Ukraine dared to invade Russia!

[Tazx]

gruntlabor, when reading the above diatribes I was also wondering how any sovereign nation would be expected to react to 1.) a part or region of their country deciding that they wanted to be separate and independent, and then 2.) how would the expected government of that sovereign nation react if a bordering Sovereign nation then invade that disputed territory?

I look back at the American Civil War and wonder how our government would have reacted, if for example, Mexico decided to invade into the Southern secession states and basically took over that territory and then also decided to attack the Northern (Union) states. To me this is very similar to what has happened in Ukraine. I think most Americans know exactly what would have happened then and would happen today under a similar situation.

It was pointed out in an earlier thread that "They met the threshold set out in the law, and won their individual independence." I find it difficult to believe that a Ukrainian Constitution, or whatever they term their equivalent, would have included laws that would allow a portion of their country to be vote themselves separate and independent. BUT, if there is such a law why would Ukraine then "not like that, and started attacking these regions." This doesn't pass the smell test to me.

Can anyone confirm the wording in Ukraine's laws that anticipated the possibility that part of their sovereign nation could someday want to become independent and, if and when that happens, they can, by Ukrainian law, vote to secede if the majority voted to do so?

Well maybe its not in their constitution, but are not the US, Uk and everyone else proponents of democracy? So, if there is no legal way to do, but the citizenry still voted and decided they wanted to leave, let's say 80-90 percent as mentioned, what happens if they just decided to be independent, then Ukraine attacked them. Would all these countries com running with billions of dollars, military aid and so on? So where do we draw the line. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

But regardless, those regions voted, they wanted to leave, so no matter what democracy should always win. Therefore when Ukraine fired that first shot in Donbass against them, it was illegal. But somehow this dam world turned it around and made the other side the villain.

 

[gruntlabor]

But regardless, those regions voted, they wanted to leave, so no matter what democracy should always win. Therefore when Ukraine fired that first shot in Donbass against them, it was illegal. But somehow this dam world turned it around and made the other side the villain.

Here the rule of law trumps democracy (mob rule).
Maybe those votes to leave Ukraine and take the land with them were viewed as null and void by the rest of the country.

 

[Tazx]

Here the rule of law trumps democracy (mob rule).
Maybe those votes to leave Ukraine and take the land with them were viewed as null and void by the rest of the country.

Maybe, but regardless, to attack your own people with violence, then blame another country is absurd.

 

[gruntlabor]

Maybe, but regardless, to attack your own people with violence, then blame another country is absurd.

I don't know but treason is defined as giving aid and comfort to the enemy and can be punishable by death.

 

[againstthegrain]

The country that attacks "people" are the Russians. Following is just 1 example, there are many others that confirm RU targets civilians and civilian infrastructure.

"Since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, education in the country has been under attack. The full-scale Russian invasion on February 24, 2022 greatly added to the damage and destruction of schools and kindergartens throughout the country and put many children and school staff at risk. The Ukrainian government reported that from February 2022 through October 2023, 3428 educational facilities had been damaged and 365 destroyed. The attacks have had a devastating impact on Ukrainian children’s access to education during the war and likely long after, as the repair and reconstruction of schools, particularly amid other destroyed civilian infrastructure, will require major resources and time."

 

[againstthegrain]

Well documents submitted to the UN, show extensive human and organ trafficking in Ukraine, along with illegal biolabs. Also Ukraine soldiers using schools to setup is dispicable. So the fact maybe some schools targeted by Russia is true.

One thing a lot of people forget is 2 million Ukrainians fled to Poland during the start. We lived in Poland through the covid time, and if you listen to the Ukraine's, they admit Zelensky and the govt is evil.

So just lame “whataboutism” from the RU bot.

He cannot deny RU attacks civilians intentionally.

 

[againstthegrain]

So the fact maybe some schools targeted by Russia is true.

You didn't deny RU attacks against civilians you confirmed it your self, of course you then blamed it on UKr military setting up in schools, which may or may not be true, but even so they were defending THEIR country against an invasion by RU.

 

[Radrook]

The country that attacks "people" are the Russians. Following is just 1 example, there are many others that confirm RU targets civilians and civilian infrastructure.

"Since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, education in the country has been under attack. The full-scale Russian invasion on February 24, 2022 greatly added to the damage and destruction of schools and kindergartens throughout the country and put many children and school staff at risk. The Ukrainian government reported that from February 2022 through October 2023, 3428 educational facilities had been damaged and 365 destroyed. The attacks have had a devastating impact on Ukrainian children’s access to education during the war and likely long after, as the repair and reconstruction of schools, particularly amid other destroyed civilian infrastructure, will require major resources and time."

It is truly heartrending to see how children must suffer the negative consequences of these kinds of adult decisions.