Ukraine dared to invade Russia!

jimintoronto said:
Not going to happen. NATO and the USA would be content to give material support and funds to Ukraine. NATO is a military co-operative group, it doesn't allow individual member states to act without the approval of ALL members. Example the NATO intervention in the Balkans in the 1990's
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I meant within the framework of the NATO alliance restrictions, of course.

 
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jimintoronto said:
Not going to happen. NATO and the USA would be content to give material support and funds to Ukraine. NATO is a military co-operative group, it doesn't allow individual member states to act without the approval of ALL members. Example the NATO intervention in the Balkans in the 1990's.
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True. The decision would be subject to NATO approval.
 

jimintoronto said:
The population of Ukraine is 38 million, just a bit smaller than that of Canada. Plus they have been getting massive amounts of weapons and equipment from both NATO and other western countries. This incursion is a two fold operation, to draw Russian forces from other areas, and to make it plain to the Russian people that their country will suffer attacks that Putin is unable to prevent. JIMb.
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Given the perceived power of Russia, the strategies and tenacity employed by Ukraine have been costly but brilliant. Russia and by extension much of the world expected to see Ukraine fall with little or no strength against Putin and his thugs. So far significant internal dissention and high costs in both material and personnel has been very embarrassing to Russia. While I would much rather see the hostilities' come to an end I have to cheer for Ukraine, obviously not the easy target Putin expected.
 
TennVet said:
Given the perceived power of Russia, the strategies and tenacity employed by Ukraine have been costly but brilliant. Russia and by extension much of the world expected to see Ukraine fall with little or no strength against Putin and his thugs. So far significant internal dissention and high costs in both material and personnel has been very embarrassing to Russia. While I would much rather see the hostilities' come to an end I have to cheer for Ukraine, obviously not the easy target Putin expected.
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The other obvious factor is that the Ukrainians are fighting on their OWN land, the Russians are not. An added factor is the large number of Russian soldiers who are surrendering rather than fighting. Putin is now forced to put criminals into to Russian uniforms to fill replacement slots at the front.

The Ukrainian special forces are taking a page from the WW2 era of SOE, using small strikes on important infrastructure to disrupt and disorganize their opponents. It is a lot more cost effective to fly an explosive laden drone air vehicle into a target, than to risk a F16 fighter aircraft. The Russians have reportedly lost 20 of their ships to Ukrainian drone high speed attack boats while their ships were in harbor. The perfect example of a "sitting duck target ". No Ukrainian crew on board the drone boat, but lots of damage to the Russian ship. Fight smarter not harder.
 
Thanks to the invasion of
Tazx said:
Russia does nothing but defend its own people as 90 percent of eastern Ukraine is Russian) and they are the bad ones? How?
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Yes they are the bad ones. When Ukraine gave up its nukes, Russia agreed to honor the existing borders.
if Russia wants to help Russians in Ukraine it could have encouraged them to emigrate to Russia. Instead it sent troops across the border in violation of several treaties.

moving the goal posts to excuse naked aggression and a war that is killing both Russians and Ukrainians does not makes sense. Keep in mind Russia previously took territory away from Georgia. The hand writing is on the wall for anybody to read.

if territorial issues are grounds for war, we could have a plague of wars on every continent on the planet, except for Antarctica, maybe.
 
I imagine Putin thinks invading Russia is unfair.

I'm not sure what Ukraine has in mind, however.
 
TennVet said:
Given the perceived power of Russia, the strategies and tenacity employed by Ukraine have been costly but brilliant. Russia and by extension much of the world expected to see Ukraine fall with little or no strength against Putin and his thugs. So far significant internal dissention and high costs in both material and personnel has been very embarrassing to Russia. While I would much rather see the hostilities' come to an end I have to cheer for Ukraine, obviously not the easy target Putin expected.
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True, no one expected the Ukraine to be able to resist what was then universally considered to have been the Russian military juggernaut. Also, one of the things Putin seemed to be counting on was intimidating NATO into not daring to assist Ukraine via threats of employing his nuclear weapons if NATO became too involved. Had us all worrying about a possible nuclear WWIII for a while. I still have extra food and other emergency items stocked up from that tense time when all hell was threatening to break loose..
 
There is not going to be a peaceful end to this or the stuff going on in the mid-east. If anything, it is going to escalate and very possibly turn into (for want of a better term) WWIII.
 
TennVet said:
Given the perceived power of Russia, the strategies and tenacity employed by Ukraine have been costly but brilliant. Russia and by extension much of the world expected to see Ukraine fall with little or no strength against Putin and his thugs. So far significant internal dissention and high costs in both material and personnel has been very embarrassing to Russia. While I would much rather see the hostilities' come to an end I have to cheer for Ukraine, obviously not the easy target Putin expected.
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I never expected this to happen, and I'm still not placing any bets on the outcome. But my estimation of Putin's military power is a lot less than it once was. The Domino Theory, once accepted as real is now somewhat relegated to the category of propaganda, but I still believe that Putin's goal will not end with the fall of the Ukraine. At some point, he's got to be stopped. I don't think he has any plans of stopping when he's done with Ukraine.
 
Radrook said:
The danger is that if Putin keeps threatening and not responding as he had promised, he will eventually embolden some NATO member nation, or maybe the USA itself to send troops.
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I could never support sending troops to Ukraine, although I have heard we do have some military consultants over there now, which is the same as we did before we invaded Vietnam.

I think if the U.S. would send troops to Ukraine, Putin would look at this as us escalating the war and that would put us at war with Russia. China and Russia have been talking about aligning to allow China to takeover as the world’s number one currency. If those 2 countries would decide to align in war as well, we could be in deep trouble.
 
911 said:
I could never support sending troops to Ukraine, although I have heard we do have some military consultants over there now, which is the same as we did before we invaded Vietnam.

I think if the U.S. would send troops to Ukraine, Putin would look at this as us escalating the war and that would put us at war with Russia. China and Russia have been talking about aligning to allow China to takeover as the world’s number one currency. If those 2 countries would decide to align in war as well, we could be in deep trouble.
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True! That is very unlikely to happen because of the reasons you mentioned.
 
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JustDave said:
I never expected this to happen, and I'm still not placing any bets on the outcome. But my estimation of Putin's military power is a lot less than it once was. The Domino Theory, once accepted as real is now somewhat relegated to the category of propaganda, but I still believe that Putin's goal will not end with the fall of the Ukraine. At some point, he's got to be stopped. I don't think he has any plans of stopping when he's done with Ukraine.
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We all expected the same performance that they became famous for during WWII.
 
US military won't be directly (boots on the ground) entering the battlefield in Ukraine. I honestly think there is a zero chance of that. However, US services, tech, and intelligence is a huge part of it. Where do you think Ukraine is getting all its satellite data from? Around 42 people a day are dying in Ukraine, and that's the tragedy. Russia have embarrassed themselves.
 
VaughanJB said:
US military won't be directly (boots on the ground) entering the battlefield in Ukraine. I honestly think there is a zero chance of that. However, US services, tech, and intelligence is a huge part of it. Where do you think Ukraine is getting all its satellite data from? Around 42 people a day are dying in Ukraine, and that's the tragedy. Russia have embarrassed themselves.
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That is just the point. How much embarrassment is this mentally unbalanced person is able or willing to tolerate. You know, that this mentally unstable Putin character might try to save himself from any further embarrassments by going nuclear after cunningly ensconcing himself along with his cronies in his underground bomb shelter.
 
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