Where were you when the world stopped turning?

Pepper said:
President Clinton did warn the new President Bush about Osama bin Laden....
Click to expand...

The responsibility of 9/11 falls on the fact that al Qaeda was allowed to grow and prosper and the decision was not made to take out their leader when the chance existed to do so. Not once but at least four times during the Clinton presidency according to the 9/11 report. President Clinton has acknowledged that as a regret.

Philip D. Zelikow, the executive director of the 9/11 report, actually identifies nine(9) key moments in Clinton’s presidency when a different decision might have led to bin Laden’s death ...

1. May 1998: Tarnak Farms raid plan rejected
2. August, 1998: A campaign for continued air strikes is shelved after al-Qaeda attacks two U.S. embassies in Africa
3. August 1998: covert operations limited to a ‘capture operation,’ not kill
4. December 1998: Missile strike against Kandahar is rejected; memo to ‘kill’ bin Laden misunderstood
5. Early 1999: Decision not to deploy the AC-130 gunship option
6. February-March 1999: A decision not to strike bin Laden’s desert camp
7. February 1999: The decision to again amend the covert action authorization, canceling the ‘kill’ authorization of December and reinstating the ‘capture’ language
8. May 1999: The decision not to do the missile strike on Kandahar
9. November-December 2000: The decision not to strike against bin Laden after the al-Qaeda attack on the USS Cole

Would it have even made a difference if Osama bin Laden had been taken out during the Clinton presidency ?? ...
Who knows and at this point is pure speculation even with hindsight being 20/20 and all.
 
I created this post a while ago
Thread 'The Repercussions of 9/11 -- The Aftermath!' The Repercussions of 9/11 -- The Aftermath!

We're currently watching the special called "911: One day in America" on Disney+ just now.

I was in bed, hubby woke me up. Firstly, didn't make sense while brain was waking up. Munchkins were in school, we were very worried and watched all day nonstop.

RIP to all who perished on the day and the ones shove died in the aftermath since. Blessed be!
 

I was opening a convenience store where I was the manager, and had the TV turned on. They guy who worked the morning shift was from Syria.

He called in to ask "You still want me to come in?"

Me: "Yeah, why? You sick?"

Jim: "No, but maybe you want to fire me for this"

Me: "Are you flying a plane right now?"

Jim: "No. And I am not Muslim."

Me: "Well, Muslim or not, you still work here, buddy."

Jim thought our customers would be angry with him, that they'd yell at him and throw things at him, so I hung around for a few hours. Some customers asked him what he thought about what was going on, but Jim learned that day that, while normal average Americans care about their countrymen, they don't do the eye-for-an-eye thing.

Jim also learned that virtually all of our customers considered him one of America's countrymen. Probably helped that the store had some really good "in honor of" specials the week he got his citizenship, but Jim was a very likeable fellow.
 
I was reading my morning newspaper and having coffee on my patio when my son called and asked me, "what do you think of this?" "Of what," was my response. He couldn't believe I wasn't watching the news on t.v. as per usual. It was a beautiful morning, so I took advantage of being outside.

I quickly ran in and turned on the t.v., and asked him where he was. Well, he was standing on the banks of the Hudson across from the towers, watching what was going on. Just then I spotted the 2nd plane approaching the North Tower and I told him to get to his place of employment and indoors ASAP.

We had no idea just exactly was going on that precipitated all this, but clearly, it was an Al Qaeda operation. Terrible day to say the least.
 

dog%20memorial-min.jpg


In total, around 300 dogs contributed to the rescue and recovery efforts around Ground Zero. Working in extremely difficult and dangerous conditions, the rescue dogs relentlessly searched for survivors, often enduring bloodied paws and sleepless nights.

Every much a part of the rescue effort as their human counterparts, they also raised the spirits of those around them. “Those dogs brought the power of hope. They removed the gloom for just an instant — and that was huge because it was a pretty dismal place to be” recalls Dr. Cindy Otto, a vet who worked with 9/11 search dogs.

Bretagne, a 16-year-old golden retriever was the last surviving rescue dog from that fateful day. She was put to sleep in June 2016, entering the hospital through a tunnel of saluting officers.
 
Some facts about 9/11 you may not know...

Many British people died​

Other than the US, the country that sustained the most casualties on 9/11 was the United Kingdom. No fewer than 67 Brits perished that day, and many others narrowly survived. One of the lucky ones was Scottish ex-pat Andrew Cullen, who worked in the South Tower. He owed his survival to disobeying official instructions to stay put while authorities worked out what was going on.

The terrorists used elaborate codenames​


The 9/11 attackers referred to some of their targets using elaborate codenames. They called the Pentagon ‘the Faculty of Fine Arts’, while the North Tower of the World Trade Center was ‘the Faculty of Town Planning’.

The attacks themselves were referred to as ‘the first semester’, while the 19 terrorists were dubbed ‘19 certificates for private education’.

One company lost the majority of its staff​


Of its 960 New York employees, 658 were killed. The CEO, Howard Lutnick, survived because he was taking his son to school that morning, but his younger brother Gary was among the dead.


The co-creator of Frasier was killed​

David Angell, Emmy Award-winning co-creator of the classic sitcom Frasier, was on board American Airlines Flight 11 with his wife Lynn when it struck the North Tower. By eerie coincidence, in a 1997 episode of the show, Dr. Frasier Crane receives a phone call from someone flying in on ‘American Flight 11’.

A much bigger terrorist plot was initially proposed​

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the architect of 9/11, originally wanted to have nine planes flown into a variety of targets, including nuclear power plants. A tenth plane would have then been landed at an airport, where all male passengers would have been killed in a grisly media spectacle. This plan was deemed too complex and scaled back to “just” four planes.

Ground Zero burned for 99 days​

The combination of jet fuel and combustible matter, such as office documents and furniture, meant that the wreckage of the World Trade Center burned non-stop for 99 days. Firefighters tended to this seemingly endless inferno around the clock.

One firefighter later said: “You couldn't even begin to imagine how much water was pumped in there. It was like you were creating a giant lake.”
 
I was drinking coffee and getting ready to go camping. We went camping on a preplanned trip for four or five days in an area in the high Colorado mountains where there is no cell phone reception or television reception. During the morning and evening, you just might to pick up two radio stations if the weather conditions are right.

It was nice there because we were by ourselves, and it was quiet and peaceful. Lot of people stayed home, and I was glad because I wanted to stay up there to get away from it all. It depressed me what happened, and I fell back on military training the I had. When something like that happens you need to wait for a few days to get a clear picture of what really happened. Until that time there are so many fake and false reporting's going on that it is best not to believe what you hear.
 
hollydolly said:

dog%20memorial-min.jpg


In total, around 300 dogs contributed to the rescue and recovery efforts around Ground Zero. Working in extremely difficult and dangerous conditions, the rescue dogs relentlessly searched for survivors, often enduring bloodied paws and sleepless nights.

Every much a part of the rescue effort as their human counterparts, they also raised the spirits of those around them. “Those dogs brought the power of hope. They removed the gloom for just an instant — and that was huge because it was a pretty dismal place to be” recalls Dr. Cindy Otto, a vet who worked with 9/11 search dogs.

Bretagne, a 16-year-old golden retriever was the last surviving rescue dog from that fateful day. She was put to sleep in June 2016, entering the hospital through a tunnel of saluting officers.
Click to expand...
This was very touching to see! I had no idea of the impact these rescue dogs had during this difficult time in our history. Kudos to them. I can understand the "saluting officers." I salute the rescue dogs and all those who helped save human lives that day.
 
About six years after the bombing, my cousin took me to New York as a treat. We had a driver, a very nice Israeli gentleman, who had witnessed the bombing up close and had lost a dear friend. He told us some heartbreaking stories.

At our request, he had taken us to the church that had been the staging area for the rescue workers and was now a memorial/museum and there was a building within sight that had been smoldering for several days as the firemen tried to totally put out the fire; smoke was coming from it and the air was unpleasant to breathe. Police were outside the museum, handing out masks.

When we came out, Dovid was standing by the car, with tears running down his cheeks. He said that the sight of the smoke coming from the smoldering building was almost more than he could bear. We hastily left; we didn't want to upset him any more than he already was. He was very apologetic about his emotions; we were sorry we had put him through that.

I remember crying in the museum when I saw all the photographs of people who had died in the bombing and the letters that their loved ones had sent to be posted on the walls. There was also a fireman's cape covered with the badges of all the fire departments from all over the country who had responded to the call for help. I'm getting choked up just remembering that museum.

There was a lady who lived a few houses down from me whose brother-in-law had been a building maintenance engineer in one of the Towers. She was desperately trying to get to her sister, who hadn't heard from her husband but it was assumed that because his area was high up in the Tower that he had not been able to get out. He didn't get out. My next-door neighbors, who went to church with her, were collecting money for her to rent a car so that her son could drive her to New York; there was no other way to get there. And even driving, it was difficult to get into the City.

It's too bad that it takes something like this for American to come together....
 
I had just come on duty at 8:30 & just before 9 AM, one detective walked into my office & said roll call was cut short & that a plane just hit the Trade Center. We turned on a TV & was watching what we thought was a replay of the original attack, but realized it was the second plane. We just stood there as it was so surreal.

Within 30 minutes of the attack, the county & city officials shut down all non-essential services & sent everyone home. The local Federal office building did the same. We had a child care center in the main county office building whose evacuation plan was to move all of the children to the Sheriff's Office (we were across the street) in an emergency. We ended up with about 30+ kids (babies to 4-5 yo) in the jail court room waiting for their parents to arrive. Most parents worked in that main building, so it wasn't too long that they were back home. One mother was near total hysterics when she arrived that we couldn't let her leave until her husband picked her & the child up.
 
Pepper said:
President Clinton did warn the new President Bush about Osama bin Laden....
Click to expand...

hollydolly said:
Some facts about 9/11 you may not know...

Many British people died​

Other than the US, the country that sustained the most casualties on 9/11 was the United Kingdom. No fewer than 67 Brits perished that day, and many others narrowly survived. One of the lucky ones was Scottish ex-pat Andrew Cullen, who worked in the South Tower. He owed his survival to disobeying official instructions to stay put while authorities worked out what was going on.

The terrorists used elaborate codenames​


The 9/11 attackers referred to some of their targets using elaborate codenames. They called the Pentagon ‘the Faculty of Fine Arts’, while the North Tower of the World Trade Center was ‘the Faculty of Town Planning’.

The attacks themselves were referred to as ‘the first semester’, while the 19 terrorists were dubbed ‘19 certificates for private education’.

One company lost the majority of its staff​


Of its 960 New York employees, 658 were killed. The CEO, Howard Lutnick, survived because he was taking his son to school that morning, but his younger brother Gary was among the dead.


The co-creator of Frasier was killed​

David Angell, Emmy Award-winning co-creator of the classic sitcom Frasier, was on board American Airlines Flight 11 with his wife Lynn when it struck the North Tower. By eerie coincidence, in a 1997 episode of the show, Dr. Frasier Crane receives a phone call from someone flying in on ‘American Flight 11’.

A much bigger terrorist plot was initially proposed​

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the architect of 9/11, originally wanted to have nine planes flown into a variety of targets, including nuclear power plants. A tenth plane would have then been landed at an airport, where all male passengers would have been killed in a grisly media spectacle. This plan was deemed too complex and scaled back to “just” four planes.

Ground Zero burned for 99 days​

The combination of jet fuel and combustible matter, such as office documents and furniture, meant that the wreckage of the World Trade Center burned non-stop for 99 days. Firefighters tended to this seemingly endless inferno around the clock.

One firefighter later said: “You couldn't even begin to imagine how much water was pumped in there. It was like you were creating a giant lake.”
Click to expand...
Well, one thing most folks don't know, is that the objective of the attack failed.
Yes, the tragic event killed thousands of people and the visuals had/have a dramatic impact on our views of terrorism.
But, crisis managers and disaster recovery professionals have been discussing terrorism for decades before 9/11. We analyzed motives, geopolitical changes around the world, anticipated what types of terrorism would occur.

The objective of the 9/11 attacks had a main goal. To disrupt the United State banking system.
They knew, that by disrupting the international banking system, the residual affects would lead to currency devaluation, companies going bankrupt, jobs loss, welfare increasing, etc.
To truly understand how that could transpire is to know how the international banking system works and how money is moved around the globe. To simplify, when we go to sleep at night (here in the US), or from a markets perspective when trading stops, thats when 100's of billions of dollars start their movement around the globe. The saying 'money never sleeps', is not just a catch phrase, it is true.
As the sun moves, so does money.
At the end of our day, massive amounts of money move to countries in the Pac Rim, getting invested, getting loaned, if even for the 24 hour cycle. Then it moves through Europe, then through London money centers like Canary Wharf. As money moves, interest is added and payable to the recipient. Much of these types of transactions are described as derivatives. So, money leaving the US at the end of the day, when we sleep, could return the next day with added interest when we wake.
This is just a very high level of how money moves and increases. There are other instruments that facilitate money movement that are very complex. I am intentionally leaving out some important parts that shouldn't be discussed here.

Back to my initial point, 9/11 intent was to terrorize the world, but more importantly they wanted to disrupt the money flow around the world.
At the time of 9/11, many companies technology centers were physical buildings, owned and managed by those companies. That really started the 'cloud' era for technology. Distributed processing, with no (or little) single points of failure. Data Centers in Calif. wouldn't be impacted by a building fire in NY. Separating businesses geographically reduced the impacts of any one event to a specific area.
I can't go into details of how protections were in place for 9/11, but notice how little impact 9/11 had on how money flowed around the globe.
In that sense, they failed.
 
Pepper said:
Very beautiful @Marie5656 thanks so much. I always wonder though, where's the love for NYC when it's NOT September 11?
Click to expand...
You make a good point. There are many good sites to see there. But I think many big cities get a bad rep...for nor particular reason except for they are big cities. For no reason except maybe that they have more of the same issues other cities have...just more of them due to being bigger,
 
Naturally said:
The responsibility of 9/11 falls on the fact that al Qaeda was allowed to grow and prosper and the decision was not made to take out their leader when the chance existed to do so. Not once but at least four times during the Clinton presidency according to the 9/11 report. President Clinton has acknowledged that as a regret.

Philip D. Zelikow, the executive director of the 9/11 report, actually identifies nine(9) key moments in Clinton’s presidency when a different decision might have led to bin Laden’s death ...

1. May 1998: Tarnak Farms raid plan rejected
2. August, 1998: A campaign for continued air strikes is shelved after al-Qaeda attacks two U.S. embassies in Africa
3. August 1998: covert operations limited to a ‘capture operation,’ not kill
4. December 1998: Missile strike against Kandahar is rejected; memo to ‘kill’ bin Laden misunderstood
5. Early 1999: Decision not to deploy the AC-130 gunship option
6. February-March 1999: A decision not to strike bin Laden’s desert camp
7. February 1999: The decision to again amend the covert action authorization, canceling the ‘kill’ authorization of December and reinstating the ‘capture’ language
8. May 1999: The decision not to do the missile strike on Kandahar
9. November-December 2000: The decision not to strike against bin Laden after the al-Qaeda attack on the USS Cole

Would it have even made a difference if Osama bin Laden had been taken out during the Clinton presidency ?? ...
Who knows and at this point is pure speculation even with hindsight being 20/20 and all.
Click to expand...
Good point....warning an incoming president of their lack of not taking action is the real concern.
For that matter, Mitt Romney telling Obama about the Russian threat.....as Obama makes a joke about it......and yet, here we are
 
I just came back from back surgery, and was watching the "Today". They began showing video as soon as the first plane struck. I thought it was some dumb pilot in a tiny Censsa. I called my ex (to be), as she used to live in NYC as I did. We, both, watched the second plane hit. The next day, we drove to the Jersey side opposite the site. It was stills moldering, and it had this weird smell like concrete , burnt wiring, and a soup of other chemicals.
 
Marie5656 said:
You make a good point. There are many good sites to see there. But I think many big cities get a bad rep...for nor particular reason except for they are big cities. For no reason except maybe that they have more of the same issues other cities have...just more of them due to being bigger,
Click to expand...
No, its all political. That is why NY has such a mass exodus, that and their sanctuary city status they wear like a badge.
 
Old Salt said:
Another conspiracy theory, meant to stir up hatred for Muslims! It originates in unwarranted fear of that which is different!
Click to expand...
Any accurate and factual analysis of a situation that doesn’t suit the principals involved is dubbed a conspiracy theory meant to stir up hatred these days. If you say a rattlesnake bite can be fatal, some will say that is a conspiracy theory meant to stir up hatred of rattlesnakes.

Rattlesnake Bite
 

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