What happened to pride in a job well done?

[debodun]

Years ago, craftsmen took pride in workmanship and detail. These days I haven't hired a contractor whose only interest was getting a job done a quickly as possible irregardless of what the result was.

For instance, I hired a painter to paint the front porch. He didn't strip the old, oil-based paint off and neither did he prime the old wood. He just painted latex over the old wood and paint. In a few months it started to flake and peel. Now it looks worse than before he painted. I think for $4000 he could have been more diligent, but like I said, he seemed in too much of a hurry.

 

[Grumpy Ol' Man]

I've been asked to give the keynote address at a graduation mid-August. The school is a technical school for disadvantage kids. This is a year-long program where the youth can learn carpentry, plumbing, concrete masonry, dental hygienist training and certification, and CNA training/certification. Work ethic and pride in what you leave behind will be the emphasis of my talk.

Working in the engineering/construction field for well over 40 years, I have seen a slow downturn in quality of work. Certainly, there have always been those who lack work ethic and are poor employees. It just seems to me that more and more are that way today. Maybe, it's just that I'm getting grumpier in my old age.

A recent project saw a small concrete pad constructed that a fiberglass control building would be placed on. The pad was approximately 35 feet long by 15 feet wide. The crew placing the concrete could have cared less if they did quality work. We had deviations in the floor of up to 1 1/2 inches. There was no way a building would have set on this pad and given shown any semblance of quality work. The solution was to place another 4" slab on top of the bad one, complete with resteel ties and epoxy between the pads. A nearby pad for a generator, then, had to be raised also. The cost to do the extra work was undoubtedly significant. And, of course, I caught a lot of grief for "pointing it out" and making them go to the time and expense of correcting it.

At home, we have had our bathrooms redone and our kitchen cabinets painted in the past couple of years. Both times, we were blessed with exceptional small contractors. I know that with small contractors, it can be like rolling the dice. Being in the field this long, I do understand some of the questions to ask and expect certain answers.

As far as your porch... Now it will probably cost more to blast off the incorrectly applied coating and rework than it would have cost to do the job correctly to begin with. With our kitchen cabinets, I went to the paint manufacturer and got their recommendations on surface prep and coating application. Then, I watched the contractor to make certain he did not deviate from those parameters. He did a remarkable job. My wife and I have recommended him for more work and he says those recommendations have resulted in more work than he can handle.

 

[debodun]

To Grumpy Ol' Man - if you are experienced in dealing with contractors and still get the shaft - what chance do the rest of us have?

 

[Flowerchild64]

I still take pride in doing any job as well as I can. That is my personal ethic, however, some people and companies seem to let that go by the wayside in their greed to make a profit regardless of shortcuts or shoddy work.

 

[debodun]

When I had my garage built, the contractor promised, and charged for, many things that were not done, like a new foundation. When I asked about it, he just said he ran into some unexpected over-costs (whatever that is), so unless I wanted to pay more, I'd have to "live with it". He also added to the bill because he said the doors and wiring weren't included in the original estimate. Seems they can find ways to add to the bill or cut costs after you've signed. And they have a pat answer for everything.

When I had my driveway paved, the contractor advertised $1000 for 1000 sq ft. My driveway is 10 feet wide and 100 ft long, so I hired him. When he was done, he handed me an invoice for $1600. I said "I thought you're ad said $1000." He replied that that was just for the paving, it didn't include removal of the old asphalt driveway, grading the area and laying the crushed stone.

 

[Phoenix]

We can't even find people around here to do stuff. The plumber across the street is in his mid thirties and does a good job. He says he has a hard time finding people in the area, even those who need the money to actually work.

 

[debodun]

We can't even find people around here to do stuff. The plumber across the street is in his mid thirties and does a good job. He says he has a hard time finding people in the area, even those who need the money to actually work.

I also have a plumber up the street that's highly sought after and pricey, but he never returns my calls.

 

[NancyNGA]

As to just the porch... I also have a front porch. It is all wood, including a wainscotting board ceiling, probably near 100 years old.

I could NEVER get paint to stick to that. Hired a guy I know who took special pains priming it, putting special additives to the paint, etc.... Still, after 6 months the paint started to peel. After about the 4th attempt, I finally gave up and covered it in vinyl with the same wainscotting pattern. Problem finally solved.

As to how rushed they appear to be, I look at it from their point of view. Apparently most customers that hire small contractors always try to pay the least they can, and are late on paying that. I can tell by their behavior before we even make a deal. The only way they can make out is to do lots of jobs. This means they have to rush, because time is money.

I prefer to hire someone by the hour, instead of a lump sum, because my house is old, and most don't foresee problems that always arise. That way you can also make slight modifications after they start the project. Most don't want to work by the hour, mainly because they never have before. (After it's all over many understand why they should have ). It is a bit risky, because you might run into someone that purposely goes too slow, but I've never run into that, in fact.

 

[Grumpy Ol' Man]

To Grumpy Ol' Man - if you are experienced in dealing with contractors and still get the shaft - what chance do the rest of us have?

That's probably why I'm still working... called back to work... at age 69. When the firm called a few weeks ago about this present project, my response was... You can't afford me!! Well, here I am. During my tenure with the firm, I've been chased by a carpenter with a claw hammer, had the air let out of the tires on my vehicle, had a concrete vibrator thrown at me, been physically threatened, and I love my work!!!! I have learned, over the years, how to either get contractors to give us the project a client has paid big bucks for... or tear it out and redo it or not get paid. I've shut off monthly pay requests totaling in the millions of dollars. That most generally gets the attention of upper management and they, in turn, get the attention of their field crews. Few younger folks today will put up with what I do and will either allow the contractors to perform shoddy work or they will quit.
I will trust no contractor!! They are all human. They will make mistakes. Everyone does. And, many will attempt shortcuts. That's why I check with coating manufacturer before a painter touches our kitchen cabinets. That's why I pick out my own faucets, toilets, etc. for our bathroom remodel. That's why I stood by while the contractor placed concrete for our driveway. Most homeowners are entirely too trusting... or simply do not have the experience to know the right questions to ask.

This current project has a contractor supposed to be 23% done by the end of this week and he is less than 1%. Dewatering an excavation 36 FT deep has taken any profitability for him out of this job. Even before we begin bringing concrete up out of the hole, he's losing money. Therefore, even though a reputable contractor, he will be wanting to make up for the early losses. I can guarantee you, we WILL deliver a project to this City that will give them many years of excellent service. There will be some "head-butting" along the way. I've told the firm that this is my "swan song". Not ONE HOUR more after this project is delivered. I'll be 70 1/2 by then and should be doing nothing but playing golf and sitting in my recliner. Instead, I'm climbing 30 FT banks and building a 3 million gallon per day sewage pumping station. Did I say, "I LOVE my work!!!"

 

[fuzzybuddy]

debodum;
I'm sorry, but you're responsible for the shoddy work. You hired them, you could have fire them at any time. You were the boss. I'm not trying to be harsh or put you down, but you didn't do your job as a boss. It sounds as though you didn't even have anything in writing. You were the one, who accepted shoddy workmanship. You can't "rely on the kindness of strangers". Please. Please, Go out and get the book, "Hiring Contractors Without Going Through Hell", by Ellis Levinson. Unless you stop being an easy mark, you're going to be repeatedly ripped off. Please don't let that happen.

 

[Butterfly]

I would point out that it is VERY important to read the little bitty print on any contract you sign, and be sure you understand it, and ask a zillion questions -- like, is this the COMPLETE job? Is there anything that isn't included? Etc.

 

[debodun]

It sounds as though you didn't even have anything in writing.

I had a written contract, but it seems "Paint front porch" can be interpreted many ways (i.e. what materials will be used, what process is used).

 

[Myquest55]

To answer the title question I would think it is because the New Age children have been praised for just showing up, all their lives. Their self esteem was at risk so they always had positive re-enforcement. They never had to work for anything much less praise for accomplishment.

I realize that there were children out there that had nothing but negative energy and parents who yelled at them but really??? You would think that average middle class parents would have had more sense but....here we are.

I agree about reading a contract - OR - you should have stopped that painter before he got too far and made him re-do it - at the beginning. I am always careful when contractors work at my house. I ask them tons of questions along the way but it is always done to my satisfaction. For $4000 I would have been out there at his elbow the entire time. When I was young, single, living alone in another state, away from my family, I was always wary of being taken advantage of. I knew NOTHING about cars so when my car needed to be fixed I asked around and took it to the place with the most recommendations. When I picked it up, at the end of the day, I always asked the mechanic to SHOW me what he did to fix it. I am pretty sure that made him nervous but he was always careful to go over everything with me. I brought them a big box of cookies at the holidays and I think they were sad when I had to move away.

You have to educate yourself about everything these days! Go to the paint store and ask them about what has to be done - then you know what the painter needs to do and make sure he does it. Same with hospitals, car repair, finance, you name it - you cannot just assume that "Professionals" are the real deal and know what they're doing. Ask more questions.

 

[HazyDavey]

When I finished grading a gravel road, it was there to see for anybody who drove on it. I always tried to do my best work knowing that graded road was a signature of my work ethic. Plus, there was a lot of nice folks who used those roads and depended on me to do a good job.

 

[tnthomas]

I had a written contract, but it seems "Paint front porch" can be interpreted many ways (i.e. what materials will be used, what process is used).

Yes, can be interpreted many ways, so that's why getting the details nailed down in writing is important. As for choosing a contractor, I prefer to hire someone that has a good reputation, someone people I know have used. If that's not possible, I'll find a local contractor, and check to make sure he is licensed and bonded on the state contractor license board. Also a check on review sites like Yelp might prove valuable as well, however, you might have to take what's said with a grain of salt. Angie's list is a paid for review site that homeowners rate the services of various contractors they've hired. I don't know how fair or accurate the reviews are, but I do that homeowners in general are more critical that commercial customers.

 

[debodun]

Go to the paint store and ask them about what has to be done - then you know what the painter needs to do and make sure he does it.

The paint he used came in 10 gallon drums. I asked why he didn't prime before painting and he said that the primer was in the paint. Paint? Ha! It was more like whitewash. I also asked why he didn't strip the old paint; answer - "That old paint might have lead in it and I'm not licensed to dispose of that."

My next door neighbor's porch was about as old as mine and probably just as dry rotted - instead of getting a carpenter and painter, he just had a new porch put on. That was about 4 years ago and I see the shingles are curling and in places it looks like it pulling away from the house.

 

[Robusta]

I had a written contract, but it seems "Paint front porch" can be interpreted many ways (i.e. what materials will be used, what process is used).

I hate to pile on, but "Paint front porch" is not a contract!

It should say something to effect of: Paint front porch to include scraping, repair of damaged components, covering of plantings landscaping and furnishings. Priming of all wood and paint.
Any unforeseen circumstances will be discussed and estimate adjusted accordingly.

Contract should also contain a timeline,a list of materials, a cost breakdown, materials ,supplies, and labor.


Not having a concise contract in no way is an excuse for a poor job,but it does severely limit your ability to be made whole.

 

[fuzzybuddy]

"Paint the porch" is totally inadequate. You know that. You did not want to cause a fracas with that big, important business man. So you got taken, because you let yourself be taken. I can't stress enough that you go out and get the book, "Hiring Contractors Without Going Through Hell", by Ellis Levinson. It's on Amazon for one cent. With a home that size, you are going to require constant upkeep. If you keep doing what you are doing that house is going to sap you of all your money, and you'll loose the home. That big important business man is YOUR employee, it is your job to tell him exactly what you want done. If that big important business man calls you a "bitch", you're doing your job.
How do I know what I'm taking about? 20 years ago, I accepted poor workmanship. I didn't realize that they work for me, and they had to do exactly what I want done. And because I didn't, it's going to cost me $25-30,000 to fix what should have been done 20 years ago. AND I GOT THE BOOK!!!!!

BTW, Totally off topic- have you noticed how many people have cat pics as avatars.

 

[debodun]

"Paint the porch" is totally inadequate. You did not want to cause a fracas with that big, important business man.

He started work before he gave me a copy of the contract. I kept asking for a itand he said his printer was broken. I had to threaten him to obtain it and when he mailed it to me it was so dark, I could hardly read it.

 

[fuzzybuddy]

debodun;
Gee, it came as a complete surprise that this guy did shoddy work, considering he was the only house painter within a hundred miles. And why do I get the feeling it was a lot cheaper painting over the lead paint than the ungodly expense of stripping away the bio-hazard lead paint.?