Why do people argue over religion?

Same reason we disagree over most things, from religion, which medicare plan is best, which car... to which AI version might be better. We have selected one idea as our own... and we cannot be wrong. Therefore, we must defend it at all costs... or publicly admit we might be a bit wrong.

That's my opinion and by golly... I am sticking to my guns! 😉
 

Is arguing the same as engaging in conflict? How many wars have there been because of religion? The holy Wars and the Crusades, protestant, catholic wars. In the name of righteousness. A paradoxical conflict between holy and more holy.

Have you ever wondered why humans so easily forget tragedies and lessons learned to have history repeat itself over and over? We don’t learn from our past, hence we stagnate ourselves and the world because we refuse to grow. is it fear or just plain forgetfulness. It doesn’t matter because here we are again.
 

Mr. Ed said:
Is arguing the same as engaging in conflict? How many wars have there been because of religion? The holy Wars and the Crusades, protestant, catholic wars. In the name of righteousness. A paradoxical conflict between holy and more holy.

Have you ever wondered why humans so easily forget tragedies and lessons learned to have history repeat itself over and over? We don’t learn from our past, hence we stagnate ourselves and the world because we refuse to grow. is it fear or just plain forgetfulness. It doesn’t matter because here we are again.
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Just for balance, don't leave out Shia vs. Sunni! I agree, fanatics in the two major religions have caused a lot of harm! And I so agree, we forget too quickly and get into the same mess over and over again, only this time it is (in some quarters) Red vs. Blue!
 
Pepper said:
We're not arguing. We're discussing.
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The Bard AI output is a reasonable summary. Immediately some members considered the thread subject only to be:

Why do people emotionally argue over religion?

I liked how the AI summary ended with:

It is important to note that not all arguments about religion are negative. Some debates can lead to greater understanding and appreciation of different perspectives. However, it is also important to be aware of the potential for conflict and to approach such discussions with respect and civility.

The word "argue' has been hijacked by ordinary people that only ever use it in the sense of "emotional discussion". Basically to argue does not necessarily involve being emotional but rather debate between multiple persons. Lawyers do so quietly all the time in court. I used to unemotionally argue within engineering groups in group meetings about best ways to proceed with troubleshooting bugs.

A group of people entering a shopping mall may provide arguments to each other as to which store they ought go into first. If after some want to go right to a department store one says, "Let's go into this shoe store in front of us first, instead of walking back here from the department stores at the other mall side.", that is an argument and one where no one is emotional.

Generally some people cannot discuss even trivial subjects unemotionally when others have different views. Such people likely exist in social environments where most others are just like them...overly emotional whenever communicating. Very common in many families. But such behavior is often problematic in work environments. For instance, someone at a restaurant group lunch orders with a smile, a tuna fish sandwich. Another immature person emotionally relates he hates eating fish while being obviously angry at any others that disagree.
 
Old Salt said:
Aren't most of us like that? We all have our deeply held convictions and the older we get the more we cling to them! The challenge is to stay civilized and courteous despite our differences. Almost impossible to do in the present climate.
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I don't think so. I think when I was younger, I was more stuck on my opinions.

When I was a child, my mother's brother came to visit from Germany. We aren't supposed to be political so I won't mention who was president. I sure do remember though. My mother hated that president. My mother's brother said he was good. That was it. My mother threw him out of the house. I'm not joking. I think he stayed in a hotel. Came by the house one time again, returned to Germany and I don't know if they spoke again. My mother was a grand example. Let me tell you.
 
I think the problem is that so many do not understand the fundamental difference between knowing and believing. They are very often used interchangeably because of conviction, but they are not the same. Many things are universally known to anyone with a rational mind. For instance, If you put ice out in the hot sun with no protection, it will melt, or that if you walk naked in the rain, you will get wet, etc..., but many infer things from their perceptions that are corrupted by the pre-existing belief.

If they pray to God for someone to get well, and it happens, they interpret that as proof that God exists and it's something they "know" (Doctors and medicine won't get the credit). If that person doesn't get well, but dies, then it's interpreted that it just wasn't in God's will, so it doesn't disprove what they "know". If it always worked, there wouldn't be sick people in hospitals.

Does this type of belief mean a supreme being of some sort doesn't exist because it is based on faith? Absolutely not. It is an unknown. It is simply a conviction based on faith (A belief), and I find nothing wrong with that if it is not harming anyone else, and it brings comfort to someone, and who knows, they could even be right. It's just not something they can prove. JMO
 
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bobcat said:
I think the problem is that so many do not understand the fundamental difference between knowing and believing. The are very often used interchangeably because of conviction, but they are not the same. Many things are universally known to anyone with a rational mind. For instance, If you put ice out in the hot sun with no protection, it will melt, or that if you walk naked in the rain, you will get wet, etc..., but many infer things from their perceptions that are corrupted by the pre-existing belief.

If they pray to God for someone to get well, and it happens, they interpret that as proof that God exists and it's something they "know" (Doctors and medicine won't get the credit). If that person doesn't get well, but dies, then it's interpreted that it just wasn't in God's will, so it doesn't disprove what they "know". If it always worked, there wouldn't be sick people in hospitals.

Does this type of belief mean a supreme being of some sort doesn't exist because it is based on faith? Absolutely not. It is an unknown. It is simply a conviction based on faith (A belief), and I find nothing wrong with that if it is not harming anyone else, and it brings comfort to someone, and who knows, they could even be right. It's just not something they can prove. JMO
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What you are writing is rational and irrefutable. That's where remembrance of an inexplicable spiritual experience is helpful since I, by nature ... and to this day, would be inclined to reason the same as you!
 
bobcat said:
I think the problem is that so many do not understand the fundamental difference between knowing and believing....If they pray to God for someone to get well, and it happens, they interpret that as proof that God exists and it's something they "know" (Doctors and medicine won't get the credit). If that person doesn't get well, but dies, then it's interpreted that it just wasn't in God's will, so it doesn't disprove what they "know". If it always worked, there wouldn't be sick people in hospitals...
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The difference between knowing and believing can be a fine line. A belief that receives validation like seeing intelligent design of flora, fauna, birth, choices with natural consequences, no 2 faces alike, brains that build planes carrying 850 people above the clouds (Airbus A-380-800), etc ....is very convincing to a believer that there is intelligent design and intervention.

There are 3 types of answers to prayer. Yes, No, and Not yet. Some answers are immediate, some later in God's perfect timing. What we want is not always what we need, nor according to His will or perfect plan. When the answer comes you know it's from God by it's clarity. I can be totally confused about an answer I need, then an immediate perfect answer comes that has an indescribable clarity. That's not coincidence.

Example: I prayed for God to bring a certain Bible verse to mind I needed. His answer came when I wasn't thinking about it. I went to Costco (huge warehouse of everything under the sun) to do some random shopping...not for books. In the middle of the store was a long table full of books from every genre. Religious books was not something they usually carried.

One devotional book out of many caught my eye because it was colorful. It had maybe 100 pgs. I picked it up and just randomly opened to the middle. My earlier prayer wasn't on my mind but right at the top, in very large type, was this verse I asked Him for. The rest of the page was small type about the verse. Right there in the middle of that book at the top. I think it was Psalm 51:10-12. Just one small example of knowing vs just believing.
 
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I think the rancor about religions also stems from the religious organizations- priests, religious leaders, church heads, etc., who have a vested interest in perpetuating the religion. Another religion would be considered as "muscling in on their territory", and decreasing the religion's source of income.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I think the rancor about religions also stems from the religious organizations- priests, religious leaders, church heads, etc., who have a vested interest in perpetuating the religion. Another religion would be considered as "muscling in on their territory", and decreasing the religion's source of income.
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That, and the constant 'in your face' trying to covert you. Yeah, I live in the bible belt....
 
Lara said:
The difference between knowing and believing can be a fine line. A belief that receives validation via a whole network of things experienced by all our senses...seeing intelligent design of flora, fauna, birth, choices with natural consequences, no 2 faces alike, brains that build planes carrying 850 people above the clouds (Airbus A-380-800), etc ....is very convincing to a believer that there is divine intervention.

Answers to prayers aren't coincidental. There are 3 types of answers to prayer. Yes, No, and Not yet. Some are immediate, some later in God's perfect timing. What we want is not always what we need, nor according to His will or perfect plan. When the answer comes you know it's from God by it's clarity. I can be confused and clueless about an answer I need, then bam! A perfect answer comes that has an indescribable clarity.

Example: Nothing we ask is too small. I prayed for God to bring a certain memory verse to mind I needed. His answer came later that day when I went to Costco (huge warehouse of everything under the sun) to do some random shopping. In the middle of the store was a long table full of books from every genre. On this day they had a large amount of Bibles and and Daily Devotions. Not something they usually carried.

One devotional out of many caught my eye because it was colorful. It had maybe 100 pgs. I picked it up and opened to the middle. My earlier prayer wasn't on my mind but right at the top, in very large type, was this verse I asked Him for. The rest of the page was small type about the verse. Right there in the middle of that book at the top. I think it was Psalm 51:10-12. Just one small example of Knowing vs believing.
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Thank you Lara. It may come as a surprise to you, but I was a Christian for many years of my life. I even taught adult Bible study for years. So I am not clueless about how we interpret things, and the dynamics that confirm what we believe. Trust me when I say I have no desire whatsoever to dampen your convictions, and I doubt that would be possible anyway. I am quite familiar with the "God said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me" thought mode.

I could reveal many things to you from years of study about the brain, beliefs, and how the mind works, but I won't go there unless, of course you are a truth seeker, no matter where it leads. So I will just say that I am delighted that you have these convictions (Beliefs), but it doesn't change, but only reinforces, that people don't understand the difference between knowing and believing. Does it mean their beliefs can't be valid, or reality. The answer is no, it doesn't mean that at all. It just means it can't be verified or proven to others with a rational mind (aka, knowing). Please understand there is no disrespect here. I really am happy for you, and what it means to you.
 
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I do not argue about it , because I do not believe in any of it. If a person were to tell me their belief was the best ... OK, I hope it works best for them.

I was at a small motorcycle rally/meet several years back in Arkansas. There was an attending preacher there. Religion was discussed the last night on the deck. When it came around too me, I pretty much stated what I said in the above.

The next morning as we were all heading home, I sitting on my M/C ready to go .. the preacher came over to me , put his hand on my shoulder and asked if he could say a prayer for me before I embarked on my journey home. I said yeah sure . He did , patted my back, shook my hand and wished me a safe trip in a non-prayer manner & I pulled out.

He didn't try to push anything on me ... I felt his prayer was also a jesture of good tiddings for me .

I always appreciated it !

If the religious would just treat the rest of us in a similar manner .... and not try to bring us around .... some might actually come around ?
 
bobcat said:
...I could reveal many things to you from years of study about the brain, beliefs, and how the mind works, but I won't go there unless, of course you are a truth seeker, no matter where it leads.
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Isn't everyone a "truth seeker no matter where it leads"?
I don't recall meeting any "lie seekers" 😉
But I do feel I've already found the truth regarding my Creator.
I'm not saying I couldn't be wrong since there are many unanswered questions but I feel confident with my choice.
 
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fuzzybuddy said:
I think the rancor about religions also stems from the religious organizations- priests, religious leaders, church heads, etc., who have a vested interest in perpetuating the religion. Another religion would be considered as "muscling in on their territory", and decreasing the religion's source of income.
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This has not been my experience, @fuzzybuddy! With my colleagues and me (at least the ones I knew personally) it was never a question of being afraid of someone "muscling in on our territory," just a belief that we were right in our interpretation of Christianity! My view of what constitutes true Christianity has become more inclusive over the years and I now graciously think that other denominations might just be on the right path as well! :)
 
Lara said:
Isn't everyone a "truth seeker no matter where it leads"?
I don't recall meeting any "lie seekers" 😉
But I do feel I've already found the truth regarding my Creator.
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Ahhh, you see, that would seem to be a rational and reasonable statement, but in fact, it is false.
The vast majority live out their lives believing they know the truth, and are convinced they are right, but it's simply the way our brain functions to conserve energy. It takes far less energy to repair an existing house, than to tear it down and build a new one, so the brain takes the shortcut.

When you consider that there are more than 10,000 different religious beliefs alone, from Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Catholics, Protestants of all variations, Orthadox and many, many others, you see that the number of beliefs are indeed staggering. However, if you were to ask any one of them if they are certain their belief is correct, they will assure you that they are. Otherwise, why invest the time and effort, and therein lies the delusion.

Now, if you understand that there is likely only one reality, then guess how many billions of people are wrong about what they believe. Interestingly though, each one will believe that they are one of the exceptions, and all the others are wrong.

You will seldom discover truth unless you are willing to sacrifice your belief, and that rarely happens. Is it a bad thing, not necessarily. If it brings you satisfaction, joy, peace of mind, and it's not hurting anyone else, then why not. It doesn't really matter if it is, in fact, true. It serves a useful purpose. But that doesn't make you a truth seeker. it just means that everyone wants the truth, but only the truth they want.

Success in finding truth is dependent on willingness to sacrifice bias, and examine everything with an open mind. That is rarely the case. There are two ways to approach the matter. There is the detective way, and the lawyer way. The detective way turns over every rock and considers all evidence, and wherever it leads him, that will be the conclusion. The lawyer goes into the matter with a pre-determined conclusion, and will only look for evidence to prove his case, and will attempt to punch holes in whatever is contrary. Now, you would think that most would choose the former method, but alas, almost all choose the lawyer method. Most will change the truth before they will let it change them.

But, as I say, if taking a placebo pill makes your headache go away, does it really matter that it was inert?
 
oldaunt said:
That, and the constant 'in your face' trying to covert you. Yeah, I live in the bible belt....
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I agree that can be very annoying, @oldaunt! I always hoped that we would convert others to Christianity through our loving example and not through some scripture verses.

As @rpg stated so eloquently in post # 41, when talking about a loving gesture by a clergyman:

"If the religious would just treat the rest of us in a similar manner .... and not try to bring us around .... some might actually come around ?"
 
Believers trying to convert Non-believers into Believers = Non-believers trying to convert Believers into Non-believers

Since no one has complete proof either way...then that makes us all believers in our own beliefs.

We were created with the ability to make our own choices. As it should be. That's what God wants.

Scripture gives us all some good advice..."if someone doesn't want to hear your belief then walk away"
 

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