Where does God live?

[Elsie]

When I began the thread, it was to ask the question, where do you believe God lives. Obviously, if you don't believe in such, then the question is largely irrelevant with regard to you. If you do believe in a God, then where do you believe he lives. Is it in a heavenly dwelling (If so, then where), or in your mind (If so, where), or in another dimension that somehow interacts with ours.

God being omnipresent, I assume is everywhere. In no designated place. The third part of His Being is the Holy Spirit which will join within our souls, if we acknowledge not only that God exists, but accepts Him & His Son Christ Jesus into our lives. It's unrepentant evil in some people that of their own doing keeps out the Holy Spirit.,

.......If you believe he exists in the hearts (Minds) of believers, then where in the brain (A collection of neurons, a thought, or a locality in the brain)? How does a spirit live in the brain? Perhaps it might exist as energy that flows through your entire body. Usually a vague answer means "I'm not sure", which is OK if you're really not sure.

Beliefs aren't facts, but it's still OK to have them, as long as we know the difference.

 

[MACKTEXAS]

I believe the original purpose of our discussion was to determine his place of residence, rather than delve into the origins of everything. However, the conversation has veered slightly toward the topic of creation. My stance, which remains unchanged, is that we lack sufficient information to form an informed conclusion. While I wholeheartedly respect your belief that God created everything, I personally find that perspective implausible, despite its widespread acceptance. My intention in this thread is not to challenge anyone's beliefs.

That was nicely said. It is most unlikely that there will ever be "sufficient information to form an informed conclusion", at least not in the foreseeable future. The best we can hope for is to balance what we understand of evolutionism and creationism, and decide which side (or what combination of the two sides) is most plausible to us as individuals, based on what information we do have.

I found this: "According to the Pew Research Center, 62 percent of adults in the United States accept human evolution while 34 percent of adults believe that humans have always existed in their present form."

The evolutionist explanation of how humans developed such emotions as love, hate, evil, good, and similar attributes through random mutations over time in order to equip them for survival of the fittest is implausible to me, as well as how the human body just by time and chance developed to generally work in perfect harmony.

It takes faith to believe in either side, and for those who think they choose to go with the facts, rather than faith, they do, nonetheless live by faith to some degree every day. Every time they drive down a road, they have a certain faith the car on the other side coming toward them will stay in it's lane, faith the sun will continue to rise and set, and at least a certain level of faith they can make tomorrow's plans to play golf based on the weather forecast they hear this evening.

Some have faith that science has all the answers as to how we all got here, yet some of the very same ones have decided not to get vaccinated because of their LACK of faith in the science that created the vaccine. So, they pick and choose where to place their faith.

If you believe that God is omnipresent, then do you believe he lives in the mind of evil people as well as the good? If not, then he is not omnipresent, but selective, and you must also believe he exists in spiritual form, and not in a designated place. So the question is, if you believe in a God, where specifically do you believe he exists.

The Bible teaches that man is made in God's image, indicating that God does indeed have a physical being, but it also teaches that God is a Spirit, and God's Spirit is omnipresent - not confined to Heaven or the minds of people, whether good or evil.

Christians believe God's spirit directs them in their daily lives, and they generally believe God's Spirit works with unbelievers to draw them in to repentance.

I don't know the location of Heaven, Bobcat, nor will anyone else who posts here. But when the Bible speaks of the throne of God, and gives graphic descriptions of Heaven in many passages, this indicates it is a very real place. Just because the exact location has not been revealed to us, says nothing to prove or disprove it's existence.

 

[Elsie]

Christians believe God's spirit directs them in their daily lives, and they generally believe God's Spirit works with unbelievers to draw them in to repentance.

I don't know the location of Heaven, Bobcat, nor will anyone else who posts here. But when the Bible speaks of the throne of God, and gives graphic descriptions of Heaven in many passages, this indicates it is a very real place. Just because the exact location has not been revealed to us, says nothing to prove or disprove it's existence.

I gotta admit, Christians don't always follow the Holly Spirit's "nudging" within them to do or not do the right/good thing. God in many ways gives unbelievers outward (good) signs in their lives that He exists, but their minds are too closed off to "see" them.

 

[MACKTEXAS]

I gotta admit, Christians don't always follow the Holly Spirit's "nudging" within them to do or not do the right/good thing. God in many ways gives unbelievers outward (good) signs in their lives that He exists, but their minds are too closed off to "see" them.

God leaves those choices to each of us.

 

[bobcat]

That was nicely said. It is most unlikely that there will ever be "sufficient information to form an informed conclusion", at least not in the foreseeable future. The best we can hope for is to balance what we understand of evolutionism and creationism, and decide which side (or what combination of the two sides) is most plausible to us as individuals, based on what information we do have.

I found this: "According to the Pew Research Center, 62 percent of adults in the United States accept human evolution while 34 percent of adults believe that humans have always existed in their present form."

The evolutionist explanation of how humans developed such emotions as love, hate, evil, good, and similar attributes through random mutations over time in order to equip them for survival of the fittest is implausible to me, as well as how the human body just by time and chance developed to generally work in perfect harmony.

It takes faith to believe in either side, and for those who think they choose to go with the facts, rather than faith, they do, nonetheless live by faith to some degree every day. Every time they drive down a road, they have a certain faith the car on the other side coming toward them will stay in it's lane, faith the sun will continue to rise and set, and at least a certain level of faith they can make tomorrow's plans to play golf based on the weather forecast they hear this evening.

Some have faith that science has all the answers as to how we all got here, yet some of the very same ones have decided not to get vaccinated because of their LACK of faith in the science that created the vaccine. So, they pick and choose where to place their faith.


The Bible teaches that man is made in God's image, indicating that God does indeed have a physical being, but it also teaches that God is a Spirit, and God's Spirit is omnipresent - not confined to Heaven or the minds of people, whether good or evil.

Christians believe God's spirit directs them in their daily lives, and they generally believe God's Spirit works with unbelievers to draw them in to repentance.

I don't know the location of Heaven, Bobcat, nor will anyone else who posts here. But when the Bible speaks of the throne of God, and gives graphic descriptions of Heaven in many passages, this indicates it is a very real place. Just because the exact location has not been revealed to us, says nothing to prove or disprove it's existence.

Well if heaven does exist as a place, it seems it would be in another dimension or perhaps in locations telescopes can't see (Black holes, dark matter, etc...). However, if you go with the Bible's prophesy, there will be a new heaven and a new earth, which would make one wonder what is wrong with the old heaven.

I am assuming from your answer that God also lives in the brain, but still not clear where in the gray matter. From what I can gather, a lot, if not all of the belief of God residing in the brain is based on feelings. That doesn't mean it couldn't be true, but that's my understanding anyway.

If God is an energy form, then it may exist in the brain, as well as the rest of the body, but not sure how that would communicate with you in any way, other than sensations.

 

[JustDave]

God in many ways gives unbelievers outward (good) signs in their lives that He exists, but their minds are too closed off to "see" them.

Do you understand that is a perception that works in both directions?

 

[Elsie]

Do you understand that is a perception that works in both directions.

Explain please.

 

[MACKTEXAS]

[1] Well if heaven does exist as a place, it seems it would be in another dimension or perhaps in locations telescopes can't see (Black holes, dark matter, etc...). However, if you go with the Bible's prophesy, there will be a new heaven and a new earth, which would make one wonder what is wrong with the old heaven.

[2] I am assuming from your answer that God also lives in the brain, but still not clear where in the gray matter. From what I can gather, a lot, if not all of the belief of God residing in the brain is based on feelings. That doesn't mean it couldn't be true, but that's my understanding anyway.

[3] If God is an energy form, then it may exist in the brain, as well as the rest of the body, but not sure how that would communicate with you in any way, other than sensations.

[1] Lucifer tried to take over the present heaven, which went against God's design, and through mankind's sin, the earth was made imperfect, so there will be a new heaven and a new earth to align with God's perfect plan. That's not meant to be a complete explanation, but it aligns with Bible teaching.

[2] You have thoughts and feelings - are they not "residing" (your word) in the gray matter of your brain? - your spirit (loosely defined as the nonphysical part of the person which is the seat of emotions and character, or as some say, the soul) - where do you think it "resides", Bobcat? And if God is omnipresent, shouldn't that be the same place we would expect his spirit "residence" should be?

[3] The Bible makes no characterization of God as an "energy form." I've heard that expression before, and it may be your perception, or something you read somewhere, but I don't relate to it, even though it may not be a point worth debate.

I accept that he communicates with our spirit through his holy spirit. You wrote, "not sure how that would communicate with you in any way, other than sensations." Okay. We have a conscience. Most of us have feelings of guilt over wrong. We are amazed at the beauty of nature - all these are "sensations." "Believers" and "Unbelievers" (in God) alike get these feelings. Did they come from random mutations over the millennia? Could be, but I don't think so. What you believe is, of course, up to you.

 

[JustDave]

Do you understand that is a perception that works in both directions?

Explain please.

You really don't see how that works, or you just jerking my chain? Do you think believers are more open minded than skeptics? Spend some time thinking about how you determine open and closed mindedness. If you still don't see it, ask again, and we can talk about aspects of open mindedness and it's opposite. But you would definitely benefit from doing that on your own. I think you can too. If you can't, further discussion would be of limited interest.

 

[Rakaia]

Someone racist/ignorant back then might think it a clever, funny "joke". It wasn't, and still is not funny, just ignorant. We all have our own ideas of what we think is funny. You don't think is funny what I think is funny, does not mean you don't have a good sense of humor.

The first rule of humour is that as long as you think it's funny then anyone else is a bonus.

 

[VaughanJB]

I gotta admit, Christians don't always follow the Holly Spirit's "nudging" within them to do or not do the right/good thing. God in many ways gives unbelievers outward (good) signs in their lives that He exists, but their minds are too closed off to "see" them.

This, to me, is one of those Christian excuses that does nothing more but - once again - placing the blame on the individual and making excuses for a supposed God. If God cares, he would want me to believe. I am saying out loud - I've seen no evidence. Whose fault is that? I'm being honest, forthright. Can't God try a little harder? If there's a hell, I choose not to go there. But God isn't turning me away from that fate. Why?

Saying things like, "it's all around you in nature" doesn't work as an argument because nature occurs for both believers and non-believers. It doesn't require a God.

Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned the universe coming from "nothing". I thought this misconception had been put to bed, but apparently not. We don't know what "nothing" is. We've never had a sample of nothing to test it. In short - we don't have all the answers. But I fail to see why the idea is preposterous for believers, when they believe in a God that has always been, and came from - you guessed it - nothing.

 

[Elsie]

You really don't see how that works, or you just jerking my chain? Do you think believers are more open minded than skeptics? Spend some time thinking about how you determine open and closed mindedness. If you still don't see it, ask again, and we can talk about aspects of open mindedness and it's opposite. But you would definitely benefit from doing that on your own. I think you can too. If you can't, further discussion would be of limited interest.

Of course sceptics are likely open minded too, it's just that an open minded Believer, has the Holy Spirit indwelling in them who enables them to discern that God does exist. An open minded sceptic can dispute this because to them there hasn't been any practical, to them, proof God exists.

 

[Pepper]

[3] The Bible makes no characterization of God as an "energy form." I've heard that expression before, and it may be your perception, or something you read somewhere, but I don't relate to it, even though it may not be a point worth debate.

What about the Burning Bush? Isn't that an 'energy form?'

 

[JustDave]

What about the Burning Bush? Isn't that an 'energy form?'

No, that's just the phlogiston.

 

[Pepper]

No, that's just the phlogiston.

I disagree, biblically speaking.
It talked.

 

[Elsie]

Is it possible to wrap your mind around the idea that God (of the Bible) has ALWAYS existed? Uh, a creator spirit sprouted from NOTHING?! If from nothing, what is nothing?....Nothing? :-D I can't go there because it boggles my mind. Research concerning there is God, or there is not, & if there is 'what' is "He./it" will go on & on.

 

[bobcat]

[1] Lucifer tried to take over the present heaven, which went against God's design, and through mankind's sin, the earth was made imperfect, so there will be a new heaven and a new earth to align with God's perfect plan. That's not meant to be a complete explanation, but it aligns with Bible teaching.

[2] You have thoughts and feelings - are they not "residing" (your word) in the gray matter of your brain? - your spirit (loosely defined as the nonphysical part of the person which is the seat of emotions and character, or as some say, the soul) - where do you think it "resides", Bobcat? And if God is omnipresent, shouldn't that be the same place we would expect his spirit "residence" should be?

[3] The Bible makes no characterization of God as an "energy form." I've heard that expression before, and it may be your perception, or something you read somewhere, but I don't relate to it, even though it may not be a point worth debate.

I accept that he communicates with our spirit through his holy spirit. You wrote, "not sure how that would communicate with you in any way, other than sensations." Okay. We have a conscience. Most of us have feelings of guilt over wrong. We are amazed at the beauty of nature - all these are "sensations." "Believers" and "Unbelievers" (in God) alike get these feelings. Did they come from random mutations over the millennia? Could be, but I don't think so. What you believe is, of course, up to you.

Not clear on how the earth or the heavens would be made imperfect by something that individuals did, or how God would have designed an imperfect plan, but neither of those matters are issues of this thread anyway. As for God residing in the brain, here are my thoughts.

The mind is just a functional product of the brain. All thoughts are electrochemical processes of the brain. They are representations of things we have perceived with our senses. When our senses perceive something, those signals are then routed to that part of our brain where we try to make sense of the stimulus. That is where errors often occur. Ask any magician.

An idea or opinion produced by thinking is just a representation of something. It is not the actual thing, just as a picture or a painting of something isn't the actual thing. However, information in the brain is not a disembodied abstract entity; it is always tied to a physical source. So too, no thought can occur without its neural substrate.

The concept of your grandmother is not "contained" in one neuron such as "grandmother neuron,". It is a vast network of neurons that, in their connections with each other, collectively represent your grandmother memory.

Thoughts of a more abstract nature (Such as God), are just higher-level representations. They are built from hierarchies or ladders of representations. One thing reminds us of another because of some similar feature. At the bottom are still the physical sense perceptions and movements, upon which all other thoughts are built. Abstract thoughts are, in essence, still fundamentally just constructions from lower-level concepts.

We can create concepts of things that don't exist by making analogies of things that do. We can imagine a flying cow because we have seen other things fly and we have seen a cow. However, since these concepts are comprised of actual neural and neurochemical connections, if you could remove neurons one by one, the concept of something in your brain gradually dissolves, which is what happens with Alzheimer's or when part of the brain is removed.

To say that God lives in the brain, it is to say that God is either a product of those connections, or that some invisible and undetectable force or thing exists in the brain of a believer, but if it's not in the connections, then where?

We have a conscience, as you mentioned, but it is the result of feelings (emotions) which comes from the brain processing stimulus (Whether physical or information). It is still 100% the result of connections and we assign meaning to them. Guilt, or happiness, or regret are all relative to the elementary things we associate with it. That's what is alluded to as conscience. It isn't some mysterious disembodied dimension of the brain.

Again, not saying something supernatural doesn't exist (No evidence either way), but saying God exists in the hearts (Minds) of believers seems based on interpreted feelings more than a physical difference. JMO

 

[bobcat]

I disagree, biblically speaking.
It talked.

Ha ha. I have talked around a campfire, but never to one.

 

[bobcat]

Is it possible to wrap your mind around the idea that God (of the Bible) has ALWAYS existed? Uh, a creator spirit sprouted from NOTHING?! If from nothing, what is nothing?....Nothing? :-D I can't go there because it boggles my mind. Research concerning there is God, or there is not, & if there is 'what' is "He./it" will go on & on.

As I understand it, "nothing" is the absolute absence of everything (No virtual particles, no forces, no physics). Just absolute emptiness. Therefore, I find it impossible to get something from nothing.

So, either something has always existed, or nothing exists now. We, and the universe exist, so something has always existed. The question is what? Mass and energy are interchangeable (E= MC2), and since mass didn't form until after the Big Bang, it must be energy. Eternal energy - That's my conclusion anyway.

 

[JustDave]

Again, not saying something supernatural doesn't exist (No evidence either way), but saying God exists in the hearts (Minds) of believers seems based on interpreted feelings more than a physical difference. JMO

Existing in the "hearts and minds," also relies heavily on poetic license.

 

[gruntlabor]

Can't God try a little harder? If there's a hell, I choose not to go there. But God isn't turning me away from that fate. Why?

... they believe in a God that has always been, and came from - you guessed it - nothing.

That is because Satan has challenged God. Satan and his angels are very active on the earth right now according to the bible.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. --Revelation 12:12

Your second statement is an oxymoron, a paradox, a contradiction in terms. He didn't 'come'. He always was.

 

[JustDave]

As I understand it, "nothing" is the absolute absence of everything (No virtual particles, no forces, no physics). Just absolute emptiness. Therefore, I find it impossible to get something from nothing.

So, either something has always existed, or nothing exists now. We, and the universe exist, so something has always existed. The question is what? Mass and energy are interchangeable (E= MC2), and since mass didn't form until after the Big Bang, it must be energy. Eternal energy - That's my conclusion anyway.

The theoretical physics I've seen suggests that not even energy existed. My problem with that is that I can't wrap my head around it. But my limited understanding of everything is not a reliable test of accuracy. However, it's as fun to contemplate as a god itself. Absolute nothing! Not even a void for it to exist in. And then <poof> a universe is there in about the time it takes to make a sandwich.

 

[Mr. Ed]

 

[gruntlabor]

(First the good news, we've proved God exists. The bad news is that she's black.)

Someone racist/ignorant back then might think it a clever, funny "joke". It wasn't, and still is not funny, just ignorant. We all have our own ideas of what we think is funny. You don't think is funny what I think is funny, does not mean you don't have a good sense of humor.

I took that as profound irony, not a slur on women or blacks.

 

[MACKTEXAS]

Not clear on how the earth or the heavens would be made imperfect by something that individuals did, or how God would have designed an imperfect plan, but neither of those matters are issues of this thread anyway. As for God residing in the brain, here are my thoughts.

The mind is just a functional product of the brain. All thoughts are electrochemical processes of the brain. They are representations of things we have perceived with our senses. When our senses perceive something, those signals are then routed to that part of our brain where we try to make sense of the stimulus. That is where errors often occur. Ask any magician.

An idea or opinion produced by thinking is just a representation of something. It is not the actual thing, just as a picture or a painting of something isn't the actual thing. However, information in the brain is not a disembodied abstract entity; it is always tied to a physical source. So too, no thought can occur without its neural substrate.

The concept of your grandmother is not "contained" in one neuron such as "grandmother neuron,". It is a vast network of neurons that, in their connections with each other, collectively represent your grandmother memory.

Thoughts of a more abstract nature (Such as God), are just higher-level representations. They are built from hierarchies or ladders of representations. One thing reminds us of another because of some similar feature. At the bottom are still the physical sense perceptions and movements, upon which all other thoughts are built. Abstract thoughts are, in essence, still fundamentally just constructions from lower-level concepts.

We can create concepts of things that don't exist by making analogies of things that do. We can imagine a flying cow because we have seen other things fly and we have seen a cow. However, since these concepts are comprised of actual neural and neurochemical connections, if you could remove neurons one by one, the concept of something in your brain gradually dissolves, which is what happens with Alzheimer's or when part of the brain is removed.

To say that God lives in the brain, it is to say that God is either a product of those connections, or that some invisible and undetectable force or thing exists in the brain of a believer, but if it's not in the connections, then where?

We have a conscience, as you mentioned, but it is the result of feelings (emotions) which comes from the brain processing stimulus (Whether physical or information). It is still 100% the result of connections and we assign meaning to them. Guilt, or happiness, or regret are all relative to the elementary things we associate with it. That's what is alluded to as conscience. It isn't some mysterious disembodied dimension of the brain.

Again, not saying something supernatural doesn't exist (No evidence either way), but saying God exists in the hearts (Minds) of believers seems based on interpreted feelings more than a physical difference. JMO

Your reply to my post #158 rambles off topic, with only minimal feedback to do with what I actually wrote, but as long as you have worked out all the questions of life in a manner which meets your needs, that's fine, and leaves us without reason for further discussion.

I'm getting ready to make a bite of breakfast, then maybe check out what else is going on in SF. Will probably get out awhile this afternoon to enjoy some of the beautiful weather we're expecting in Texas.

Have a good day, Bobcat. Best wishes to you, and all the members who contributed to your thread, even if we disagree, as was expected.