What are Your Thoughts on the Chicago Homicide crisis?

[QuickSilver]

The sad part of the "feel good" solutions is that they miss the obvious perps and therefore are wasted. It is like the reference to the "war on poverty" - after a half century of failure, the answer is "spend more".
"Guns" - I hate to throw out a bumper sticker but "Guns don't kill; people do" is a truth.
"JOBS" - great!!! Place good jobs in an area with unqualified people.
"Better education" - great!! Spend more money providing better education to those with no interest in education. The Tampa Bay Times did some "investigative reporting" a while back and ran a series on the racism of one local school District. It seems the number of students disciplined for disruptive behavior was out of proportion to their racial proportion of the student population. The answer - new regs requiring punishment by proportion. See an educational problem in that??
"Store owners telling the gangsters to get outa here" - would you like to cross the hoodlums?

And so on and so on. All the efforts to find the fix outside of the actual "doers" is bound to fail. Looking for a fix where it must be found tends to make some feel very uncomfortable and they oppose them by calling proposers "racists", "uncaring", etc. etc.

The answers lie where many do not want to go, such as support for the efforts of the police and having the will to tell the protester "Oh, shut up". Often the family situation is mentioned - how about a form of non-permanent sterilization for a woman on welfare who has another child? Education - how about earned better schooling via vouchers or assignment based on merit?

Ah yes.... Let's just grab people off the street and sterilize them.. Are you forgetting this isn't Nazi Germany? AND lets consign the poorest most difficult students to public schools and give all the money to private schools for the whitest..... ummmm I mean more deserving students. typical Right Wing drivel.

 

[rt3]

Ah yes.... Let's just grab people off the street and sterilize them.. Are you forgetting this isn't Nazi Germany? AND lets consign the poorest most difficult students to public schools and give all the money to private schools for the whitest..... ummmm I mean more deserving students. typical Right Wing drivel.

Rant is spelled rant

 

[WhatInThe]

A lot of these killings seem to be about territory, 'respect', revenge etc. Might not be one big gang war but that's what seems to be going on.

Still have to wonder about the mentality of these cold brazen killers that not only have a short temper but have no compunction about killing innocents as well. Yes there economic issues at play but it still takes individuals to illegally obtain guns or illegally deal in banned substances along with frequently stalking their pray.

 

[rt3]

just curious from another topic. Just curious, when Obama retires to Chicago, is going to build on the "activity" side or a gated community?

Hmmm with 762 murders out of 4300 shootings

Boy, Trumpkins sure bitch slapped Emmanuel.

 

[Ray]

Ah yes.... Let's just grab people off the street and sterilize them.. Are you forgetting this isn't Nazi Germany? AND lets consign the poorest most difficult students to public schools and give all the money to private schools for the whitest..... ummmm I mean more deserving students. typical Right Wing drivel.

QS - your choice, either show where I said, "grab people off the streets and sterilize them" or apologize for your highly offensive "Nazi Germany" comment.

And then there is the offensive, "private schools for the whitest". Please point out where I said that or post an apology.

Now, would you care to offer your opinion on what I actually posted???

 

[Ray]

A lot of these killings seem to be about territory, 'respect', revenge etc. Might not be one big gang war but that's what seems to be going on.

Still have to wonder about the mentality of these cold brazen killers that not only have a short temper but have no compunction about killing innocents as well. Yes there economic issues at play but it still takes individuals to illegally obtain guns or illegally deal in banned substances along with frequently stalking their pray.

It has to do with the snowflake phenomenon that has infected a generation (or more). People are so used to getting their way and being told they are entitled to do so, they simply cannot deal with disappointment.

Add the "victimology" aspect in the black community and you have a lethal blend.

 

[Knight]

Poverty, lack of jobs, no hope seems to be the common theme of why gangs and violence are the norm in large cities, Chicago standing out as being the epicenter.
According to the media America has rebounded with jobs and prosperity & unemployment at 4.7%. So as a theme poverty, lack of jobs, no hope doesn't seem possible does it? Not PC to discuss but a sense of belonging to a family is a reason given for being in a gang. Ethnic turf another. The cause of those two stem from ? Can't post my opinion on that since being labeled a racist would be the automatic response.
More police? Sounds good an increase in property and sales taxes for the citizens living in Illinois and in particular Chicago should help pay for additional police. Surely those living there wouldn't expect federal tax dollars to bail them out of the predicament of past liberal wage and benefit packages would they? That almost has a socialist ring to it expecting government to step in with money taken from others.

Huge national debt, a projected increase in the defict, robotics replacing human labor, lower paying service jobs, health care @1/6th of the economy still rising are problems that aren't going to go away. Good possibility that problems will increase.

 

[Don M.]

Individual responsibility, and the desire to become a productive member of society, seems to be increasingly lacking in large segments of our population. Instead, these traits are increasingly being replaced by an "entitlement" mentality which teaches that people are "owed" a decent life. As a result, when individual effort and responsibility are lacking, it is now "society's" fault....in the minds of some.

 

[QuickSilver]

Individual responsibility, and the desire to become a productive member of society, seems to be increasingly lacking in large segments of our population. Instead, these traits are increasingly being replaced by an "entitlement" mentality which teaches that people are "owed" a decent life. As a result, when individual effort and responsibility are lacking, it is now "society's" fault....in the minds of some.

No.. but it becomes "Society's problem" when people turn to crime due to lack of education and opportunity.

 

[aeron]

So make some or all of the cost of imprisonment fall on the criminal. It could be done by taxation or by garneshing of future wages or by confiscation of property.

 

[tnthomas]

Poor, uneducated people minus job opportunities + drugs & alcohol = a population with substandard parenting /life skills....producing children with no hope or sense of family, except that which street gangs offer.

The cycle continues, neverending.

 

[QuickSilver]

Poor, uneducated people minus job opportunities + drugs & alcohol = a population with substandard parenting /life skills....producing children with no hope or sense of family, except that which street gangs offer.

The cycle continues, neverending.

My point exactly. The cycle must be broken... and not by throwing more people in prison.

 

[silla]

Ah yes.... Let's just grab people off the street and sterilize them.. Are you forgetting this isn't Nazi Germany? AND lets consign the poorest most difficult students to public schools and give all the money to private schools for the whitest..... ummmm I mean more deserving students. typical Right Wing drivel.

If women are not going to police themselves responsibly about getting pregnant and birthing babies, then it is high time for society and the gov to do it.

The act of rampant, reckless, unrestrained, base breeding (and failed parenting) is THE #1 foundational cause of many of the worst problems in this nation.

 

[silla]

C'mon Quicksilver---this is your neighborhood. What would you suggest?
More Federal Funding?

Imo, Chicago can deal with its own problems, without monies from taxpayers in other states, because every state in this country has problems, most of which are not being addressed and resolved. Maybe I'm pro-isolationist but my tax dollars should help fund resolutions for the issues that exist in the state in which I live and have $upported for decades . . . and residents of other states can advocate for their own, too.

The problem in Chicago, as in every such situation coast to coast, starts with reckless breeding and a failure to properly parent. Time to start restricting breeding (because certain humans are selfish and irresponsible) or at best, STOP funding the breeders and career welfarists.

 

[BlunderWoman]

If women are not going to police themselves responsibly about getting pregnant and birthing babies, then it is high time for society and the gov to do it.

The act of rampant, reckless, unrestrained, base breeding (and failed parenting) is THE #1 foundational cause of many of the worst problems in this nation.

Hold on there just a minute there. Besides the idea of government dictated birth control being a bad idea .... why oh why did you ONLY mention WOMEN? Do you think these women reproduce by themselves like snails? I do tire of the double standard and dream of it's death someday. I doubt I'll live to see it. Where is the male culpability ?
I have watched television shows where the men have over THIRTY children ( that they know of) and have not been held accountable. Calling women 'breeders' is disgusting and why did you say nothing of the men and call them some nasty derogatory name as well?

 

[silla]

Hold on there just a minute there. Besides the idea of government dictated birth control being a bad idea .... why oh why did you ONLY mention WOMEN? Do you think these women reproduce by themselves like snails? I do tire of the double standard and dream of it's death someday. I doubt I'll live to see it. Where is the male culpability ?

As a "late in life feminist" I advocate that women MUST be in control of THEIR bodies, minds, choices, etc. Yes, males play a role in reproduction - but (in a consensual situation) they cannot do a darn thing unless a woman invites or allows them to do so. Therefore, getting pregnant, not getting pregnant is absolutely the responsibility of the female. Her body, her hormones, nine months of her life, etc. etc. etc. - HER responsibility.

 

[BlunderWoman]

As a "late in life feminist" I advocate that women MUST be in control of THEIR bodies, minds, choices, etc. Yes, males play a role in reproduction - but (in a consensual situation) they cannot do a darn thing unless a woman invites or allows them to do so. Therefore, getting pregnant, not getting pregnant is absolutely the responsibility of the female. Her body, her hormones, nine months of her life, etc. etc. etc. - HER responsibility.

I beg to differ. I taught my son to bear responsibility. To ask and make sure the woman was on birth control. To wear condoms, etc. The woman may get left holding the bag, but it is the responsibility of both people involved to use preventative methods.
I have a daughter who got pregnant while married, on birth control AND with husband wearing a condom which he busted through. She did not want to get pregnant because she was considering a divorce, but it did happen in spite of her and his efforts.

 

[silla]

Hold on there just a minute there. Besides the idea of government dictated birth control being a bad idea .... why oh why did you ONLY mention WOMEN? Do you think these women reproduce by themselves like snails? I do tire of the double standard and dream of it's death someday. I doubt I'll live to see it. Where is the male culpability ?
I have watched television shows where the men have over THIRTY children ( that they know of) and have not been held accountable. Calling women 'breeders' is disgusting and why did you say nothing of the men and call them some nasty derogatory name as well?

I have already replied to your post but notice that you edited and added something else, so ok, I'll reply once again:

Men are basically disgusting in this sense because they are hard-wired for sex, sex, sex - but that is NO excuse for anyone giving them carte blanche to do whatever they want, anytime they want, though unfortunately many women do just that with their pathetic justification of "men will be men". That said, since their hard-wiring is not going to change, it is absolutely up to females to be 100% responsible when it comes to sex and breeding.

Women should not be allowed to do whatever they want, any more than males should - but it is the female who gets pregnant and carries a child for nine months and deals with resultant hormonal changes. She also usually becomes the sole caregiver - so while I abhor the behaviors of sex-crazed males and would advocate sterilization of all of them, I intellectually and sensibly know that the PRIMARY responsibility regarding sex and breeding lies with the females.

If you don't understand that and disagree, that's your right - but it is disgraceful for women to make excuses for the reckless and irresponsible behaviors of other women.

I take pride in my gender and my gender-related choices and I expect no less from other females. But sadly, females are evolving into behaviors and mindsets that are increasingly selfish and irresponsible.

 

[silla]

I beg to differ. I taught my son to bear responsibility. To ask and make sure the woman was on birth control. To wear condoms, etc. The woman may get left holding the bag, but it is the responsibility of both people involved to use preventative methods.
I have a daughter who got pregnant while married, on birth control AND with husband wearing a condom which he busted through. She did not want to get pregnant because she was considering a divorce, but it did happen in spite of her and his efforts.

Curious, did it ever occur to you to teach your son abstinence? If parents really want their sons to be respectful and decent and honorable males, then one of the most basic things they should be taught is that sex does NOT equate to love and that they should never rush into it at young ages; instead, parents think they're doing a great job if they tell their sons to wear a condom or ask a girl if she's on the pill.

Sorry but honestly, I cannot believe that if birth control pills were taken faithfully AND a condom was worn properly, that a pregnancy would occur.

To the OP - sorry we have derailed your thread. I was just posting that the #1 cause of so many problems, including crime rates like that in Chicago, are due to unrestrained breeding and failed parenting.

This is all I will post on this subject here. Should anyone wish to start a thread about this topic, feel free.

 

[BlunderWoman]

I have already replied to your post but notice that you edited and added something else, so ok, I'll reply once again:

Men are basically disgusting - they are hard-wired for sex, sex, sex - but that is NO excuse for anyone giving them carte blanche to do whatever they want, anytime they want, though unfortunately many women do just that with their pathetic justification of "men will be men". That said, since their hard-wiring is not going to change, it is absolutely up to females to be 100% responsible when it comes to sex and breeding.

Women should not be allowed to do whatever they want, any more than males should - but it is the female who gets pregnant and carries a child for nine months and deals with resultant hormonal changes. She also usually becomes the sole caregiver - so while I abhor the behaviors of sex-crazed males and would advocate sterilization of all of them, I intellectually and sensibly know that the PRIMARY responsibility lies with the females.

If you don't understand that and disagree, that's your right - but it is disgraceful for any women to make excuses for the reckless and irresponsible behaviors of other women.

I take pride in my gender and my choices and I expect no less from others in my gender.

Wow. I think I have a better opinion of men then that. They are not all a bunch a mindless animals that cannot control their sexual urges. I did not make excuses for the irresponsible behavior of women- what I did say was that they are not the only ones to be held accountable for creating a baby together. Many women in their late 30's and early 40's have a huge sex drive as well. Men are not the only creatures with a sex drive. There are many many men who do not behave irresponsibly about sex and making babies. I taught my on to always picture whoever he wanted to sleep with as being the mother of his child because that's how babies are made. It takes two to tango. Did you know there are even some men with very little sex drive at all? They should not all be simply thrown into one lump of drooling insatiable animals.

 

[BlunderWoman]

Curious, did it ever occur to you to teach your son abstinence? If parents really want their sons to be respectful and decent and honorable males, then one of the most basic things they should be taught is that sex does NOT equate to love and that they should never rush into it at young ages; instead, parents think they're doing a great job if they tell their sons to wear a condom or ask a girl if she's on the pill.

Sorry but honestly, I cannot believe that if birth control pills were taken faithfully AND a condom was worn properly, that a pregnancy would occur.

The the OP - sorry we have derailed your thread. This is all I will post on this subject here. Should anyone wish to start a thread about this topic, feel free.

No , ask Sarah Palin how her abstinence lectures worked out for her daughter. NOPE I never taught them abstinence. In spite of that I raised 4 daughters and one son. 3 daughters didn't marry until over 20 and all three were virgins when they married & I'm not even religious. The 4th daughter got a boyfriend at 20 and is still living with him and still going to college. My son never used abstinence but did not get anyone pregnant until last year he got his wife pregnant and he is 30 years old, so I don't think I brought up a herd of irresponsible people.

As to your comment:
"Sorry but honestly, I cannot believe that if birth control pills were taken faithfully AND a condom was worn properly, that a pregnancy would occur."

Maybe you should get a little more education about that. Condoms bust sometimes & the pill doesn't always work.

 

[aeron]

There are a ..... group .... of women who see being a baby factory a career choice. There are also a set of women who are equally sex adicted as any men.

 

[QuickSilver]

There are a ..... group .... of women who see being a baby factory a career choice. There are also a set of women who are equally sex adicted as any men.

So let me understand... The Conservative position is pro-life.. and not only anti-abortion, but in most cases anti-birth control. Part of the objection to the ACA (Obamacare) is the fact that it mandates that birth control be covered in all the policies. There is a constant drumbeat to defund Planned Parenthood, which provides not JUST abortions, but birth control primarily to low income women.. YET.. you advocate mandatory sterilization for "a certain group" of women.. Let's be clear here.. what "group of women" are you primarily talking about? Would that be BLACK women? Is that the group you would not mind being forcibly sterilized? Of course.. it doesn't matter that the majority of welfare recipients are in this country are White.. but when talking about Chicago gang crime... you are discussing BLACK people... Is a little bit of racism infecting your thinking?

 

[aeron]

So let me understand... The Conservative position is pro-life.. and not only anti-abortion, but in most cases anti-birth control. Part of the objection to the ACA (Obamacare) is the fact that it mandates that birth control be covered in all the policies. There is a constant drumbeat to defund Planned Parenthood, which provides not JUST abortions, but birth control primarily to low income women.. YET.. you advocate mandatory sterilization for "a certain group" of women.. Let's be clear here.. what "group of women" are you primarily talking about? Would that be BLACK women? Is that the group you would not mind being forcibly sterilized? Of course.. it doesn't matter that the majority of welfare recipients are in this country are White.. but when talking about Chicago gang crime... you are discussing BLACK people... Is a little bit of racism infecting your thinking?

So let me make it clearer. I couldn't care much less about the stance that people take based on their political or religious beliefs where elective termination of pregnancy is concerned, it is when all is said and done nothing other than a form of birth control.

Nor could I care about the views that people have regarding pre coital birth control by hormonal means, mechanical means, use of the "time of the month" or adopting the astronaut practice. Nor the post coital pill either. The ONLY person with the absolute right to decide is the woman. No one else has one iota of a right to interfere one way or another.

No one.

Ever.

As for racism, I am at a loss as to how that came into this. It is a fact that there is a group of women who see a career out of churning out kids.

It is just as much a fact that there are as many woman permanently "on heat" as there are men.

What is also well worth keeping in mind that forced and or coerced sterilisation was taking place in the US even during the closing stages of the 20th century.

 

[oldman]

I don't disagree that stricter gun laws would cut down on some of the shootings and killings, but give me an example of a gun law that would not interfere with the 2nd amendment. The "breakdown of the family structure", as you have mentioned is also a good example of what's wrong in America, not just Chicago. But, how do you make dad's accountable by staying home and raising their family? Some point to education. Here in the city where I live is the largest high school in the county. The school is predominantly black because it is located in center city, which is also predominantly black. The drop out rate is just over 50%. When anyone enters the building, they must walk through a metal detector. Visitors from outside must be escorted by an armed security guard hired that is paid for by the school. Go to a basketball or football game and it looks like a cop's convention is going on. There is a lot of police presence inside and outside. The district has trouble hiring teachers because of the violence that goes inside the school.

Like I wrote earlier, I don't think any one thing will answer Chicago's problems. It is a city out of control. Gangbangers have to be brought under control. Coming up with a solution to that problem would be a good start. I have watched the movie "Boyz n the Hood" a number of times and although it is a movie out of Hollywood there are some real life events in that movie. It really bothers me to see young boys and girls being shot down over turf wars and drug issues. There has to be an answer to this problem. To just keep having meetings about it and never doing anything will not solve the problems.

I don't have an answer, It's easy for me to sit and say that Chicago should do this and/or that, but what do I know? I have never lived a life like poor, uneducated blacks, Latinos or whites have lived. I was lucky enough to come from a great home with a very good support system in place and two parents that cared about their kids. I have no idea what the rest of the kids in the world are going through. Probably, if I was a young, white, black or Latino kid from a single parent home, I can see myself being just like they are. If it's easier for me to sell drugs and line my pockets with cash, then I very well may go down that road. It also seems to me that drugs, guns and violence all go together.

There is a mentality among many young people that if you live in a certain area of the city then you best not come into my area of the city or I will shoot you. I must protect my turf from outsiders. Is that crazy or what?