What are Your Thoughts on the Chicago Homicide crisis?

L

Lon

Well-known Member
Location
Central California
C'mon Quicksilver---this is your neighborhood. What would you suggest?
More Federal Funding?
 

I've only been in Chicago a few times but based on my limited experience I would put it on a par with Rio de Janero and for the same reasons.

Those who have spent any real time in Rio will understand exactly what I mean.
 
Donald Trump and the Chicago Mayor have had a talk about this issue.
Trump has suggested (on Twitter) that the Mayor should ask for federal help.
The Mayor has expressed the need for a multifaceted approach.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...weet-chicago-violence-met-20170102-story.html

Perhaps this could be where DJ Trump will make a positive difference?
Will Congress agree to supply some funding or will they simply advise the adoption of "stop and frisk"?
 

Certain demographics in our major metropolitan areas have generational problems with gang violence. People have been raised to "exist" by being part of a gang. We watched a show on Animal Planet last night about African Dogs. They will run lions away, simply be being in a pack and using strategy to protect or to prey. It is sad to say we have areas in our Country where people's way of life is being part of a "pack". They are recruited, trained, learn to rob and kill. It has become a kill or be killed culture.

How do we break that generational culture of gang violence? How do we educate entire neighborhoods... large neighborhoods that they should be working at good paying jobs and not worrying about protecting their homes and families from drive-by shootings? How do we turn gang violence/survival into friendly co-existence?

If the answer were easy, Chicago would no longer keep setting homicide records. Put large deployments of police on each street corner and you will have an all out war. Declare curfews and how do you enforce them without infringing on people's rights? They can't go find employment because it just isn't there. If there were jobs in their neighborhoods, we would see those jobs pay minimum wage.

I do not believe tossing money at the issue solves anything unless someone can explain where that money is going and why. I do not believe simply hiring more police will solve the issue. Yet, I do not have the answer. Perhaps someone else does.
 
Grumpy Ol' Man said:
Certain demographics in our major metropolitan areas have generational problems with gang violence. People have been raised to "exist" by being part of a gang. We watched a show on Animal Planet last night about African Dogs. They will run lions away, simply be being in a pack and using strategy to protect or to prey. It is sad to say we have areas in our Country where people's way of life is being part of a "pack". They are recruited, trained, learn to rob and kill. It has become a kill or be killed culture.

How do we break that generational culture of gang violence? How do we educate entire neighborhoods... large neighborhoods that they should be working at good paying jobs and not worrying about protecting their homes and families from drive-by shootings? How do we turn gang violence/survival into friendly co-existence?

If the answer were easy, Chicago would no longer keep setting homicide records. Put large deployments of police on each street corner and you will have an all out war. Declare curfews and how do you enforce them without infringing on people's rights? They can't go find employment because it just isn't there. If there were jobs in their neighborhoods, we would see those jobs pay minimum wage.

I do not believe tossing money at the issue solves anything unless someone can explain where that money is going and why. I do not believe simply hiring more police will solve the issue. Yet, I do not have the answer. Perhaps someone else does.
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It's not politically correct but you need different types of policing for different environments. And people are fooling themselves if they don't believe that when safety becomes an issue that you have to be willing to sacrifice some freedom to get the situation under control.
 
Warrigal said:
Donald Trump and the Chicago Mayor have had a talk about this issue.
Trump has suggested (on Twitter) that the Mayor should ask for federal help.
The Mayor has expressed the need for a multifaceted approach.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...weet-chicago-violence-met-20170102-story.html

Perhaps this could be where DJ Trump will make a positive difference?
Will Congress agree to supply some funding or will they simply advise the adoption of "stop and frisk"?
Click to expand...

I read also that Mr. Trump had suggested to the Mayor of Chicago to ask for federal help if needed, I see this as a good thing. I believe President Trump can make a difference once in office, he can't do any worse than the present administration in regard to the rampant crime in Chicago, I don't put complete blame on the president, but he hasn't done much to remedy the situation. I hope they do what they have to in Chicago, the street gangs have taken over and the people are mourning their dead as a result. Maybe the new year will bring some justice to the city thugs in these areas and put them behind bars where they belong. I stay hopeful for 2017 and the future of the cities that have fallen by the wayside
 
I do not think government has the tools within constitutional limits to cure this problem.

We need a couple policeman on every block, we need an effective probation system, we need a welfare system, with compulsory education and civic responsibility components, we need living wage jobs, we need never to drop a weapons charge, never plea bargain a weapons charge. We need to hold landlords to strict building codes and put habitual violators out of business. We need merchants to forbid loitering on and around their premises. We need effective and enforceable nuisance property laws. We need people admit that there is a problem within the fabric of their neighorhoods and to take ownership of it.

We need to become more socialist,"It takes a village!"
 
It's not just Chicago, we have kids shooting kids in my city too. I really don't think throwing money at law enforcement will make a difference. The increased police budgets will make police more visible in the community and that may create an illusion of safety that has a calming influence on the residents but I don't think it will stop the violence. I think the only way to stop the violence is to get these kids to value their own lives and give them some kind of hope for a better life, that's a tall order that may take a generation or more to implement. I would like to see a program that would give kids a path out of the inner city. A program that would provide some education to complete a GED, vocational training and community service while being paid and building college tuition credits that could be used to continue their education at the end of the program. I'm not Pollyanna, I don't believe that the truly hard core gang members would participate in a program like this unless a judge mandated it but it might get some kids out of the community before they get sucked under.

I also believe that in some communities, mine included, the public school system should begin offering grades 7-12 a campus environment option where kids can live and work in a controlled environment, sort of like a boarding school. I truly believe that this type of educational program could help break the cycle of violence and poverty that exists in many urban areas.
 
Some good ideas in that post, Bea.

Prevention is better than cure and inoculation better than antibiotics.
If we thought of urban violence as a public health issue we might just come up with effective ways to treat it.
 
Warrigal said:
Some good ideas in that post, Bea.

Prevention is better than cure and inoculation better than antibiotics.
If we thought of urban violence as a public health issue we might just come up with effective ways to treat it.
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inoculation isn't effective against gram negative organisms. in other words the cure must be more specific

allowing non medical problems to be defined as public health issues opens the door for political powers to define cultural issues along arbitrary guidelines usually at the loss of specific freedoms.

wow what a great definition for socialism
 
Ok... I'll put in my two cents... There are vast pockets of poverty and joblessness in Chicago... Desperate people do desperate things.. Gangs and gang violence are the result. BUT more to the point.. Where do you people think the Chicago gangs are getting their guns? Do you think they are building them in their basements? NO.. they are making the very short drive across the Illinois/Indiana border to where guns are readily available due to lax or non-existent gun regulations. Gun shows are all over Northwestern Indiana making it very easy for gangs to get weapons. They aren't buying the guns in Chicago.. They are making huge straw man purchases without background checks. If we had more national common sense gun regulation, Chicago gangs may not be able to shoot up their neighborhoods..
 
Chicago "leaders" need to have the will to deal with it. Throwing "federal money" at will not effect a cure.
 
QuickSilver said:
Ok... I'll put in my two cents... There are vast pockets of poverty and joblessness in Chicago... Desperate people do desperate things.. Gangs and gang violence are the result. BUT more to the point.. Where do you people think the Chicago gangs are getting their guns? Do you think they are building them in their basements? NO.. they are making the very short drive across the Illinois/Indiana border to where guns are readily available due to lax or non-existent gun regulations. Gun shows are all over Northwestern Indiana making it very easy for gangs to get weapons. They aren't buying the guns in Chicago.. They are making huge straw man purchases without background checks. If we had more national common sense gun regulation, Chicago gangs may not be able to shoot up their neighborhoods..
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Indiana has the same gun regulations as every state. Why aren't the adjacent states suffering the same mania? Gun shows always run FBI background checks through the NCBI its part of the liability package for them to rent the stadiums and expos for the shows. Chicago has the tightest gun control laws in the country yet is the murder capital of the US. If we had more national common sense gun regulation the Chicago gun laws would be kicked out the courts, and universal carry would become law of the land.
Now that a new supreme court will be soon, and the hundreds of bench judges that will come under this, look for this to happen. Already in 35 states. Suck it up buttercup.
 
Chicago, and many major urban areas, is seeing the results of primarily two issues. First, there is the total breakdown of the urban family...even Obama cited this as a primary reason for the increase in crime and violence in the inner city, during his first Presidential campaign. Second, this "Black Lives Matter" campaign...resulting from the actions of a small handful of the police, has resulted in many policeman going into "Stand Down" mode...for fear that they will be singled out if they do anything remotely excessive during a arrest or confrontation with a criminal. Political Correctness has created an environment where the thugs know that they can run amok, and probably get away with it. Anarchy is becoming the norm in some of our inner cities, and a policy of "No Snitching" among the responsible people in those areas insures that no one will come forward to assist the police in an investigation.
 
rt3 said:
Indiana has the same gun regulations as every state. Why aren't the adjacent states suffering the same mania? Gun shows always run FBI background checks through the NCBI its part of the liability package for them to rent the stadiums and expos for the shows. Chicago has the tightest gun control laws in the country yet is the murder capital of the US. If we had more national common sense gun regulation the Chicago gun laws would be kicked out the courts, and universal carry would become law of the land.
Now that a new supreme court will be soon, and the hundreds of bench judges that will come under this, look for this to happen. Already in 35 states. Suck it up buttercup.
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Yes... Chicago has tight gun laws.... The gangs do not buy guns in Chicago... They buy them in Indiana... and you have given the typical NRA shill answer.. let's have EVERYONE packing heat.

Oh... and stop the "buttercup" shit.. did you read Matrix's sticky at the top of this forum... You are being condescending and rude.
 
A lot of programs and the spending of a lot of money since LBJ's War on Poverty have failed to reduce the intractable problems of the inner cities. After years of effort it was labeled vertical barbarism by one observer, rather apt...
 
In early December, one of the up and coming boxers from Chicago, Ed "Bad Boy" Brown was shot and killed and his girlfriend was also shot, but survived. This kid has the usual hard luck story of being involved in drugs and gangs, but moved past that and tried to instead, make something of himself. His record of 20-0 with 16 KO's made him a serious contender for the welterweight championship, but now, we will never know.

I don't think there is any easy answer. These kids have turf wars all the time. LA is another city with the same thing going on. Kids are killing each other at a rampant pace. Some think education will cure this, but most of these kids have no desire to walk into a classroom. Selling drugs puts a lot of money in their pockets in a short time, so they don't see any need to go to school. What they can't see is the consequences of their actions.

Obviously, Chicago is a city out of control with gun violence. There were over 700 people shot and killed in Chicago in 2016 and 4 so far in 2017. http://heyjackass.com/
 
oldman said:
In early December, one of the up and coming boxers from Chicago, Ed "Bad Boy" Brown was shot and killed and his girlfriend was also shot, but survived. This kid has the usual hard luck story of being involved in drugs and gangs, but moved past that and tried to instead, make something of himself. His record of 20-0 with 16 KO's made him a serious contender for the welterweight championship, but now, we will never know.

I don't think there is any easy answer. These kids have turf wars all the time. LA is another city with the same thing going on. Kids are killing each other at a rampant pace. Some think education will cure this, but most of these kids have no desire to walk into a classroom. Selling drugs puts a lot of money in their pockets in a short time, so they don't see any need to go to school. What they can't see is the consequences of their actions.

Obviously, Chicago is a city out of control with gun violence. There were over 700 people shot and killed in Chicago in 2016 and 4 so far in 2017. http://heyjackass.com/
Click to expand...

Absolutely, and stricter National gun laws would prevent some of the guns on the streets. There also needs to be jobs in the inner city. You cannot expect people to work, but have no living wage jobs available.. at least that they can get to on public transportation.

I also agree that the breakdown of the family structure is a big part.. That will only improve with education.. and JOBS... You simply cannot legislate "responsible parenting". You cannot pass any law that is going to make fathers participate in their children's lives.. or even pay for their support. Oh sure, you can make child support mandatory.. it already is. But you can't go much beyond that. Put them in jail? How do they pay child support then?
 
The sad part of the "feel good" solutions is that they miss the obvious perps and therefore are wasted. It is like the reference to the "war on poverty" - after a half century of failure, the answer is "spend more".
"Guns" - I hate to throw out a bumper sticker but "Guns don't kill; people do" is a truth.
"JOBS" - great!!! Place good jobs in an area with unqualified people.
"Better education" - great!! Spend more money providing better education to those with no interest in education. The Tampa Bay Times did some "investigative reporting" a while back and ran a series on the racism of one local school District. It seems the number of students disciplined for disruptive behavior was out of proportion to their racial proportion of the student population. The answer - new regs requiring punishment by proportion. See an educational problem in that??
"Store owners telling the gangsters to get outa here" - would you like to cross the hoodlums?

And so on and so on. All the efforts to find the fix outside of the actual "doers" is bound to fail. Looking for a fix where it must be found tends to make some feel very uncomfortable and they oppose them by calling proposers "racists", "uncaring", etc. etc.

The answers lie where many do not want to go, such as support for the efforts of the police and having the will to tell the protester "Oh, shut up". Often the family situation is mentioned - how about a form of non-permanent sterilization for a woman on welfare who has another child? Education - how about earned better schooling via vouchers or assignment based on merit?
 

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