Who is able and going to put the SS increase into savings

In my opinion committing welfare fraud is never okay ….

because someone is low income does not give them the right to steal..

one of the reasons our social security system is in such bad shape. Is the ten fold increase in Ssdi since the 1970s despite boomers coming off Ssdi and going on ss retirement.

the 2015 bipartisan act had to take money out of ss retirement and put it in Ssdi or after 2018 Ssdi was bust .

it is plagued with fraud and we have workers , doctors and lawyers charged regularly with running fraud schemes on it .

Just one man and a corrupt doctor and judge put through a half billion dollars in Ssdi claims that were put through fraudulently …

so fraud is costing us all …ssi is welfare and consumes our money we pay in taxes .

Ssdi is for those who have enough social security credits , if you dont then you get welfare which is ssi and comes out of our taxes .

my son was a welfare investigator in nyc …the fraud is insane that goes on so I would never advocate someone commits fraud to get a bigger share then they are entitled to
One of my 3 graduate degrees happens to be in Vocational Rehabilitation and I spent 29 years evaluating people with disabilities to help them join or rejoin the workforce. I don’t feel like typing the complexity and expense involved in putting some of these people to work and while working from home helps it’s not a magic pill.

For some it’s not possible and for others that require 24 hour attendants because of severe physical disabilities they lose their subsidies to pay for their care if they go to work.

Also it’s extremely difficult for people to obtain SSDI. Many severely disabled people get denied repeatedly and if they keep appealing they eventually will go before a law judge that will decide along with a vocational expert (also a area where I consulted after retiring) if they should be awarded SSDI.

In the 70’s before I entered the field there was quite a bit of fraud. That hasn’t been true for a long time. If anything the opposite is happening. In my career I only know of one case where the person was extremely good at faking their disability and was caught when someone tipped us off. They were investigated and prosecuted.

By all means focus on some poor people trying to save a few bucks by calling it welfare fraud and ignore all the unethical and fraudulent behavior of some of the people with the most wealth. I know who I will save my rage for.
 
One of my 3 graduate degrees happens to be in Vocational Rehabilitation and I spent 29 years evaluating people with disabilities to help them join or rejoin the workforce. I don’t feel like typing the complexity and expense involved in putting some of these people to work and while working from home helps it’s not a magic pill.

For some it’s not possible and for others that require 24 hour attendants because of severe physical disabilities they lose their subsidies to pay for their care if they go to work.

Also it’s extremely difficult for people to obtain SSDI. Many severely disabled people get denied repeatedly and if they keep appealing they eventually will go before a law judge that will decide along with a vocational expert (also a area where I consulted after retiring) if they should be awarded SSDI.

In the 70’s before I entered the field there was quite a bit of fraud. That hasn’t been true for a long time. If anything the opposite is happening. In my career I only know of one case where the person was extremely good at faking their disability and was caught when someone tipped us off. They were investigated and prosecuted.

By all means focus on some poor people trying to save a few bucks by calling it welfare fraud and ignore all the unethical and fraudulent behavior of some of the people with the most wealth. I know who I will save my rage for.
I hear you TT. Re: your last sentence, like that SOB (we call him #45) who claimed to be a billionaire but paid no taxes for 10 years! Something people who haven't had to go through trying to get the assistance they need don't realize is that one lousy dollar can disqualify a person. That happened to an online friend I've known for years. She was having a very hard time trying to live on her measly SS payments. She often said she's lucky that one of her sons was in a position to help her a bit. The other had mental challenges since he was a boy so he couldn't be of help. She finally wound up moving to another state at the invitation of her ex-husband, who she had remained friends with. The move has been good for both of them. She gets to keep a lot more of her check while having company and enjoying the wide open spaces of their property. But everyone doesn't get that lucky...blessed, if you will.

Some people are working two and three jobs but still can't make ends meet. They too will not qualify for extra help. They too often pay more in taxes than the rich who use their loopholes to the max. Even Warren Buffett found it to be an unfair practice and called for the rich to pay their fair share. I dare anyone to walk a mile in any of these unfortunate people's shoes...then come back and tell us how it feels. :confused:
 

Diva, I am glad it worked out for your friend. Most people have no clue what’s really happening and believe the news about welfare queens, etc. It makes a good story on the news to get people mad at poor people instead of who they should really despise creating the large income inequality created and maintained by the elites.
 
One of my 3 graduate degrees happens to be in Vocational Rehabilitation and I spent 29 years evaluating people with disabilities to help them join or rejoin the workforce. I don’t feel like typing the complexity and expense involved in putting some of these people to work and while working from home helps it’s not a magic pill.

For some it’s not possible and for others that require 24 hour attendants because of severe physical disabilities they lose their subsidies to pay for their care if they go to work.

Also it’s extremely difficult for people to obtain SSDI. Many severely disabled people get denied repeatedly and if they keep appealing they eventually will go before a law judge that will decide along with a vocational expert (also a area where I consulted after retiring) if they should be awarded SSDI.

In the 70’s before I entered the field there was quite a bit of fraud. That hasn’t been true for a long time. If anything the opposite is happening. In my career I only know of one case where the person was extremely good at faking their disability and was caught when someone tipped us off. They were investigated and prosecuted.

By all means focus on some poor people trying to save a few bucks by calling it welfare fraud and ignore all the unethical and fraudulent behavior of some of the people with the most wealth. I know who I will save my rage for.
Ssdi is not always difficult to get because there are workers on the inside who fraudulently make it happen for a fee .

we had a bust here of 106 workers , doctors and others involved in seeing to it people got fraudulent claims approved and they said those 106 we’re just the tip of the iceberg .

so yeah I do object to people stealing money they shouldn’t be getting . I don’t care how little or why.

there are enough jobs and ways to work from home now for someone to perk up an income in most places if they are desperate enough to steal money they shouldnt be getting in most cases .

ssi and Ssdi have not kept pace with the times and revised their requirements as many can work from home today if they really wanted to .

and no I don’t want to hear someone’s reasoning for being on disability as it is about the group and not about anyone in particular or their situation.

like dieting , the reasons for not working from home will have no shortage of excuses yet like dieting there will be very few real excuses.. those who want to do some work will find a way , most of the rest will just find an excuse …let’s face it today , almost anyone can do telesales or find something they can do from home.. they don’t even need arms and we have voice activated phones as an example

just sayin
 
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We built silos too (multiple & independent streams of Income)
I think of silos in conjunction with differing parts of a containing portfolio. I don't think this is necessarily correct, nor is it important, but as I read your response I felt that the silos I was referring to were more defined by when they are tapped, and in what order, and hence how they are positioned (strategy), rather than separate sources contributing to a combined income stream.

The separate sources in this case I think of as tranches.

You know, I'll bet we could just flip-flop the terms and they'd be equally appropriate, so long as there's sufficient context differentiate between them.
 
Ssdi is not always difficult to get because there are workers on the inside who fraudulently make it happen for a fee .

we had a bust here of 106 workers , doctors and others involved in seeing to it people got fraudulent claims approved and they said those 106 we’re just the tip of the iceberg .

so yeah I do object to people stealing money they shouldn’t be getting . I don’t care how little or why.

there are enough jobs and ways to work from home now for someone to perk up an income in most places if they are desperate enough to steal money they shouldnt be getting in most cases .

ssi and Ssdi have not kept pace with the times and revised their requirements as many can work from home today if they really wanted to .

and no I don’t want to hear someone’s reasoning for being on disability as it is about the group and not about anyone in particular or their situation.

like dieting , the reasons for not working from home will have no shortage of excuses yet like dieting there will be very few real excuses.. those who want to do some work will find a way , most of the rest will just find an excuse …let’s face it today , almost anyone can do telesales or find something they can do from home.. they don’t even need arms and we have voice activated phones as an example

just sayin
There’s strict rules about working part time if you are on Ssdi and your health insurance is also tied to your disability check. I am not going to bother to explain the complexity of putting some people to work.

Voice activated devices don’t solve all the problems just like they didn’t when dragon dictate was available so people could use the computer but lots of obstacles and problems presented themselves.

You are totally clueless about disabilities and I am done trying to educate you on the matter. It’s easier to believe that people with disabilities are lazy and don’t want to work when in reality that couldn’t be farther from the truth.
 
There’s strict rules about working part time if you are on Ssdi and your health insurance is also tied to your disability check. I am not going to bother to explain the complexity of putting some people to work.

Voice activated devices don’t solve all the problems just like they didn’t when dragon dictate was available so people could use the computer but lots of obstacles and problems presented themselves.

You are totally clueless about disabilities and I am done trying to educate you on the matter. It’s easier to believe that people with disabilities are lazy and don’t want to work when in reality that couldn’t be farther from the truth.
Then we are done with each other and I can stop educating you on on welfare fraud since you are also clueless it is a crime regardless if one thinks they deserve it
 
There’s strict rules about working part time if you are on Ssdi and your health insurance is also tied to your disability check. I am not going to bother to explain the complexity of putting some people to work.

Voice activated devices don’t solve all the problems just like they didn’t when dragon dictate was available so people could use the computer but lots of obstacles and problems presented themselves.

You are totally clueless about disabilities and I am done trying to educate you on the matter. It’s easier to believe that people with disabilities are lazy and don’t want to work when in reality that couldn’t be farther from the truth.
Thank you!
 
Thank you!
I believe the rules are no different than working while getting ss early . You can earn over 1400 a month on Ssdi which for someone going to commit fraud for a few extra bucks with gift cards it is a lot… that is quite a boost from just Ssdi.

on the other hand ssi offers little incentive to work .. they take away 50 cents of benefits for every dollar-over 85 dollars
 
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I believe the rules are no different than working while getting ss early . You can earn over 1400 a month on Ssdi which for someone going to commit fraud for a few extra bucks with gift cards it is a lot… that is quite a boost from just Ssdi.

on the other hand ssi offers little incentive to work .. they take away 50 cents of benefits for every dollar-over 85 dollars
Thank you!
 
Diva, I am glad it worked out for your friend. Most people have no clue what’s really happening and believe the news about welfare queens, etc. It makes a good story on the news to get people mad at poor people instead of who they should really despise creating the large income inequality created and maintained by the elites.
You know, though, there's no need to make this a them vs us thing.

We've got to get past this finger-pointing thingie. That's for pre-schoolers.
 
I think of silos in conjunction with differing parts of a containing portfolio. I don't think this is necessarily correct, nor is it important, but as I read your response I felt that the silos I was referring to were more defined by when they are tapped, and in what order, and hence how they are positioned (strategy), rather than separate sources contributing to a combined income stream.

The separate sources in this case I think of as tranches.

You know, I'll bet we could just flip-flop the terms and they'd be equally appropriate, so long as there's sufficient context differentiate between them.
2007 -2009, we all got caught in the Great Recession. (57/60)
Determined to have a retirement that is dotted line connection to Markets and US Economy.

Recommend, tl:dr
Devised a silo $ farm: retirement that is flexible and could standup well to shocks any of the silos. IF the "Big One" hits, everyone's retirement would affected but some more than others.
Silos:
-SS (2);
-Pension(1);
-House (1);
-Farmland(1) non divisible; Later sold to buy 2 rentals. Now 1 rental.
-IRAs, (many) that were in "tranches" or individually silo'd into deferred, longevity, variable GWLB annuities, and later in fixed GWLB Annuities). (7)
-Roths in GLWB annuities( 2) and later closed when their guaranteed 5% step-ups ended. And used to buy a downside home condo, Eastside Seattle area. Sale of Oregon home only covered a little more than half of Seattle's purchase.
-non retirement fund in GLWB annuity.
-managed IRA fund account.
-trading accounts.

2022, saw only the managed account and trading accounts materially affected by the interest rate resets. But they are silo'd as non-essential. Income from the other Silo'd vehicles are unaffected for Retirement Income.
2023, the plan is to take the AWD (Allowable Withdrawal Distributions) from the annuities without affecting the Income Annuitization Base. Previously we were only taking RMD's and not the AWDs.

So most people arrange their retirement based upon their Portfolio value. Where as they should be basing their retirement on How their assets give them Income and for long enough time. RMD is designed to extinguish your Portfolio and thus your Income. So retirees devised all types of portfolios to minimize RMD and effects of SWR.

NOTE: Tried to replicate O-PERS. GLWB Annuities have changed substantially since 2008-2018. There's a hefty fee in buying this type annuity but the annuity company has taken on Longevity, Market and Interest rate risk. If we live longer than the cash value of the annuity (~87) we will be paying taxes on zero $ cash balance. Mom lived to 97. Dad 99. Wife's parents 97, 90. Aunt to 107. Another aunt to 92 with the last 3 years essentially brain dead but breathing and strong heart.
 
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2007 -2009, we all got caught in the Great Recession. (57/60)
Determined to have a retirement that is dotted line connection to Markets and US Economy.

Recommend, tl:dr
Devised a silo $ farm: retirement that is flexible and could standup well to shocks any of the silos. IF the "Big One" hits, everyone's retirement would affected but some more than others.
Silos:
-SS (2);
-Pension(1);
-House (1);
-Farmland(1) non divisible; Later sold to buy 2 rentals. Now 1 rental.
-IRAs, (many) that were in "tranches" or individually silo'd into deferred, longevity, variable GWLB annuities, and later in fixed GWLB Annuities). (7)
-Roths in GLWB annuities( 2) and later closed when their guaranteed 5% step-ups ended. And used to buy a downside home condo, Eastside Seattle area. Sale of Oregon home only covered a little more than half of Seattle's purchase.
-non retirement fund in GLWB annuity.
-managed IRA fund account.
-trading accounts.

2022, saw only the managed account and trading accounts materially affected by the interest rate resets. But they are silo'd as non-essential. Income from the other Silo'd vehicles are unaffected for Retirement Income.
2023, the plan is to take the AWD (Allowable Withdrawal Distributions) from the annuities without affecting the Income Annuitization Base. Previously we were only taking RMD's and not the AWDs.

So most people arrange their retirement based upon their Portfolio value. Where as they should be basing their retirement on How their assets give them Income and for long enough time. RMD is designed to extinguish your Portfolio and thus your Income. So retirees devised all types of portfolios to mini

NOTE: Tried to replicate O-PERS. GLWB Annuities have changed substantially since 2008-2018. There's a hefty fee in buying this type annuity but the annuity company has taken on Longevity, Market and Interest rate risk. If we live longer than the cash value of the annuity (~87) we will be paying taxes on zero $ cash balance. Mom lived to 97. Dad 99. Wife's parents 97, 90. Aunt to 107. Another aunt to 92 with the last 3 years essentially brain dead but breathing and strong heart.
This is very interesting and informative, least! Our is like that, but much less complex.

I'd never considered annuities, and may have missed out and a good diversification strategy.

I'm supposing that the farmland sale to rental was via 1031. Maybe you already said this. What do you make of 1031 and how best to sync up the relinquished prop and the replacement property? There are inherent pitfalls and I'm still not sure how best to manage it. The best results for me have been to sell out of a high area and buy into a low area, and this means geogrpahically different regions, or has at least three times. But this is very tricky unless you already know both areas: relinquished and replacement. Else it starts to be a crap shoot.

I can see that you were likely in OR and moved to WA. We are giving some thought to that for tax purposes, not the least of which is that OR is a joint-tenancy state, and WA is community property. I now think that community property ownership and tax laws are advantageous, and maybe inheritance taxes in WA are a bit nicer, but not really sure.
 
Son was already established in WA. We visited him often on Cascades train.
The farm was 1031 to a new build close to his place in Seattle. This allowed him to manage rental without too much travel effort. He is unpaid. We had his RE agent look and he looked for us. He came across this Townhouse on Thursday won bid on Monday, 2018. We were under the wire by a few days. Wife was a wreck.
We moved to Eastside Lake Washington (Redmond). We got urbanized very quickly. The personal home doesn't have tax issue or tight time limitation. Another story.

Not worrying about inheritance taxes, estate will pay. Properties currently < $2mil. Most of the other assets are IRAs-annuities, and what ever IRA cash value (CV) is left he will inherit. IRA annuities won't be much because projection indicates depletion at ~85yrs or less, if Market recovery is slow. We will take AWD from the annuities at 5.0%-6.5% (annuity defined) with the goal to reduce CV to near depletion. With the CV reduced, I will go back to RMD's and thus reduce marginal tax and pull Income from other silos: savings, rental income, & discretionary accounts, as needed.

Table W - Computation of Washington estate tax
* Taxable amount Rate
* Taxable amount $0 to $1,000,000 Rate 10.0%
* Taxable amount $1,000,000 to $2,000,000 Rate 14.0%
* Taxable amount $2,000,000 to $3,000,000 Rate 15.0%
* Taxable amount $3,000,000 to $4,000,000 Rate 16.0%
4 more rows

vs Oregon
https://smartasset.com/estate-planning/oregon-estate-tax
 
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Son was already established in WA. We visited him often on Cascades train.
The farm was 1031 to a new build close to his place in Seattle. This allowed him to manage rental without too much travel effort. He is unpaid. We had his RE agent look and he looked for us. He came across this condo on Thursday won bid on Monday, 2018. We were under the wire by a few days. Wife was a wreck.
We moved to Eastside Lake Washington (Redmond). We got urbanized very quickly. Another story.
For whatever reason, there's something about Seattle (west side) that puts me off. Not really sure what it is, but we first identify properties by what amounts to intuition, then test the numbers and other less visible factors. So in 2016 we looked seriously at two old duplexes adjacent to each other in Queen Anne. There was a lot to find positive, the numbers were doable (4.8 cap rate) but not outstanding, but this kind of property has intangible upsides, often.

The fact that I'd have to have it managed tipped us away from it. If this kind of property had been in the west hills of PDX, where I could keep an eye on it, I would probably have done it.

But Redmond/Belleview is another matter! It would be easy to get used to it and like it. It is the Marin County/Penninsula equivalent of Seattle, with Mercer Island kinda like Sauselito or Saratoga. Very nice!!!
 
I believe the rules are no different than working while getting ss early . You can earn over 1400 a month on Ssdi which for someone going to commit fraud for a few extra bucks with gift cards it is a lot… that is quite a boost from just Ssdi.

on the other hand ssi offers little incentive to work .. they take away 50 cents of benefits for every dollar-over 85 dollars
There’s a 9 month trial work period where they don’t lose any money and the purpose is to determine if they are actually capable of working in the long term due to their disability. At the end they can either work full time and give up their Ssdi or retain it without penalty and return to making under the limit.

For anyone on the forum who is in this situation or has a family member who is contact the department or bureau of Vocational Rehabilitation in your area because they are very knowledgeable in this subject. Their job is to help you return to employment at whatever level is feasible taking into consideration all aspects of your disability. All of the VR counselors have master’s degrees in this field. For most people there’s no charge for services as your taxes pay for the services.
 
For everyone who's renting, their rent went up exactly 8.7% (or whatever it is)
There’s a 9 month trial work period where they don’t lose any money and the purpose is to determine if they are actually capable of working in the long term due to their disability. At the end they can either work full time and give up their Ssdi or retain it without penalty and return to making under the limit.

For anyone on the forum who is in this situation or has a family member who is contact the department or bureau of Vocational Rehabilitation in your area because they are very knowledgeable in this subject. Their job is to help you return to employment at whatever level is feasible taking into consideration all aspects of your disability. All of the VR counselors have master’s degrees in this field. For most people there’s no charge for services as your taxes pay for the services.
There’s a 9 month trial work period where they don’t lose any money and the purpose is to determine if they are actually capable of working in the long term due to their disability. At the end they can either work full time and give up their Ssdi or retain it without penalty and return to making under the limit.

For anyone on the forum who is in this situation or has a family member who is contact the department or bureau of Vocational Rehabilitation in your area because they are very knowledgeable in this subject. Their job is to help you return to employment at whatever level is feasible taking into consideration all aspects of your disability. All of the VR counselors have master’s degrees in this field. For most people there’s no charge for services as your taxes pay for the services.
Even better .. with all the work from home jobs it is far easier to work then if one wanted to as opposed to fraud
 
@Teacher Terry, thank you for reminding us that it's far simpler to say things like, "get a job" or "work from home" than it is for many to actually land work and/or perform those kinds of jobs.

Some never were - or no longer are - mentally or physically capable of working.

Some made life choices that seemed wise at the time but ultimately put their finances in peril, including a lifetime of working mostly under the table resulting in low SS benefits, not acquiring an education or trade skills, relying on others to financially support them, and/or having life habits that kept them in financial jeopardy (drugs, alcohol, gambling, overspending (including gifts to others), excessively donating to churches and other pleading charities, etc.) and being fleeced by schemers.

I've seen all of the above. Whatever route gets people into rough financial shape, the end result isn't pretty.
 
Keyword is SOME and not all are unemployable….some can work from home and bring in extra income .

the problem is this whole work from home thing has not been adopted yet as criteria for determining whether someone should either be given payments or kept on payments
 
on the other hand ssi offers little incentive to work .. they take away 50 cents of benefits for every dollar-over 85 dollars
I don't know if there are levels of disability. I guess it would depend on the disability whether or not earning a wage would be possible. But if possible & the person had the ability to perform a job, then I think that not applying would fall under fraud. I come to that conclusion because physically & mentally able can & do work regular jobs AND work part time. They pay taxes on those earnings which in turn pays for those that can but won't work.
 
I don't know if there are levels of disability. I guess it would depend on the disability whether or not earning a wage would be possible. But if possible & the person had the ability to perform a job, then I think that not applying would fall under fraud. I come to that conclusion because physically & mentally able can & do work regular jobs AND work part time. They pay taxes on those earnings which in turn pays for those that can but won't work.
...pays for those that can but won't work.

And tacitly allowing this situation is the very definition of a permissive society. It *permits* this to routinely take place.
 


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