What if the government borrowed and invested?

Murrmurr said:
I remember now; I was thinking of border security, immigration, and immigration services.
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There most likely no shortage of digital moneys in the foreseeable future.
But why didn't the Donald rename the Gulf of U.S. The Fed steals, no need to borrow.
 

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papa tiger said:
I noticed we have a $150 Trillion Dollar nest egg in the ground of the USA.

The "$150 trillion American birthright" refers to claims made by financial commentator Jim Rickards about a vast national wealth potentially accessible to Americans, based on a legal provision in U.S. law. Copper reserves are incredible even tho there is a shortage now.

Background of the Claim​

Jim Rickards, a financial commentator, asserts that a provision in Title 30 of the U.S. Code, established by the 42nd Congress in 1872, has created a "national trust fund" that has accumulated approximately $150 trillion in mineral wealth over the years. This claim suggests that this wealth is largely untapped and could be unlocked for the benefit of American citizens.
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Here's the summary of that claim: Rickards sells subscriptions to his market prediction newsletter for financial gain, and his claims are often sensational and misleading. He quoted the $150 trillion figure without citing any sources, credible or otherwise, and directed viewers to companies he has investments in.
 
papa tiger said:
There most likely no shortage of digital moneys in the foreseeable future.
But why didn't the Donald rename the Gulf of U.S.
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I don't know....doesn't a president have to have congressional agreement before they go renaming stuff?

I think so, or he probly would have renamed my state Loserville long time ago.
 

bobcat said:
I agree. There are plenty who don't want to kill the goose that's eating all their grain as long as it's laying them another egg. In addition, everyone kicks the can down the road because the solution is unpalatable with the majority of society. It's an unfortunate situation where a politician's main goal is to get re-elected. To do that, they must tell the public what they want to hear.

Nevertheless, most can understand on a personal level, that there is a difference between what you want and what you can afford. If it's not in the budget, then you settle for what is. Not using that mindset when it comes to governing a country has led us to this mess. There was an adage from years ago that said: "When the government takes responsibility for the people, the people stop taking responsibility for themselves". I think it was a spinoff from Thomas Jefferson's philosophy that too much government interferes with autonomy. It's always a delicate balance.

Whatever the case, once a problem gets to enormous proportions, finding a solution is almost impossible (Climate change comes to mind). Is it too late to deflect this financial killer asteroid without blowing up our economy in the process. I think most in power don't want to risk being the ones to blame for that. It's easier to just point fingers at someone else. I think it's time to realize that identifying a problem isn't the same as finding a solution. Maybe it's a Hail Mary pass.
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Sadly (!) we get the government we deserve. We have also taken the basic principles of capitalism and applied it to all and everything, as though it is the only way to operate in every circumstance. This has led to money invading the decision making on a national scale. Money needs to be removed from the process, but the only people that can make that happen are the people profiting from it, so.......

Once you've lived long enough, it becomes clear that tribal politics does not lead to good solutions. Instead it divides and confuses simple issues. Like claims of nationalism - sure there are instances nearer the bottom of the ocean that can engender national pride, but the roots of the system are rotten and corrupted, can we truly be proud of that?

Can we be proud of our democracies, but in the end has that brought us to optimal solutions? Or even close? I guess I'm more fatalistic these days. We're getting ready (via the great equalizer known as death) to hand over this world to younger folk. I'm not especially proud of the systems of governing we are going to leave behind.
 
VaughanJB said:
Can we be proud of our democracies, but in the end has that brought us to optimal solutions? Or even close? I guess I'm more fatalistic these days. We're getting ready (via the great equalizer known as death) to hand over this world to younger folk. I'm not especially proud of the systems of governing we are going to leave behind.
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A capitalist economy with a democratic governance is superior to any of the alternatives, imo, particularly for a country the size of the US. The problem isn't the system; as with every system that exists, the problem is corruptible/greedy politicians. We need a system for regulating and auditing them that isn't corruptible...but guess who gets to decide how that system works and who's involved?
 
Actually, it's the EPA and California / Illinois etc. mostly Democratic Parties & their laws.
A few years ago, Illionois wouldn't let us dig until an impact study was done for arrowheads.
And our governance isn't actually democratic, its majority screws the minority. State Govs.
Fed. Gov. Screw U policies. Nothing fair. Scotus proves this today. It's all about majorities.
Party in power draws up voting districts, says who can vote etc. The Constitutions have become a joke.

The Donalds getting told to go F himself in negotiations. Pack of lies is all his self says.

Actually Tribal politics has become very self-improving. Look at the Gambling casinos.
 
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VaughanJB said:
Sadly (!) we get the government we deserve. We have also taken the basic principles of capitalism and applied it to all and everything, as though it is the only way to operate in every circumstance. This has led to money invading the decision making on a national scale. Money needs to be removed from the process, but the only people that can make that happen are the people profiting from it, so.......

Once you've lived long enough, it becomes clear that tribal politics does not lead to good solutions. Instead it divides and confuses simple issues. Like claims of nationalism - sure there are instances nearer the bottom of the ocean that can engender national pride, but the roots of the system are rotten and corrupted, can we truly be proud of that?

Can we be proud of our democracies, but in the end has that brought us to optimal solutions? Or even close? I guess I'm more fatalistic these days. We're getting ready (via the great equalizer known as death) to hand over this world to younger folk. I'm not especially proud of the systems of governing we are going to leave behind.
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Yes, the "United We Stand" concept has been replaced with Partisan Power. Congressional cohesion in solving problems has given way to political performance and extreme division resembling a dysfunctional family. Even the methods we use to deal with issues are in themselves devoid of wisdom. If a bill is introduced, by the time it gets to the voting stage, it becomes so corrupted with numerous other appropriations that it holds hostage the original proposal unless all the other pork is agreed to. That's nonsense.

Anyway, enough armchair political criticism, and back to the topic at hand. Our ship is taking on water (Debt), and it's just a matter of time before we suffer the fate of the Titanic. Currently, if anyone in power decides to take a wrecking ball to bloated government, they will get roasted in the media and risk instigating a recessionary spiral. Putting one's career at risk isn't very popular these days, so denying the elephant in the room has become the mindset of choice. So, what do we do?
 
Murrmurr said:
A capitalist economy with a democratic governance is superior to any of the alternatives, imo, particularly for a country the size of the US. The problem isn't the system; as with every system that exists, the problem is corruptible/greedy politicians. We need a system for regulating and auditing them that isn't corruptible...but guess who gets to decide how that system works and who's involved?
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Agreed. It's like cows being relied upon to fix their own fences. The motivation seems to be in short supply.
 
bobcat said:
. So, what do we do?
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Depending on what anyone's age is they can prepare as best as possible for what is coming. That depends on if they aren't foolish & believe nothing bad will happen.

We can best guess now when the agony of collapse will begin. I'm guessing around 2032.
 
bobcat said:
Yes, the "United We Stand" concept has been replaced with Partisan Power. Congressional cohesion in solving problems has given way to political performance and extreme division resembling a dysfunctional family. Even the methods we use to deal with issues are in themselves devoid of wisdom. If a bill is introduced, by the time it gets to the voting stage, it becomes so corrupted with numerous other appropriations that it holds hostage the original proposal unless all the other pork is agreed to. That's nonsense.

Anyway, enough armchair political criticism, and back to the topic at hand. Our ship is taking on water (Debt), and it's just a matter of time before we suffer the fate of the Titanic. Currently, if anyone in power decides to take a wrecking ball to bloated government, they will get roasted in the media and risk instigating a recessionary spiral. Putting one's career at risk isn't very popular these days, so denying the elephant in the room has become the mindset of choice. So, what do we do?
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I don't agree that "we got the government we deserve." Most of us work our arses off, obey the laws, buy the crap we're supposed to, and pay our taxes on time. We deserve a lot better. When I hear "the system is rigged," I lean toward believing it.

I don't have much faith in America's 20 and 30-somethings, and our 40-somethings seem so stuck in the 90s (admittedly, a great time to be a kid), they don't even care about what's going on today. But I see signs of brilliance in loads of kids approaching age 18...and as young as 13! They're kind of phenomenal, if you pay attention.

Looking at them, I honestly think we might be seeing that wrecking ball.
 
Just go digital.

The unbelievable funds are aware & really due to that thing called
mother nature.

What's in the ground and Mother nature's treasures. Unlimited is what it is.
All else is total B.S if you want to believe spread it.

What does the fed complain about, Cash and Checks written.
 
Just why do you think you do not own all the ground under your home to the center of the earth anymore.
Ahh duh. Its for sale eventually to China. Most likely $$$$$$$$ Trillions in the next 100 years.

You once owned all but not anymore. The US Fed does.
 
Murrmurr said:
I don't agree that "we got the government we deserve." Most of us work our arses off, obey the laws, buy the crap we're supposed to, and pay our taxes on time. We deserve a lot better. When I hear "the system is rigged," I lean toward believing it.

I don't have much faith in America's 20 and 30-somethings, and our 40-somethings seem so stuck in the 90s (admittedly, a great time to be a kid), they don't even care about what's going on today. But I see signs of brilliance in loads of kids approaching age 18...and as young as 13! They're kind of phenomenal, if you pay attention.

Looking at them, I honestly think we might be seeing that wrecking ball.
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The Fed is a Monopoly of Repub's or Demo's. screw you if one is in power is the exact plan.
 
bobcat said:
Yes, the "United We Stand" concept has been replaced with Partisan Power. Congressional cohesion in solving problems has given way to political performance and extreme division resembling a dysfunctional family. Even the methods we use to deal with issues are in themselves devoid of wisdom. If a bill is introduced, by the time it gets to the voting stage, it becomes so corrupted with numerous other appropriations that it holds hostage the original proposal unless all the other pork is agreed to. That's nonsense.

Anyway, enough armchair political criticism, and back to the topic at hand. Our ship is taking on water (Debt), and it's just a matter of time before we suffer the fate of the Titanic. Currently, if anyone in power decides to take a wrecking ball to bloated government, they will get roasted in the media and risk instigating a recessionary spiral. Putting one's career at risk isn't very popular these days, so denying the elephant in the room has become the mindset of choice. So, what do we do?
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U really need to buy a decent cap bubba.
 
papa tiger said:
Just why do you think you do not own all the ground under your home to the center of the earth anymore.
Ahh duh. Its for sale eventually to China.
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Back in the 1870s the 18-Something or Other Mining Law was passed in Montana that you could buy a piece of land to build a house or pasture your horse, but the mineral rights belonged to the Anaconda Mining Company. The law is still in effect today. You buy a house, knowing that a mining company could file a claim and lay waste to your property if there was anything in the ground they wanted. Not all property was included, and I don't know why, but over the years I bought three properties, all with easements for mining.

The law had become so one sided and untenable, that to make a point, an environmental group filed a mining claim on the 9th hole of some golf course. Now to keep a mining claim, you must actively do something to show purpose, so the group threatened to build a cabin on the area as a base for starting exploration. It was all entirely legal and yes, some feathers were ruffled, but they never built the cabin, because they just wanted to point something out. Nothing about the law changed, but legally, they could have followed through with the destruction.

Make sure you clearly understand the title to the property before you decide to sign. You may not own what you think you bought.
 
JustDave said:
Back in the 1870s the 18-Something or Other Mining Law was passed in Montana that you could buy a piece of land to build a house or pasture your horse, but the mineral rights belonged to the Anaconda Mining Company. The law is still in effect today. You buy a house, knowing that a mining company could file a claim and lay waste to your property if there was anything in the ground they wanted. Not all property was included, and I don't know why, but over the years I bought three properties, all with easements for mining.

The law had become so one sided and untenable, that to make a point, an environmental group filed a mining claim on the 9th hole of some golf course. Now to keep a mining claim, you must actively do something to show purpose, so the group threatened to build a cabin on the area as a base for starting exploration. It was all entirely legal and yes, some feathers were ruffled, but they never built the cabin, because they just wanted to point something out. Nothing about the law changed, but legally, they could have followed through with the destruction.

Make sure you clearly understand the title to the property before you decide to sign. You may not own what you think you bought.
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You're right Dave. I did some "digging" and in most cases the mineral rights are conveyed with the Trust Deed. However, that doesn't always hold water. If at any point in the history of that property, the mineral rights were separated, then from that day forward, the mineral rights are treated separately. It can be an arduous search to discover if they were ever severed.

That being said, even though someone may have mineral rights, there may be limitations to what they can do based on housing developments, population, and environmental impacts. But overall, as you found out, one can't be too careful.
 
bobcat said:
in most cases the mineral rights are conveyed with the Trust Deed. However, that doesn't always hold water.... based on housing developments, population, and environmental impacts.
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I've often wondered about that very thing. I actually asked the question to the lawyer who handled the transfer of the title to my property. His answer was unequivocal, possibly based on the property I owned, but I didn't go further. He said, "Yes, the mining rights to everything under your house are owned by the Anaconda Copper Company. Will they mine it? Let's hope not." As far as I know, that applied to the whole town that I lived in.

I did have an issue with what I thought was an abandoned railway roadbed of an old logging operation. I was told that by a local surveyor, but it turned out to be an irrigation ditch that had not been used for a hundred years. Some guy with a few acres of farmland about a mile below me informed me that he was going reopen the ditch and told me I should file for water rights so I could use the water on my three acres of wooded land.

My lawyer knew nothing about it, but researched it, and even though the easement was NOT listed on my title, this guy did have the rights to that ditch, which happened to run right under a corner of my house. Although, my lawyer told me not to worry, because he personally knew the guy with the primary rights, and told me he was always coming up with nutty ideas, but never following through on anything, and it would be cheaper for him to dig another well, than restore a hundred year old ditch. But water rights are a bit different than mining rights, and that story has nothing to to with the 1870s mining law.
 
Aunt Bea said:
Property ownership is just an illusion.

If you don’t believe me stop paying your taxes and see what happens. 😉🤭😂
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Maybe not an illusion, but a questionable contrivance of man. For 100,000 years of mankind's existence, no one owned the land they lived on, although they sometimes fought battles over who was hunting and gathering on it, I suppose.
 

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