What Do You Think Of This Health Insurance Premium?

[WhatInThe]

Rather than search for ways to pay for it find out why it costs so much. Don't just throw money at the problem.

Well that's simple. It costs so much because the companies offering it have to make a profit after paying all their expenses and guessing who is insurable and who is not and what to charge those who are at at risk.

That's the problem with 'for profit" health care. I think is outrageous to make money off of sick peoples backs.

The Canadian system. The doctors are basically private businesses. They bill the provincial governments and the provincial governments pay them. The provincial governments also cap the fee that they can charge.

It would never work in the United States. The people of the United States are so inured to free enterprise and competition that they cannot even start to envision a similar proposal where each state takes the same stance as the provinces in Canada.

Also. The billing practices to the insurance companies must be a nightmare when each patient might have a different insurance plan.

It's not just 'profit'. Third party or insurance company reimbursements perpetuate inflation or exorbitant/price gouging profit. Insurance in general can fester inflation. I had the same car repair done in two different states where one state mandated insurance companies cover it and another where they didn't. The cost of the repair in the insurance mandated state was about 4 times greater-in a lower cost of living state. But again third party money perpetuates inflation.

Also with totally inadequate upfront disclosure the providers bill the insurance on what they can get away with. Not just cover their costs and make "a" profit but a price gouging exorbitant profit. Even without an emergency situation to get upfront pricing from the health care industry is minimal at best. At least you get an written estimate/contract from a contractor when it comes to price, not from the health care industry.

 

[Don M.]

Also. The billing practices to the insurance companies must be a nightmare when each patient might have a different insurance plan.

For sure! Dealing with All these various insurance companies, has forced the doctors and hospitals to maintain large clerical staffs just to process the paperwork...and you can be sure that those employee expenses are passed along to the patients.

Then, there is the issue with Malpractice Insurance. Our doctors pay anywhere from $80,000 to $250,000 a year for malpractice insurance to protect themselves from our army of Ambulance Chasing Lawyers...and you can guess who ultimately pays those premiums.

The U.S. and New Zealand are the only nations which allow these Stupid "Ask your Doctor" ads to be constantly broadcast on TV...to the tune at least 12 billion dollars a year...which the drug companies then gleefully pass to the people who are prescribed these drugs.

Our bloated "for profit" system is so heavily immersed in chasing the Almighty Dollar, that patient care has become a secondary priority. Our system is totally based upon "Treatment", rather than "Prevention", because Treatment rakes in several times as much money as the Health Care Industry would make by trying to convince people to live a healthier lifestyle.

There are SO many things Wrong with our present system, that flaws could be found in almost every facet. Our government is unable, or unwilling, to seriously begin a major overhaul...instead it just continuously applies "Band-aid" fixes, like Obamacare. But, that is all going to change...and not too far into the future. As costs continue to spiral out of control, the day is fast approaching where neither individuals, nor government subsidies will be able to keep feeding this Monster. Already, some people are faced with paying more for health insurance/care than they pay for food and housing. That is simply unsustainable.

 

[WhatInThe]

For sure! Dealing with All these various insurance companies, has forced the doctors and hospitals to maintain large clerical staffs just to process the paperwork...and you can be sure that those employee expenses are passed along to the patients.

Then, there is the issue with Malpractice Insurance. Our doctors pay anywhere from $80,000 to $250,000 a year for malpractice insurance to protect themselves from our army of Ambulance Chasing Lawyers...and you can guess who ultimately pays those premiums.

The U.S. and New Zealand are the only nations which allow these Stupid "Ask your Doctor" ads to be constantly broadcast on TV...to the tune at least 12 billion dollars a year...which the drug companies then gleefully pass to the people who are prescribed these drugs.

Our bloated "for profit" system is so heavily immersed in chasing the Almighty Dollar, that patient care has become a secondary priority. Our system is totally based upon "Treatment", rather than "Prevention", because Treatment rakes in several times as much money as the Health Care Industry would make by trying to convince people to live a healthier lifestyle.

There are SO many things Wrong with our present system, that flaws could be found in almost every facet. Our government is unable, or unwilling, to seriously begin a major overhaul...instead it just continuously applies "Band-aid" fixes, like Obamacare. But, that is all going to change...and not too far into the future. As costs continue to spiral out of control, the day is fast approaching where neither individuals, nor government subsidies will be able to keep feeding this Monster. Already, some people are faced with paying more for health insurance/care than they pay for food and housing. That is simply unsustainable.

"...SO many things Wrong..." which is exactly why Obama or Trump care won't solve the problems. Both bills focus on paying insurance premiums not controlling the costs of actual care. AGAIN third party money(insurance) perpetuates, festers, drives inflation.

That being said yes things like middlemen called the insurance industry are driving cost including malpractice insurance. But how care is delivered and billed are part of the issue as well. Providers need insurance "qualified"/familiar employees just for billing reasons alone. Setting aside "insurance" for a minute is the lack of upfront fully disclosed and/or package/bundled pricing which festers what ever you can get away with billing. The providers bill what they can get, not what their fee or costs are. They know that the patients and/or insurance companies are defacto hostages once they voluntarily to decide to pay for a service with insurance. Patients also have a whatever mindset what they slap that insurance card on the counter-there was a reason they made medical insurance cards similar to credit cards psychologically.

Full disclosure pricing should mean consistency in pricing as well. There shouldn't be the 100$ aspirin or band aid. Bill where the costs are, padding the bills elsewhere make it more difficult to identify cost problems for the insurer & patient especially. And have bundle & package deal pricing. Even price out use of a defribbrilator if your heart stops during a procedure. But vague and arbitrary pricing does not help.

"Fixing" health CARE and COST in the US should be a step by step chip away at it approach. But one sweeping bill/change for political legacy isn't going to do squat.

 

[Don M.]

"...SO many things Wrong..." which is exactly why Obama or Trump care won't solve the problems. Both bills focus on paying insurance premiums not controlling the costs of actual care. AGAIN third party money(insurance) perpetuates, festers, drives inflation. "Fixing" health CARE and COST in the US should be a step by step chip away at it approach. But one sweeping bill/change for political legacy isn't going to do squat.

That's right. Our Health Care Industry has been chasing the Almighty Dollar for decades, and this abomination is Not going to get fixed overnight. It's going to require several steps to restore some sanity to this system, and a major and sudden overhaul will only make things worse. However, Washington, and its Masters who fund the politicians campaigns, will be hard pressed to come up with any reasonable solutions until the majority of our people stand up. If you look up the 10 highest paid careers in the U.S., 7 of the top 10 are in the Medical arena. If you go to Opensecrets.org, and look at who funds the politicians campaigns, the Health Care Industry and the Lawyers are at or near the top contributors to the majority of our politicians...Both Democrat and Republican. It's all about Money, and patient care is little more than a "side effect".

This rising cost of Health Care in the U.S. is going to have dire consequences for our entire population within a very few years....especially for Seniors. Just like Social Security, the Medicare trust funds are being rapidly depleted, and unless positive action is taken, in the very near future, both of these programs will be worth a fraction of today's value. Medicare will be on life support in about 10 years.

http://www.pgpf.org/analysis/2016/06/medicare-trustees-warn-of-serious-financial-shortfalls

 

[Butterfly]

I strongly believe that part of the problem is our complete inability to comparison shop for health care services. If you need, say, a certain rocedure on your shoulder, you can't call around and see who charges what, because they flat will not (or cannot) tell you. I am aware they can't predict if something might go wrong during the procedure or if it might be worse than expected, but you ought to be able to get a "baseline" price, like when I call around to find out what it will cost to start up my swamp cooler for the summer, I get "Well, our base price is $100, but if you need new pads or pump that would be an additional $50," and so on. When we get medical care, we are agreeing to pay for services for which we have no idea of the cost.

ALSO, because of lawyers hiding around every corner, the medical industry is forced to order unnecessary tests to rule out every possible thing that might be wrong, no matter how unlikely, in order to cover their own butts from unfounded malpractice claims.

The whole system is just a mess.

 

[Aunt Bea]

I agree with Butterfly the whole system is just a mess!

I think back to my grandmother in the early sixties, before Medicare. My grandmother carried a modest major medical policy, with a benefits cap, that was intended to help with serious injury or illness. She paid cash for routine office visits, medical tests and prescription drugs. She lived in an area without ambulance service, when a family member was injured or ill you bundled them up and drove them to the hospital. The cost was high enough to pinch but not high enough to put her into bankruptcy. The old system was not perfect by any means but it kept costs within the reach of most average people mainly because you can't get blood from a stone! Then in 1965 Medicare came along and the medical folks found out that you can get blood and buckets of cash from the federal government, since then the whole system has spiraled out of control.

It seems a shame to me that we live in an age with all of these amazing drugs, talents, treatments, etc... that save and extend life but at the same time drains every nickle to the point where we can't afford to live.

I think I'm ready to dial it back to a simpler time.

 

[WhatInThe]

I strongly believe that part of the problem is our complete inability to comparison shop for health care services. If you need, say, a certain rocedure on your shoulder, you can't call around and see who charges what, because they flat will not (or cannot) tell you. I am aware they can't predict if something might go wrong during the procedure or if it might be worse than expected, but you ought to be able to get a "baseline" price, like when I call around to find out what it will cost to start up my swamp cooler for the summer, I get "Well, our base price is $100, but if you need new pads or pump that would be an additional $50," and so on. When we get medical care, we are agreeing to pay for services for which we have no idea of the cost.

ALSO, because of lawyers hiding around every corner, the medical industry is forced to order unnecessary tests to rule out every possible thing that might be wrong, no matter how unlikely, in order to cover their own butts from unfounded malpractice claims.

The whole system is just a mess.

Exactly, lack of up front fully disclosed pricing. Little need to compete. They take the insurance payout for granted along with the patients. The medical care industry is a defacto monopoly with limited choice which keeps prices artificially high based on insurance payouts. Other industries probably could be charged with price fixing with some of the stuff that goes on in the health care industry and/or billing.

For years it's been said that the AMA/American Medical Association wanted to keep the supply of doctors artificially low, this is a decades old story, might be different now but that mindset led to things like production line medicine ie patients per hour, maximizing insurance payouts/coding etc. The whole model is basically a backdoor monopoly for maximum profit.

 

[Knight]

I've always considered learning from the problems others have as a free way to avoid doing the same.
I'm not saying single payer systems are not possible, obviously they are. What I am saying is look at what is happening in countries that are having problems with long established systems and learn from what is impacting them. Beginning with primary care doctor to patient ratio, rural vs. metropolitan. Will adding about 30 million newly covered impact that and end up causing what others are experiencing?

Excerpts from an Article.
From Canada to the United Kingdom and even Scandinavia, single-payer systems have proven cripplingly expensive even as they limit patients’ ability to access quality care.

Consider Canada’s true single-payer system. Patients must wait an average of more than two months to see a specialist after getting a referral from their general practitioner, according to the Fraser Institute, a nonpartisan Canadian think tank. Patients can expect to wait another 9.8 weeks, on average, before receiving the treatment they need from that specialist.
Overall, Canadians now wait even longer than last year — and 97 percent longer than they did in 1993.
Access to care is so poor, in fact, that 52,000 Canadians flee to the United States each year for medical attention. They refuse to wait in line for care as their health deteriorates.

The situation is no better under Great Britain’s mainly government-run health system.
As of this summer, 3.4 million Brits were stuck on waiting lists — a 36 percent uptick since 2010. Last year, about a million people had to wait more than four months to get treatment. Almost 300,000 waited at least six months.
As with most centrally-controlled bureaucracies, the British health system is inefficient. According to a recent government report, the country’s National Health Service is plagued by problems like neglect, incorrectly-administered medications and inadequate care for the dying. In some cases, the report concluded that the treatment of patients was “appalling.” Last month, more than 40,000 young doctors threatened an all-out strike over their hours.

As the Swedish economist Nima Sanandaji recently explained, the country’s socialist experiment has proven “such a colossal failure that few even in the left today view the memory as something positive.”
https://www.pacificresearch.org/article/socialized-medicine-a-global-failure/

Trump cited Australia as a system to emulate, but that system has problems to.
http://www.ceda.com.au/2016/03/health-system-failing-most-vulnerable

 

[Butterfly]

I've always considered learning from the problems others have as a free way to avoid doing the same.
I'm not saying single payer systems are not possible, obviously they are. What I am saying is look at what is happening in countries that are having problems with long established systems and learn from what is impacting them. Beginning with primary care doctor to patient ratio, rural vs. metropolitan. Will adding about 30 million newly covered impact that and end up causing what others are experiencing?

Excerpts from an Article.
From Canada to the United Kingdom and even Scandinavia, single-payer systems have proven cripplingly expensive even as they limit patients’ ability to access quality care.

Consider Canada’s true single-payer system. Patients must wait an average of more than two months to see a specialist after getting a referral from their general practitioner, according to the Fraser Institute, a nonpartisan Canadian think tank. Patients can expect to wait another 9.8 weeks, on average, before receiving the treatment they need from that specialist.
Overall, Canadians now wait even longer than last year — and 97 percent longer than they did in 1993.
Access to care is so poor, in fact, that 52,000 Canadians flee to the United States each year for medical attention. They refuse to wait in line for care as their health deteriorates.

The situation is no better under Great Britain’s mainly government-run health system.
As of this summer, 3.4 million Brits were stuck on waiting lists — a 36 percent uptick since 2010. Last year, about a million people had to wait more than four months to get treatment. Almost 300,000 waited at least six months.
As with most centrally-controlled bureaucracies, the British health system is inefficient. According to a recent government report, the country’s National Health Service is plagued by problems like neglect, incorrectly-administered medications and inadequate care for the dying. In some cases, the report concluded that the treatment of patients was “appalling.” Last month, more than 40,000 young doctors threatened an all-out strike over their hours.

As the Swedish economist Nima Sanandaji recently explained, the country’s socialist experiment has proven “such a colossal failure that few even in the left today view the memory as something positive.”
https://www.pacificresearch.org/article/socialized-medicine-a-global-failure/

Trump cited Australia as a system to emulate, but that system has problems to.
http://www.ceda.com.au/2016/03/health-system-failing-most-vulnerable

I would be interested to know if those waiting times are across the board, so to speak, or if they are different for different types of procedures. For instance, I had a waiting time for my hip replacements (considered "elective" surgery even though my hips had deteriorated to mush); part of that was because I chose a surgeon who is arguably the best in the area and he has longer waiting times than many (yes, you CAN choose your specialist with medicare); part of it was the nature of the beast, i.e., that many more of us are reaching the age where hips fail and thus there are a lot more of us in line. However, I would not want to wait if I had had a condition where the wait might kill me or lessen my chances for survival.

How does that scenario play out in Canada, i.e., waiting time for non-elective surgery, treatment, etc.?

 

[Don M.]

There is Another Problem coming for our health care system....LacK of PCP/Family doctors. Over 90% of today's Med students are planning on entering some "Specialty", instead of becoming a PCP...because the Specialties are where the Big Bucks are. It may not be much more than 10 years before a lot of communities have few PCP's....as the existing doctors begin to retire.

I would like to see a government program which subsidizes the education of doctors...IF they commit to becoming a PCP.

 

[WhatInThe]

I would be interested to know if those waiting times are across the board, so to speak, or if they are different for different types of procedures. For instance, I had a waiting time for my hip replacements (considered "elective" surgery even though my hips had deteriorated to mush); part of that was because I chose a surgeon who is arguably the best in the area and he has longer waiting times than many (yes, you CAN choose your specialist with medicare); part of it was the nature of the beast, i.e., that many more of us are reaching the age where hips fail and thus there are a lot more of us in line. However, I would not want to wait if I had had a condition where the wait might kill me or lessen my chances for survival.

How does that scenario play out in Canada, i.e., waiting time for non-elective surgery, treatment, etc.?

Ironically the possible solutions to cheaper and more accessible care is clinic style medicine where one could walk into an office without an appointment. You might be triaged and have to wait but at least it would be cheaper and more accessible care for many. I think that's what would happen with a single payer type system, not necessarily rationing but wait times.

The benefit of private insurance and/or plans now is that one can schedule an appointment and be in an operating room with in days or get an in office procedure. Sometimes I think the 'convenience' of US insurance based medicine leads not only to the convenience of an appointment and immediate treatment but over treatment as well.

 

[Aunt Bea]

We have a sufficient number of PCPs in my area but they seem to have been dumbed down to the point that is it like visiting the school nurse. Most of the diagnosis, treatment and prescriptions for maintenance drugs comes out of a canned computer database. They seem to be little more than a dispatcher or clearing house to set you up with various specialists.

 

[WhatInThe]

There is Another Problem coming for our health care system....LacK of PCP/Family doctors. Over 90% of today's Med students are planning on entering some "Specialty", instead of becoming a PCP...because the Specialties are where the Big Bucks are. It may not be much more than 10 years before a lot of communities have few PCP's....as the existing doctors begin to retire.

I would like to see a government program which subsidizes the education of doctors...IF they commit to becoming a PCP.

This was a result of policy and philosophy of the US medical care industry. The AMA or American Medical Association has been one of the largest lobbies going back decades. For years they advocated and even lobbied congress to control the supply of medical school graduates and doctors.

1997

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/19...-medical-schools-new-doctors-american-medical

There was also a book about US health care that cameout around 1970ish that basically foretold and exposed alot of current day issues by exposing a lot of the dirty secrets of the industry. I can't think of the name but it still has value today.

 

[Don M.]

We have a sufficient number of PCPs in my area but they seem to have been dumbed down to the point that is it like visiting the school nurse. Most of the diagnosis, treatment and prescriptions for maintenance drugs comes out of a canned computer database. They seem to be little more than a dispatcher or clearing house to set you up with various specialists.

Isn't THAT the Truth! I seems that over the past 5 or 6 years, when I've visited the doctor, for the annual Medicare Wellness visit, etc., all he seems to do is play with his laptop as he enters any symptoms, etc. Heck, I can do that for myself by going to WebMD, or the Mayo Clinic web sites. Then, in the rare cases where I might have an issue, he just wants to refer me to a "specialist". I don't think he does anything but act as a "conduit" for the specialists. I've talked to several others who visit the same facility...they have 5 doctors, and are a extension of a very good hospital about 40 miles away...and everyone I talk to says the same thing about the doctor they visit. I'm beginning to think that if their laptops went down, they wouldn't be able to prescribe a bottle of aspirin.

 

[nvtribefan]

I've always considered learning from the problems others have as a free way to avoid doing the same.
I'm not saying single payer systems are not possible, obviously they are. What I am saying is look at what is happening in countries that are having problems with long established systems and learn from what is impacting them. Beginning with primary care doctor to patient ratio, rural vs. metropolitan. Will adding about 30 million newly covered impact that and end up causing what others are experiencing?

Excerpts from an Article.
From Canada to the United Kingdom and even Scandinavia, single-payer systems have proven cripplingly expensive even as they limit patients’ ability to access quality care.

What article? When and where was it published, and who wrote it?

 

[Camper6]

What article? When and where was it published, and who wrote it?

The Article comes from the Pacific Research Institute. They are committed to private care.

I'm Canadian. So let's check with Canadians to see if they are satisfied with their system And then let's compare that to the U.S. to see how many are satisfied with their system.

There are lots of comments about the wait times in Canada and Canadians visiting the U.S. for health care. Well if you have money you can do anything. That's the point. If you don't have money then what? That's never addressed in these articles.

If you need immediate care in Canada you are taken care of. My friend had a heart attack and was taken to hospital and had a stent put in and a pacemaker all within one hour.

I slipped and fell at home. I was asked if I wanted to go to hospital to get checked out. I said yes. They took me to the hospital and I had a series of tests including x-rays and blood tests and sent me home all within 4 hours. They suspected a heart attack which was ruled out.


Any way here goes:
Group says advocates of private system are out of touch with most Canadians

In a last-ditch effort to convince Canadians that their public health care system should be privatized, Canadian Medical Association (CMA) President Robert Ouellet has promised to “pull out all the stops” during the association’s annual meeting next week. Trouble is, Ouellet’s mission to lead the change to privatization is exactly the opposite of what 86 percent of Canadians want.

A new poll conducted by the Toronto-based Nanos Research points to overwhelming support — 86.2 percent — for strengthening public health care rather than expanding for-profit services.

“With more than 8 in 10 Canadians supporting public solutions to make public health care stronger, there is compelling evidence that Canadians across all demographics would prefer a public over a for-profit health care system,” said Nik Nanos, president of Nanos Research.

https://www.healthcare-now.org/blog...ns-overwhelmingly-support-public-health-care/


One-fourth of American respondents are either "very" or "somewhat" satisfied with "the availability of affordable healthcare in the nation," (6% very satisfied and 19% somewhat satisfied). This level of satisfaction is significantly lower than in Canada, where 57% are satisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, including 16% who are very satisfied. Roughly 4 in 10 Britons are satisfied (43%), but only 7% say they are very satisfied (similar to the percentage very satisfied in the United States).

Looking at the other side of the coin, 44% of Americans are very dissatisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, and nearly three-fourths (72%) are either somewhat or very dissatisfied. The 44% in the United States who are very dissatisfied with healthcare availability is significantly higher than corresponding figures in either Canada (17%) or Great Britain (25%).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-canada.aspx

 

[Trade]

Below is a link to a PDF document that gives some information on the BCBS Group Plan for State of Florida Employees. This is the one I was on when I was working and stayed with after I retired.


https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2017/7007/Analyses/h7007a.APC.PDF


If you look on page 7 you will find a history of the cost of this plan per employee beginning in with FY 04-05 up to and including FY 16-17. As you can see, for most of this time the contribution required from the employees has remained the same. $600 per year for single employees and $2160 for married employees opting for family coverage.
The state has opted to absorb the increased costs rather than pass them on to the employees. However during this period they were very miserly with pay increases to make up for that. Cost of living increases were virtually non existent.

Now if you look at the numbers in this chart you can readily see that the cost per single employee went from $4453 to $8314 per year over the 12 year period. That's an increase of almost 87%. That's an average of 5.3% per year over the 12 year period.

If you do the same for the family coverage option the increase is from $10,104 to $18,715 or a little over 85%. Rounded that also averages to about 5.3% over the 12 years.

Now lets go to the government's inflation calculator:

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

For the same 12 year period the CPI only increased 27%, for an average of 2% a year.

So there you have it in black and white. The cost of Health Insurance has increased at a rate of over 2 and 1/2 times the rate of inflation. This is for a decent plan. You still have co-pays and deductibles and there are still things that aren't covered. And in fact the co-pays and deductibles have seen some increases too.

Now I've heard all kinds of convoluted explanations for this but to me there is no other explanation than pure unbridled greed. And that's not just on the Insurance companies part either. The entire Health care industry is in on the feeding frenzy. Doctors, drug companies, medical supply providers, laboratories, etc. They are all raking it in with both lands.

 

[Knight]

What article? When and where was it published, and who wrote it?

Instead of cutting and pasting a small section why not go to post 58 of mine and click on the web site that has the entire article?

Single payer systems in place for years are experiencing difficulties, all I was pointing out is it's free to learn from what others are experiencing.

There is a projected shortage of primary care doctors now, with obesity, older less healthy population increasing, and the reality of additional people via a single payer system wouldn't it makes sense to look around our world to see what might work to minimize the problems in an American single payer system?

 

[Don M.]

There is a projected shortage of primary care doctors now, with obesity, older less healthy population increasing, and the reality of additional people via a single payer system wouldn't it makes sense to look around our world to see what might work to minimize the problems in an American single payer system?

What works in other nations might not be totally acceptable here, but there are certainly facets of other nations health plans that the U.S. could begin to incorporate, and eventually transition to a UHC plan that meets the needs of our people. A SP-UHC system would certainly require higher taxes, etc., to support such a program, but the end costs would most likely be a fraction of what we currently pay our "For Profit" system...with all its ridiculous premiums and co-pays, deductibles, etc., etc. I would rather pay 2 or 3 thousand more in annual taxes, than to be stuck with health insurance that costs $1,000 a month, and doesn't kick in until a $5,000 deductible is met.

 

[Trade]

What works in other nations might not be totally acceptable here, but there are certainly facets of other nations health plans that the U.S. could begin to incorporate, and eventually transition to a UHC plan that meets the needs of our people. A SP-UHC system would certainly require higher taxes, etc., to support such a program, but the end costs would most likely be a fraction of what we currently pay our "For Profit" system...with all its ridiculous premiums and co-pays, deductibles, etc., etc. I would rather pay 2 or 3 thousand more in annual taxes, than to be stuck with health insurance that costs $1,000 a month, and doesn't kick in until a $5,000 deductible is met.

Exactly. I can remember back when Kucinich was running (and polling about 1%) and someone asked him how he planned on paying for his proposed Universal Health Care plan and he answered "We are already paying for it". Something like 17% of our GNP goes for Heathcare right now and that's with leaving millions uninsured and millions more under insured. Canada is paying about 10% and they are covering everybody. So what's better? Paying Insurance companies and providers 17% in premiums and fees? Or paying the government 10% in taxes? Kind of a no brainer isn't it?

 

[Butterfly]

Isn't THAT the Truth! I seems that over the past 5 or 6 years, when I've visited the doctor, for the annual Medicare Wellness visit, etc., all he seems to do is play with his laptop as he enters any symptoms, etc. Heck, I can do that for myself by going to WebMD, or the Mayo Clinic web sites. Then, in the rare cases where I might have an issue, he just wants to refer me to a "specialist". I don't think he does anything but act as a "conduit" for the specialists. I've talked to several others who visit the same facility...they have 5 doctors, and are a extension of a very good hospital about 40 miles away...and everyone I talk to says the same thing about the doctor they visit. I'm beginning to think that if their laptops went down, they wouldn't be able to prescribe a bottle of aspirin.

And That's part of the problem, for sure. Referring people to specialists when their problem could easily be handled by a competent PCP. I do not want to waste time and money seeing a specialist (after waiting forever to do so) and a bunch of complicated (and often unpleasant) tests when the problem could be managed, at least initially, by the PCP. They're all so worried they'll get sued if you turn out to have Dengue Fever instead of the flu that everyone else has, that they want to do a battery of tests for everything that could possibly, in any scenario, be wrong. It's a waste of money and time.

I really think we need some reform of tort law to cut out some of the BS malpractice cases that are brought. In all the years I worked, I saw I don't know how many malpractice cases, and out of them there were only two that had any real merit. But, defending them costs the physician and his insurance carrier a boatload of money even if they win, and the doc's premiums go up, too. Maybe we do need some kind of "loser pays" law in relation to downright frivolous litigation.

 

[Camper6]

Instead of cutting and pasting a small section why not go to post 58 of mine and click on the web site that has the entire article?

Single payer systems in place for years are experiencing difficulties, all I was pointing out is it's free to learn from what others are experiencing.

There is a projected shortage of primary care doctors now, with obesity, older less healthy population increasing, and the reality of additional people via a single payer system wouldn't it makes sense to look around our world to see what might work to minimize the problems in an American single payer system?

All health plans are "experiencing difficulties" because they are all in transition and none are perfect or ever will be perfect.

You really cannot compare a small population such as Canada has to the U.S. with their huge population.

In order to make it work you have to cobble it down to individual states to come up with a system.

 

[WhatInThe]

All health plans are "experiencing difficulties" because they are all in transition and none are perfect or ever will be perfect.

You really cannot compare a small population such as Canada has to the U.S. with their huge population.

In order to make it work you have to cobble it down to individual states to come up with a system.

California's recent single payer health proposal would double the state budget.

https://calwatchdog.com/2017/05/23/...lth-care-california-cost-double-state-budget/

400 BILLION dollars a year

 

[Camper6]

California's recent single payer health proposal would double the state budget.

https://calwatchdog.com/2017/05/23/...lth-care-california-cost-double-state-budget/

400 BILLION dollars a year

California is about the same size as Canada in means of population.

So. What are they doing wrong?

Is the cost of dismantling the present system included? If it is it shouldn't be as that would be a one time cost.

Question costs and question them again and again. Anyone can throw out numbers without any backup.

See. You believe the numbers without question.

 

[Camper6]

California's recent single payer health proposal would double the state budget.

https://calwatchdog.com/2017/05/23/...lth-care-california-cost-double-state-budget/

400 BILLION dollars a year

California is about the same size as Canada in means of population.

So. What are they doing wrong?

Is the cost of dismantling the present system included? If it is it shouldn't be as that would be a one time cost.

Question costs and question them again and again. Anyone can throw out numbers without any backup.

See. You believe the numbers without question.

Canada spends about 140 billion.