What would you say when arguing for your involvement in your child's life, (go on sell yourself if you can - fun comments welcome)

grahamg

grahamg

Old codger
Location
South of Manchester, UK
The thought occurred to me whilst trying to draft an open letter to someone in authority in the UK about the interests of children and their parents post divorce, that anyone could be asked to justify their involvement with their child, and what they might choose to say(?)

Being serious for a moment all I believe should be necessary is to establish you've shown commitment to your child over a long period, and unless there is some good reason put forward against your involvement, then this should be sufficient to at least obtain qualified support.

However, if there are members with charming, and especially funny thoughts on the subject as to how you might sell yourself to your child, (or convince a sceptical official perhaps), then what would you say?

Such as this self deprecating suggestion: "I may not be much of a dad/mum, but my child can have all I've got"

Here is a few thought written into the lyrics of a now quite old song, by a singer enjoying a bit of a renaissance here:

 

grahamg said:
Such as this self deprecating suggestion: "I may not be much of a dad/mum, but my child can have all I've got"
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I can't really help with what I would say in this situation, but I can say that the "I may not be much of a dad/mum" is something I would definitely NOT say to an official deciding whether I get to spend time with my child or not. I'm thinking it wouldn't be good strategy to point out that I don't think I'm a good parent.
 
CallMeKate said:
I can't really help with what I would say in this situation, but I can say that the "I may not be much of a dad/mum" is something I would definitely NOT say to an official deciding whether I get to spend time with my child or not. I'm thinking it wouldn't be good strategy to point out that I don't think I'm a good parent.
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Well, although I'm sure you're right there, (but who knows, maybe you'd come across someone with a sense of humour! :cautious: ), I'm really thinking of "what could be said", rather than what "should be said".

Here is a woman that tried it though:
https://slate.com/human-interest/2016/10/im-not-a-great-mother-but-im-a-great-dad.html

Quote;
"I admit that, by many people’s standards, I am probably not a good mom. Which is a little depressing. I am not even sure how to become a good mom. However, I tell people—if you’d like to focus on the positive for a moment—I am a great dad.

All the things a great dad would do with his son are things I do! I put my son in a blanket and then spin the blanket around like a centrifuge because he totally loves when I do that, even though there is a chance he could get hurt. I encourage his fascination with slugs. I happily let him fill his pockets with rocks and bring them home, even though it means our hardwood floors are constantly being eroded by gravel. Sometimes we sword-fight each other using those long, wooden paint-stirring sticks Home Depot keeps giving us.

I don’t cook much, since it seems crazy to spend so much time cooking when we could be doing other things. But we eat dinner together every night, even if sometimes it is only kidney beans out of a can, and I taught him the “Beans, Beans, the Magical Fruit” song, which he enthusiastically sings to anyone who will listen and often to people who won’t. Occasionally I dress him in outfits that do not match or possibly have stains on them, and the other day I bought him a sound effects machine that makes 16 fun noises—among them a cash register going Cha-ching, a lady doing a horror movie scream, (Break)

My favorite part of being a good dad is that I am allowed to make mistakes, which is fantastic because I make mistakes all the time. I am always self-conscious when people watch my mothering, because mothers are expected to have some sort of instinct that I am not sure I possess."
 

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Quite simply....I am the better parent and therefore the best choice to raise my child. I promise to stick to the document I was forced to sign which required me not to interfere with their Catholic upbringing. However, I shall broaden their minds by instructing them in the true teachings of Jesus.
 
Would some "dad jokes" help:

  1. When does a joke become a dad joke? When it becomes apparent!
  2. What did the buffalo say to his son when he dropped him off at school? Bison.
  3. Two goldfish are in a tank. One says to the other, "Do you know how to drive this thing?"
 
In any civilized country that I'm aware of a parents right of access to their child is assured by the courts as part of the divorce process unless sufficient, strong evidence to prevent access by one parent is presented to and approved by the court.

Beyond the legal issues I believe that child's wishes should also be taken into consideration, assuming the child is of sufficient age to make their wishes known. All human relationships are a two way street. If one party is an unwilling participant then there simply is no relationship.
 
What does in take to be a "winner" in our society, or be thought of as being a winner?

I ask because the thought occurs to me whilst trying to think what you might say to sell yourself as a parent.

Here is a quick list of things I've come up with I'd suggest are possible characteristics of those thought of as winner, or who do appear to do well in life, (some deliberately controversial comments):

1). Strong minded
2). Wealthy
3). Out going
4). Egotistical, (or able to self promote)
5). Ruthless
6). Energetic
7). Doesn't suffer fools gladly
8). Ambitious
9). Can spot an opportunity
10). Cool
 
MrPants said:
In any civilized country that I'm aware of a parents right of access to their child is assured by the courts as part of the divorce process unless sufficient, strong evidence to prevent access by one parent is presented to and approved by the court.
Beyond the legal issues I believe that child's wishes should also be taken into consideration, assuming the child is of sufficient age to make their wishes known. All human relationships are a two way street. If one party is an unwilling participant then there simply is no relationship.
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I'll try to avoid getting entangled in too much legal language because that isn't the focus of this thread, but here in the UK there are no statutory legal rights for parents.
Children's views obviously do come into the discussion, and again I dont want to go into all the possible aspects of their situation, and instead maintain the focus of the thread, and if you can be drawn into answering the question posed as to how you might sell yourself it would be much appreciated. :)
 
grahamg said:
What does in take to be a "winner" in our society, or be thought of as being a winner?
I ask because the thought occurs to me whilst trying to think what you might say to sell yourself as a parent.

Here is a quick list of things I've come up with I'd suggest are possible characteristics of those thought of as winner, or who do appear to do well in life, (some deliberately controversial comments):

1). Strong minded
2). Wealthy
3). Out going
4). Egotistical, (or able to self promote)
5). Ruthless
6). Energetic
7). Doesn't suffer fools gladly
8). Ambitious
9). Can spot an opportunity
10). Cool
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More on what it is said to take to be a winner:
  • Winners are good leaders, with a great sense of responsibility. ...
  • Winners are risk-takers. ...
  • They have great strengths in making decisions. ...
  • Winners are good at overcoming challenges. ...
  • Winners have a positive attitude. ...
  • They're flexible and adaptable. ...
  • They learn from their mistakes.
Confidence.1.jpg
 
Here is an interesting take on things:
https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/parents-who-do-everything-for-their-child

Quote:
"Help them manage their own emotions. We often do things for our kids so they won't feel rejection or emotional pain. But trying to shield them raises questions"

And this one:
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/well/guide-to-modern-parenting

Quote:
All parents have in common the wish to raise children who are good people. You surely care about how your child will treat others, and how he or she will act in the world.
 
"What is a man, what has he got, if not....., then not a lot, (selling himself again!)"

Quote:
"… I've loved, I've laughed and cried
I've had my fill; my share of losing
And now, as tears subside
I find that it's all so amusing

… And to think I did all that
And may I say - not in a shy way
"Oh no, oh no, not me
I did it my way"

… For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, then he has naught
Naught to say the things that he truly feels
And not the words of someone who kneels
That record shows I took all the blows
And did it my way!"

328974913_574701737623734_2278555420906747903_n.jpg
 
Something else to think about when considering a child's wishes:
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and...want-to-go-to-school-what-do-you-do-1.4029757

Quote:
""Parents often feel powerless," says Rita O'Reilly, manager of Parentline, which receives a significant number of calls about school refusal. "If a teenager says they don't want to go to school – what do you do?""

School absences by numbers​

- 60,000 students miss school each day
- 5.6 per cent absentee rate in primary schools
- 7.9 per cent non-attendance in post-primary schools
- 20 days or more missed in a year by a child must be reported by the school to the statutory Educational Welfare Services of Tusla
- 65,800 primary school students miss more than 20 days
- 51,700 post-primary students miss more than 20 days
Source: Tusla and school attendance data from primary and post-primary schools in Ireland in 2016/17
 
I believe a parent and/or dad should protect their child. The child's wellbeing should be very important to that parent.

I can't tell you how much that matters.
 
grahamg said:
Something else to think about when considering a child's wishes:
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and...want-to-go-to-school-what-do-you-do-1.4029757

Quote:
""Parents often feel powerless," says Rita O'Reilly, manager of Parentline, which receives a significant number of calls about school refusal. "If a teenager says they don't want to go to school – what do you do?""

School absences by numbers​

- 60,000 students miss school each day
- 5.6 per cent absentee rate in primary schools
- 7.9 per cent non-attendance in post-primary schools
- 20 days or more missed in a year by a child must be reported by the school to the statutory Educational Welfare Services of Tusla
- 65,800 primary school students miss more than 20 days
- 51,700 post-primary students miss more than 20 days
Source: Tusla and school attendance data from primary and post-primary schools in Ireland in 2016/17
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Well son, I am sorry to hear that. Your chair must be filled by law, so I will go on down and take your seat. It will be so much fun to get to know your classmates, go to marching band practice, I bet everyone will have a good laugh since I can't play an instrument. Should I pack a lunch or what do they have that is good? Should I wear my black skirt and heels or go with my jeans and leather knee high boots?
 
Single mom of 3 teens. When they graduated from school, they could live at home ONLY IF THEY CONTINUE THEIR EDUCATION. My daughter and one son had no problem with going to University; one son instead of going to Uni went to live with his Dad in the next province.

His Dad told him he had to find a job (ie no free lunches LOLOL). After 6 months of hard labour he returned and enrolled at the University in this area.
 
Remy said:
I believe a parent and/or dad should protect their child. The child's wellbeing should be very important to that parent.

I can't tell you how much that matters.
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If it were not the case there wouldn't be much to argue about would there, (and yet here we are trying to focus upon just how many get denigrated unjustly, and sidelined).

A bit of humour is worth keeping in mind however:
Own way3.jpg
 
My most recent attempt to write an "open letter" concerning my arguments in favour of fathers/parents:

Dear Sir,

I am writing as a father who has been excluded from his child’s life for over twenty five years, though I had managed to maintain contact with her for ten years after my marriage failed.

My child has gone on to have a very successful professional and married life, so this very welcome outcome makes my argument those parents in my position deserve more support when they approach our family courts, obviously harder to sustain.

My argument is that suspecting you will not be supported by court officials under no obligation to do so, undermines the parent’s faith in themselves. Being blamed for not doing enough to maintain enjoyable contact with your child is too little a justification for those in authority to use against you. Other justifications based on assumptions about your relationship with your child, even if based in part on comments by your child, may not be fair assessments either.

However, my belief is a parent who has shown long-term commitment to their child deserves the courts support as a recognition of their effort, and the parents feelings about being excluded should on occasion take precedence over other considerations.

I do not claim to understand why one of the provision in the Children’s Act 1989 has not been brought in (allowing a rebuttable presumption in favour of contact for decent parents), though can accept those in authority have formed a view that on balance the measure parliament introduced should not be enacted.

It is perhaps true that my child rejecting all contact could not have been prevented, though my hope is those parents facing a similar situation now have a better chance than I did, and more than one way forward could be found more often than it was. I think I had the right to believe I was as unique to my child as any parent is to their child (and vice versa naturally), and undermining this aspect is harmful. By treating a parent showing such commitment in the same way as someone who did not is to undermine them.

When efforts are quite rightly made in this country to assist the lot of children growing up here, welcome though all that is, I do not believe you can ever make up for the child not thinking they were loved by their parent, and going along with that thinking is the need for greater support for the parent.

I look for whatever support or recognition you are able to provide, and thank you for reading this letter.
 
Nobody in bureaucracy reads letters. I complain about AccessARide many times and no matter what I say I get the same response back, a form letter supposed to cover all problems. I read your letter though. You write beautifully but all the letters in the world don't change things.
 
Pepper said:
Nobody in bureaucracy reads letters. I complain about AccessARide many times and no matter what I say I get the same response back, a form letter supposed to cover all problems. I read your letter though. You write beautifully but all the letters in the world don't change things.
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Thanks for the compliment, and whilst I agree as to what use there is sending such a letter to anyone, I do feel any kind of acknowledgement is a satisfactory conclusion.
I once wrote to Nelson Mandela (or the Nelson Mandela foundation at least), and received a very courteous response I felt very pleased about. :)
 

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