Unvaxxed discrimination?

Alligatorob said:
This has been an interesting process. A lot of decisions had to be made on limited information. At first we thought the virus was going to be worse than it was, or a lot of people did anyway. And the first versions were probably more virulent. Over time it seems to have weakened a bit, and we have learned better how to treat it.

At this point rather than criticizing people and governments for the decisions made I think we should look at what we can learn from the experience. We can be sure more pandemics will happen, and some will be worse, one day much worse than covid. And some that will not be so bad. Better understanding the lessons learned will help us better plan for the next one.

I don't think so, however the fact that you and many others, smart reasonable people, worry about it is a sign that the whole thing was not handled very well. Plenty of others...

I think Canada suffered economically for their decisions, and it created many personal hardships. For example a lot of Canadians have snowbird homes in the US, and a lot of Americans have summer places in Canada in 2021 it was impossible for most of these people to use, or maintain, their own homes. And I know the fishing charter people I went out with in Canada lost a lot of income in 2021 because many of their American clients could not travel. I would not want to second guess Canadian decisions, its not my country, but I would hope people are looking at things like this objectively for the lessons learned.
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We might feel better if there were accountability for these errors of judgement.
 

Alligatorob said:
This has been an interesting process. A lot of decisions had to be made on limited information. At first we thought the virus was going to be worse than it was, or a lot of people did anyway. And the first versions were probably more virulent. Over time it seems to have weakened a bit, and we have learned better how to treat it.

At this point rather than criticizing people and governments for the decisions made I think we should look at what we can learn from the experience. We can be sure more pandemics will happen, and some will be worse, one day much worse than covid. And some that will not be so bad. Better understanding the lessons learned will help us better plan for the next one.

I don't think so, however the fact that you and many others, smart reasonable people, worry about it is a sign that the whole thing was not handled very well. Plenty of others...

I think Canada suffered economically for their decisions, and it created many personal hardships. For example a lot of Canadians have snowbird homes in the US, and a lot of Americans have summer places in Canada in 2021 it was impossible for most of these people to use, or maintain, their own homes. And I know the fishing charter people I went out with in Canada lost a lot of income in 2021 because many of their American clients could not travel. I would not want to second guess Canadian decisions, its not my country, but I would hope people are looking at things like this objectively for the lessons learned.
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"A lot of decisions had to be made on limited information. At first we thought the virus was going to be worse than it was, or a lot of people did anyway. And the first versions were probably more virulent. Over time it seems to have weakened a bit, and we have learned better how to treat it."
^^^^ None of that is an excuse for narrow-minded fools who disrespect others who have different opinions than theirs.
 
Marian said:
Hmmmm…. Just like I have been yelled at for wearing a mask
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I've been asked while standing in a line outside to buy coffee if I didn't know I was free not to wear the mask now. Not unless I'm also free to wear it. People do indeed make a lot of assumptions. My neighbor, after learning we wouldn't be attending his nephew's bday party, came across the street to argue there was no reason not to get on with life now .. not wearing a mask. With mine on, I told him I wasn't interested in hearing his opinions. He, his wife and nephew all came down with Covid at that party. Fine for those capable of taking the drugs which aid recovery and with reasonably immune capacity. But they don't get to get in my face to tell me their worthless opinions.
 
MarkD said:
I've been asked while standing in a line outside to buy coffee if I didn't know I was free not to wear the mask now. Not unless I'm also free to wear it. People do indeed make a lot of assumptions. My neighbor, after learning we wouldn't be attending his nephew's bday party, came across the street to argue there was no reason not to get on with life now .. not wearing a mask. With mine on, I told him I wasn't interested in hearing his opinions. He, his wife and nephew all came down with Covid at that party. Fine for those capable of taking the drugs which aid recovery and with reasonably immune capacity. But they don't get to get in my face to tell me their worthless opinions.
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I've never cared about anyone wearing a mask, or not wearing one, or whether or not they were vaccinated.
I know there are many holier-than-thous who do care & seek reassurance from others who do as they do.
I have elderly friends who know I chose not to get vaccinated. I drove them to get their vaccinations because that's what they wanted.
It's called "Respect for others." Missing in many today.
 
chic said:
I wonder if covid and the covid vaccines were just a trial run for something more insidious? This seemed more about control than our health from the start. They tried to terrify people while they, themselves, were so obviously NOT frightened. An intelligent person could pretty easily figure this out. IMHO.
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You're right. The digital vaccination certificate was the introduction of a complete surveillance.
But there are still other Instruments and all shall lead to a social credit system as in China.
 
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chic said:
Criminal liability.
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I don't think laws were broken. I do however understand you, and others, feel strongly that this was wrong. However just as many or more still believe it was the right thing to do.

Rather than threaten individuals with retribution I think it is better to do our best to look objectively at the experience and try to learn from it.
 
In Germany the unvaccinated were compared with an appendix, that "is not essential for surviving of the whole complex". It was a female comedian who draw the comparison on TV (ZDF, the second national broadcasting corporation)! Decades ago a Nazi doctor compared the Jews with an appendix.
 
Marian said:
I am fortunate. I don’t know anyone who died from Covid…. nor do I know anyone who had any bad side effects or died or was injured from the vaccine.
Many of my friends have had covid at this point. The only ones I know who had to be hospitalized were unvaccinated.
One of my unvaccinated friends always stresses to me that the only people she knows who got covid were vaccinated. She tells me this very smugly.
In my state 95% of people ages 60 and up have been vaccinated , so it makes perfect sense that the only people she knows who got covid were vaccinated!
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May I ask what state you are in? Regarding "95% of people ages 60 and up have been vaccinated".
 
Marian said:
Maryland
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That's right. Your pics are from a park along the Chesapeake. Did I mention I lived in Maryland for three years when I was in 8-10th grades? It was in the area/town? of Camp Springs. I went to Oxon Hill Junior High for grade 8 and then Crossland HS for the next two. I used to bushwhack along Hensen creek all over that area but I only took drivers ed my last year and never had my own wheels there so never got to the area you're photographing. Looks pretty nice. Spent some time in DC though.
 
When Covid started the media went crazy! The propaganda was intense. We were told to stay home or else! The media had all these stories about people dying from Covid-19.

When I think about it, I really don't even know 1 person that died from Covid. Guess it's a sort of media thing. I never got sick and I'm still around even though I haven't worn a mask for the last 2 years. Some folks will believe everything on the media and some folks sure scare easy!
 
Packerjohn said:
When Covid started the media went crazy! The propaganda was intense. We were told to stay home or else! The media had all these stories about people dying from Covid-19.

When I think about it, I really don't even know 1 person that died from Covid. Guess it's a sort of media thing. I never got sick and I'm still around even though I haven't worn a mask for the last 2 years. Some folks will believe everything on the media and some folks sure scare easy!
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People did die of Covid, you are lucky to have avoided it and not losing anyone you know to it. I know 2 people who died of it, one was a pretty close friend.

Wikipedia lists over 1,000 well known folks who died of it, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_due_to_COVID-19 . I think you will recognize some of them. The most recent may have been David Crosby in January, although his cause of death is uncertain.

Deaths seem to have occurred at rates higher than the regular flu, but not as high as was first feared, or as high as the press suggested. No surprise there, how accurate are most press reports of complex issues? Fortunately deaths are are going down in part because of the vaccines, in part natural immunity, and in part a declining virility of the newer strains.
 
Alligatorob said:
People did die of Covid, you are lucky to have avoided it and not losing anyone you know to it. I know 2 people who died of it, one was a pretty close friend.

Wikipedia lists over 1,000 well known folks who died of it, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_due_to_COVID-19 . I think you will recognize some of them. The most recent may have been David Crosby in January, although his cause of death is uncertain.

Deaths seem to have occurred at rates higher than the regular flu, but not as high as was first feared, or as high as the press suggested. No surprise there, how accurate are most press reports of complex issues? Fortunately deaths are are going down in part because of the vaccines, in part natural immunity, and in part a declining virility of the newer strains.
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It's very easy to create a long list of people who died of Covid - when Covid was listed as the cause of death solely because of a positive test, even when their deaths had nothing to do with Covid.
 
win231 said:
It's very easy to create a long list of people who died of Covid - when Covid was listed as the cause of death solely because of a positive test, even when their deaths had nothing to do with Covid.
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I am sure some of that happened, however during the pandemic, particularly during the early phases overall death rate increased, ignoring cause. There seems a close correlation with Covid and I know of no other plausible explanation. According to the WHO we have probably underestimated Covid caused deaths.
Excess mortality during the Coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19) - Our World in Data.jpg
https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

The true death toll of COVID-19
Estimating global excess mortality
https://www.who.int/data/stories/the-true-death-toll-of-covid-19-estimating-global-excess-mortality
 
Alligatorob said:
I am sure some of that happened, however during the pandemic, particularly during the early phases overall death rate increased, ignoring cause. There seems a close correlation with Covid and I know of no other plausible explanation. According to the WHO we have probably underestimated Covid caused deaths.
View attachment 279486
https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

The true death toll of COVID-19
Estimating global excess mortality
https://www.who.int/data/stories/the-true-death-toll-of-covid-19-estimating-global-excess-mortality
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I posted previously about the same type of graph used by the Dept. of Water & Power when they tried to rip me off on my electricity bill (along with many other customers). THEY draw those graphs on their computer, so they can make the lines as long as they want to create whatever statistics they want. In this case, to create more fear & sell more vaccines & drugs.

From 6-21-22:
A few years ago, Dept. of Water & Power was systematically ripping people off on their electric bill. Several people complained about their normal electric charge of $150.00 - $300.00 which suddenly went up to $1,600.00.
I was one of those potential "victims." I spoke to someone at DWP who told me, "All you have to do is look at the graph which shows the dramatic increase in your power usage."
I said, "Ma'am, YOU draw your graph; you can make the lines as long as you want to justify ripping people off. Do you think everyone is stupid?"
The end result? I contacted the councilman in my district and the governor. They ORDERED DWP to install a digital meter on my property, that sends a signal to their office, so they can't fabricate numbers, which (of course) they resisted - until they were FORCED to.
My electric bill went back down to $112.00.
Yeah, them graphs are..........meaningful. IF you swallow everything you're fed.
 
win231 said:
THEY draw those graphs on their computer, so they can make the lines as long as they want to create whatever statistics they want. In this case, to create more fear & sell more vaccines & drugs.
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The graphs look fine to me, but I suppose they might not to everyone.

That is why I posted a link to the actual data used to generate the graphs. Any way you graph it tells the same story, Covid has killed a lot of people.
 

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