my younger years.

 

[Theresa Flowers]

There are some people, "I'm told", who are so bent they "cannot even lie straight in bed"!

This does not necessarily have to be financially, more likely not dishonest in that way, just prepared to deceive at every opportunity.

I remember my father using the phrase quite often about "cattle dealers", (these days maybe real estate sellers or lawyers have the same reputation). My father used to fulminate against those from a certain religious sect, as being " Sunday saints, and Monday devils", (Mondays being market days, where the people he's referring to could not be trusted in business he felt).

There we are, a new thread, touching on any aspect of life where people aren't always going to be straight, emotionally, argumentatively, baring false witness, taking advantage of you, especially if you are naive!

They say "All's fair in love and war", don't they, but please take the thread wherever you want. !

My mother's best friend as I was growing up was married to a sunday saint and monday devil. He was a deacon in the catholic church h an DC would beat kitty to a pulp. Kitty was moms best friend she had 7 children. Sometimes her and the kids lived with our family. Tragic.

 

[grahamg]

Most humans are a little bent. The trick is to not allow your 'bent' to become broken. That's when you use your fakery to the extreme disadvantage of another.
This past decade has brought about an awful lot more 'broke' than I remember in my younger years.

It has often been said that our world is "full of trickery", everything from the snake oil salesmen celebrated in some films, (Paul Newman and Robert Redford's film comes to mind), to as you say the "extreme" examples of deception. This maybe includes the many people who have experienced being betrayed by a lover or partner, (if not the most extreme form of deception or lying, one of the most painful perhaps).
Cher famously sang you could tell whether you were being betrayed because "Its in his kiss", and some say they can tell by their lover's smile. I'd say forget the kiss, and the smile too can be used by an accomplished liar to deceive, so you need to look at their eyes should you wish to know what's really going on in their minds. .

 

[grahamg]

My mother's best friend as I was growing up was married to a sunday saint and monday devil. He was a deacon in the catholic church h an DC would beat kitty to a pulp. Kitty was moms best friend she had 7 children. Sometimes her and the kids lived with our family. Tragic.

Even those who don't actually beat their spouse, can use psychological means to manipulate or abuse them can't they. Where the dividing line is between those with a good side to their character, who work hard to provide for their families, (and probably care for their children genuinely), but nonetheless do victimise their partner and kids, and those simply displaying normal human frailty or moods, I just don't know(?). .

 

[gennie]

It has often been said that our world is "full of trickery", everything from the snake oil salesmen celebrated in some films, (Paul Newman and Robert Redford's film comes to mind), to as you say the "extreme" examples of deception. This maybe includes the many people who have experienced being betrayed by a lover or partner, (if not the most extreme form of deception or lying, one of the most painful perhaps).
Cher famously sang you could tell whether you were being betrayed because "Its in his kiss", and some say they can tell by their lover's smile. I'd say forget the kiss, and the smile too can be used by an accomplished liar to deceive, so you need to look at their eyes should you wish to know what's really going on in their minds. .

I agree. The eyes are the window to the soul.

 

[grahamg]

One of my former bosses, who owned the smallish company, (under 200 staff), I used to work for twenty years ago, had something to say about truthfulness.

Whilst he demanded truthfulness from those of us working for him in modestly responsible positions, he was quite prepared in his business dealings to mislead sometimes, or even play fast and loose with the truth. I think his justification was a hard nosed business sense he had, that there were times you had to lets say, "present a case to your best advantage", and it might involve lying, especially if there were no other way. A salesperson might tell you the product they retail is so much better than the one produced by a rival company, and if they cant do this they probably are not much of a salesman, given promoting themselves as much as the product is necessary to gain the confidence of the client. Putting out false propaganda against a rival's product, the quality of the service they provided etc., I'm afraid I have to tell you were all fair game, (and I think justified because the rival companies were doing the same to his company and its products).

In the end this company did provide good value for money, the staff worked hard, were very loyal to the owner, and it was a happy ship for most people, myself included, but there was a need to be worldly wise, and I was certainly guilty of withholding damaging information from clients at times, because I believed overall this was the right thing to do, (maybe I even fibbed a little, though luckily my job didn't require all that much interaction with clients). .